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-   -   Speculation: Who Stays-Marleau or Nabokov? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=782314)

JPavs8Clutchy* 06-01-2010 08:35 PM

Who Stays-Marleau or Nabokov?
 
The elite first line forward or the elite goalie? According to The Mercury News, only one will stay. (Link:http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/ci...014?source=rss). Here's how I look at it. They each probably want around 5-6 Mil in salary. They each are elite. Marleau is the franchise forward. Nabokov is the franchise goalie. Now, they both have the "choke" label. I think Marleau is actually clutch, and Nabokov's not. Nabokov has arguably done a bit more in his career than Marleau. They're both inconsistent to a lesser degree. I don't know how to make a poll. :( Although Nabokov has had a better career, right now is what matters, and Marleau was our MVP this year. I remember Nabokov stealing the following games: @Detroit in a shootout he had 50 saves. @Calgary he had 38 saves Vs. Detroit (In the Po's) in game 5, I have only "bean" watching January, so I don't remember much. He laid an egg in the olympics (Which I didn't really watch much of excluding the gold medal game(That sucked when Pavelski almost scored in OT and then he like missed it or Luongo saved it, I can't remember which)). Nabokov was awful in the 3rd round IMO. I know we had a few defensive breakdowns, but the Ladd goal? That was not the D's fault. Both goals in game 1? Buff's was questionable, but the bouncer is his fault. Marleau had the NHL goals lead for a long time, and a slump (I believe it may have had to do with injuries) cost him the lead. He also has been sound defensively. He was bad in round 1 of the PO's (Injuries are my personal suspect.), good in round 2 (Both goals were GWG's, but the primary assist on each was from MR. Assist, Joe Thornton. In round 3, he was the best player on either team, and almost became the first player since Joe Pavelski in 2010 to have 3 consecutive 2-goal games (2 Goals in Game 2, 2 Goals in Game 3, 1 in Game 4.)

My Vote: Patrick Marleau as long as he is willing to sign for under 6.5 Mil.

My Vote: Patty

BCShark 06-01-2010 09:01 PM

i want em both gone. i want a culture change in that locker room and i dont like both of their attitudes

Pinkfloyd 06-01-2010 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCShark (Post 26093097)
i want em both gone. i want a culture change in that locker room and i dont like both of their attitudes

The culture's not going to change until Joe Thornton and Doug Wilson are gone. We've seen many different cultures in the time that Marleau and Nabby have been there. They don't stop change. They go with it.

JPavs8Clutchy* 06-01-2010 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCShark (Post 26093097)
i want em both gone. i want a culture change in that locker room and i dont like both of their attitudes

What's wrong with Patty? I think he has a good, quiet attitude. He's not captain material. Too quiet, but he seems like he'd be a quiet player. Although I agree, I want to change a lot of the team. In the last 4-5 years, we haven't accomplished much. :( So I wouldn't mind a big rebuild. Not necessarily being the worst team in the league to draft a great player, but changing a lot of the players.

nbbyfan20 06-01-2010 09:10 PM

I can see some people are still bitter about the series loss.

Mhoogasian94123 06-01-2010 09:11 PM

marleau must stay
 
I agree with you. I want Patty to stay as long as he doesn't require us to pay toooooo much. I wonder if he'd take a slightly large HTD. If he doesn't I think we should trade his rights to get some picks. If we don't resign we should trade Nabby for picks. It's what would be best for us. I was hoping the Sharks could get both to take super HTD's but that's what will probably not happen. I just want the Sharks to get something out of whoever they might lose.

Pinkfloyd 06-01-2010 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mhoogasian94123 (Post 26093240)
I agree with you. I want Patty to stay as long as he doesn't require us to pay toooooo much. I wonder if he'd take a slightly large HTD. If he doesn't I think we should trade his rights to get some picks. If we don't resign we should trade Nabby for picks. It's what would be best for us. I was hoping the Sharks could get both to take super HTD's but that's what will probably not happen. I just want the Sharks to get something out of whoever they might lose.

Their rights are not going to get traded. They still have active NTC's and as long as DW is true to his words with regards to the clauses, he will not move either.

Rickety Cricket 06-01-2010 09:16 PM

Both are staying and I have merged them into Markov.

The Nemesis 06-01-2010 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket (Post 26093338)
Both are staying and I have merged them into Markov.

Andrei or Danny?

baydrake 06-01-2010 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nemesis (Post 26093399)
Andrei or Danny?

Evrick.

also, if SJ drafts Kabanov but lets Nabby walk they can re-use the jersey letters (if only it were kobanov or kabonov)

matt trick 06-01-2010 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCShark (Post 26093097)
i want em both gone. i want a culture change in that locker room and i dont like both of their attitudes

I can't understand how anyone would want Marleau gone. I could care less about his attitude (although I think it has been nothing short of admirable). Could you please elaborate in further detail about why you wouldn't want Marleau back?

It's not like he can be replaced, and only Zetterberg (by one), Drury, and Recchi have more playoff goals among active players.

The list of players who have consistently been elite playoff performers is pretty much limited to Zetterberg, Franzen, Alfredsson, Elias, Drury, Reechi, B. Richards, and Briere. Crosby, Ovechkin, Toews, Mike Richards, Getzlaf, Staal and Malkin have proven themselves with at least one very long run, while St. Louis and Iginla had one incredibly dominant year, but have (I think) failed to make it past round one otherwise.

Marleau is in the next tier with Gomez, Gionta, Hossa, Langenbrunner, Havlat, Koivu, Spezza, Heatley and randomly Kovalev.
Find me a player who will be available that is worth losing Marleau over.

The list of those players that may be available is likely Gomez, Langenbrunner (who is only potentially available due to supposed locker-room issues and poor team playoff performance), St. Louis (cost a fortune for a UFA to be, but still I'd consider), Drury (hell no), and Kovalev (hell no). There really is no solution to improving the team if Marleau is lost.

baydrake 06-01-2010 09:43 PM

if DW is unwilling or unable to retain marleau for money reasons, st. louis is in fact one guy whose actual salary is less than his cap hit ($4m cash, 5.25 cap)

hm... who else? just throwing these out there, dunno if they're available or good picks:

vanek ($6.4m cash, 7.14 cap)
gomez ($6.375m cash, 7.36 cap) - doubtful
drury ($6.5m cash, 7.05 cap) - lol
elias ($5m cash, 6 cap) - over the hill?
rozsival ($3.5m cash, 5 cap) - haven't seen him play recently
spezza ($6.6m cash, 7 cap) - fat chance
fisher ($3.67m cash, 4.2 cap)
briere ($5.2m cash, 6.5 cap)
hartnell ($3.7m cash, 4.2 cap)
timonen ($5m cash, 6.33 cap)
malone ($3.9m cash, 4.5 cap)
smyth ($5m cash, 6.25 cap) - he got that much? :amazed:

might take a flyer on st louis, vanek, fisher (doubtful, ottawa loves him from what i've seen on the boards), or the philly guys but obviously would prefer just to re-sign patty

matt trick 06-01-2010 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baydrake (Post 26093706)
if DW is unwilling or unable to retain marleau for money reasons, st. louis is in fact one guy whose actual salary is less than his cap hit ($4m cash, 5.25m cap)

Even if we keep Marleau, I want them going after St. Louis:
Heatley-Thornton-Setoguchi/St. Louis
Marleau-Pavelski-Clowe/St. Louis
McGinn-Malhotra-Couture

Didn't realize his salary was front-loaded. So much the better. Also, I think the list of team's he'd waive for is short (San Jose, Vancouver, Philly, Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh). I guarantee Setoguchi gets them more interested than anything any of those teams could offer. None of them can hand them a top line forward to play with Stamkos for the next decade. Setoguchi may not be an ideal fit, but he is pretty close (for instance I can think of Perron as a guy who would be better).

Gilligans Island 06-01-2010 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd (Post 26093280)
Their rights are not going to get traded. They still have active NTC's and as long as DW is true to his words with regards to the clauses, he will not move either.

I could see a scenario where if it's mutually agreed to part ways in a respectful way (say Nabby) and that player finds out the team he desires to go to will offer a fair salary, then DW and player agree to a trade before July 1st for a mid round pick.

Flicktron 06-01-2010 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCShark (Post 26093097)
i want em both gone. i want a culture change in that locker room and i dont like both of their attitudes

I'm not in the locker room but from what I've heard and seen after practices, he's one of the quietest guys on the team. He's well liked among everyone on the team and everyone respects him. He works hard, and leads by example.

Nabby though, I like him, but I don't. He does get arrogant at times.

Oiler Lover 06-01-2010 10:01 PM

I would want Patty to stay. Nabby let in too many soft goals in the playoffs.

Rickety Cricket 06-01-2010 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nemesis (Post 26093399)
Andrei or Danny?

The good one.

goalsversusthreshold* 06-01-2010 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt trick (Post 26093749)
Even if we keep Marleau, I want them going after St. Louis:
Heatley-Thornton-Setoguchi/St. Louis
Marleau-Pavelski-Clowe/St. Louis
McGinn-Malhotra-Couture

Didn't realize his salary was front-loaded. So much the better. Also, I think the list of team's he'd waive for is short (San Jose, Vancouver, Philly, Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh). I guarantee Setoguchi gets them more interested than anything any of those teams could offer. None of them can hand them a top line forward to play with Stamkos for the next decade. Setoguchi may not be an ideal fit, but he is pretty close (for instance I can think of Perron as a guy who would be better).

What if Thornton steps on St. Louis though? :dunno:

Pinkfloyd 06-01-2010 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilligans Island (Post 26093780)
I could see a scenario where if it's mutually agreed to part ways in a respectful way (say Nabby) and that player finds out the team he desires to go to will offer a fair salary, then DW and player agree to a trade before July 1st for a mid round pick.

I, unfortunately, do not. Doug Wilson simply will not ask Nabby to waive his clause and Nabby nor his agent will discuss potential destinations in the light you describe as that will be viewed as tampering by DW and he won't like that too much.

Gilligans Island 06-01-2010 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd (Post 26094007)
I, unfortunately, do not. Doug Wilson simply will not ask Nabby to waive his clause and Nabby nor his agent will discuss potential destinations in the light you describe as that will be viewed as tampering by DW and he won't like that too much.

Fair enough - that's your view.

I think you're taking DW a little too literally (if that's the right way to put it). Last summer, when Heater turned down the Oilers offer, it was reported (I believe) because the Sharks were interested but wanted to let the Sens pay the $4m bonus to Heater. DW didn't "tamper" directly but he certainly didn't stop any mutual friends/acquaintance from passing along the Sharks interest.

I agree - doubt it happens but moreso b/c if Nabby (or Patty) walks, I bet they will mull multiple offers come July 1st so DW wouldn't be in a position to arrange for a trade of their rights.

Pinkfloyd 06-01-2010 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilligans Island (Post 26094073)
Fair enough - that's your view.

I think you're taking DW a little too literally (if that's the right way to put it). Last summer, when Heater turned down the Oilers offer, it was reported (I believe) because the Sharks were interested but wanted to let the Sens pay the $4m bonus to Heater. DW didn't "tamper" directly but he certainly didn't stop any mutual friends/acquaintance from passing along the Sharks interest.

I agree - doubt it happens but moreso b/c if Nabby (or Patty) walks, I bet they will mull multiple offers come July 1st so DW wouldn't be in a position to arrange for a trade of their rights.

Showing interest in the trade market when a player has openly said he wants to be dealt is slightly different than a potential UFA and their destination. Only because there should be some discussion about his return and I don't think being spurned and asked to be dealt elsewhere is a sound way to keep negotiations smooth.

matt trick 06-01-2010 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd (Post 26094116)
Showing interest in the trade market when a player has openly said he wants to be dealt is slightly different than a potential UFA and their destination. Only because there should be some discussion about his return and I don't think being spurned and asked to be dealt elsewhere is a sound way to keep negotiations smooth.

What Doug could do is give the players permission to talk to other teams to get a sense of what their market is, and if it is say 3.7 for Nabby and 6.25 for marleau maybe they decide they are better off getting a little less, and keeping almost the entire team together.
With that said, as much as I have enjoyed Nabby's career with San Jose, he will likely get offers in the 5 mill range from a desperate team (I would have bet on Tampa pre-Stevie-Y) and I don't think he would turn that down for what will likely be way less from San Jose.

Tealblood 06-01-2010 10:39 PM

Sadly I think either way we go we're pretty screwed. I don't trust our goalies even if we had lidstrom in front of them, and I don't trust seto to replace marleau any time soon.

Nabby's 40 wins are underrated on these boards. We'll be lucky to be .500 with greiss and some noname minor leaguer considering the crap D we've got in front of them.

I like our forward depth more than I like our goalie depth. Thornton can make most guys a ton better, heck look what he did to cheechoo, perhaps it is time for us to lose marleau. I don't think that's the way to go if we want to win the cup but it guarantees us playoffs.

keep Nabby: get to playoffs, but let softies in once playoffs start, plus he'll have even less goal support. Oh and he's getting old.

keep marleau: possibly miss playoffs w/o nabby, but if greiss or other randoms turn into heroes we can squeeze into 8th and get ourselves a cheap playoff hero.

I hate both options.

goalsversusthreshold* 06-01-2010 10:40 PM

I wish I were Marleau's agent so when I got an offer from a team I could say "My client and I consider that a little Marleau if you get my drift"

matt trick 06-01-2010 10:47 PM

In response to Guitarbyte, this is IMO, the worst case scenario involving Marleau staying and Nabby walking:

Marleau (7)- Thornton (7.2)- Heatley (7.5)
Clowe (3.625)- Pavelski (4.5)- Setoguchi (3.5)
McGinn (.996)- Malhotra (1.3)- Couture (1.3)
Ortmeyer (.6)- Nichol (.85)- Mitchell (1.367)

Boyle (6.67)- Murray (2.5)
Vlasic (3.1)- Huskins (1.7)
Demers (.563)-Moore (.5125)

Greiss (.55)
Karlsson (1.0)

Not sure that team misses the playoffs, and that assumes every single one of the players who return are overpaid by .5-1.5 million. Go cheap on Setoguchi, replace Huskins with Blake, and go a bit more reasonable on Marleau/Pavelski you can upgrade the forwards, or more importantly the D. Add in a 2 million increase in the cap, and the team can add a top 4 blue-liner via trade or signing.


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