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The Fuhr* 05-17-2004 10:11 AM

Ottawa-washington Proposal
 
To Washington: Martin Havlat

To Ottawa: 1st overall pick and either Witt/Sutherby

Would this be a fair trade?

TVanek26* 05-17-2004 10:17 AM

Heh, it sure as hell won't be Detroit's pick for Havlat....Drop Witt and make it first overall for Havlat and a 2nd.

txpd 05-17-2004 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Heh, it sure as hell won't be Detroit's pick for Havlat....Drop Witt and make it first overall for Havlat and a 2nd.

You think that Ovechkin for Havlat is overpaying on the Senators part??? good god.... :bonk:

Classic Devil 05-17-2004 10:26 AM

No, Ottawa gets the short end here, bigtime.

Edit : Actually, I didn't see "overall." An interesting proposal, but Ottawa has no need for Ovechkin when they already have the more proven Havlat, so no deal.

McDonald19 05-17-2004 10:27 AM

I don't see the Capitals doing this.

TVanek26* 05-17-2004 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McDonald19
I don't see the Capitals doing this.


If they drop Witt and Ottawa adds their 1st (If they have one,it's pretty fair)

Marshall 05-17-2004 10:38 AM

I think part of the problem is that Witt is the only decent, veteran NHL-quality defenseman the Caps have. He's affordable. I don't see the Caps giving him up.

txpd 05-17-2004 10:42 AM

what am i missing here? Ovechkin, called the best draftable player since mario lemieux, for Martin Havlat, 21g, 24g, 31g the last three years. there is no way that washington is going to do that deal.

Mizral 05-17-2004 10:51 AM

What exactly makes Havlat the best player in the league all of a sudden? Not saying Ovechkin is god almighty (certainly not the best prospects since Lemieux..), Ovechkin has 'franchise player' ability, whereas Havlat is a above average 2nd line right winger with a recent history of contract disputes. The 1st overall pick for Havlat alone is a pretty terrible trade for Washington.

sparkplug 05-17-2004 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
What exactly makes Havlat the best player in the league all of a sudden? Not saying Ovechkin is god almighty (certainly not the best prospects since Lemieux..), Ovechkin has 'franchise player' ability, whereas Havlat is a above average 2nd line right winger with a recent history of contract disputes. The 1st overall pick for Havlat alone is a pretty terrible trade for Washington.

I respectfully disagree. I've seen Havlat play quite abit and I do think he IS firstline winger material and a possible potential franchise player (talentwise, not leadership wise). I don't think Havlat gets enough credit being on a team stacked on the RW but he is an incredible player and I wouldn't be surprised if he hit the 80 points mark next year. Even if he doesn't, think of the other RWs he has to contend for icetime with and it's understandable. I think there's a very good chance Havlat becomes a better player than Ovechkin. In fact, I think Washington would be really happy if Ovechkin works out as well as Havlat did (minus the contract disputes). That said, this trade will never happy. Washington is rebuilding and I think they'd take the younger player with more potential (at this point). Ottawa's not going to move Havlat unless he sits out for a trade, demands a HUGE raise, or the other team overpays. I think this deal is slightly tilted in Washington's direction, but it's one that help go towards neither of the teams' goals very much. (Ottawa's goal right now is a cup, Washington's is to rebuild.)

Hossa 05-17-2004 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
What exactly makes Havlat the best player in the league all of a sudden? Not saying Ovechkin is god almighty (certainly not the best prospects since Lemieux..), Ovechkin has 'franchise player' ability, whereas Havlat is a above average 2nd line right winger with a recent history of contract disputes. The 1st overall pick for Havlat alone is a pretty terrible trade for Washington.

Not quite sure what makes Havlat an "above average 2nd line right winger." I mean he scored a point a game, something not many players were able to do last year, as the third best RW on his team. Regardless of who Havlat was playing with, Hossa and Alfie were always ahead of him on the depth chart. Yet, he still put up a point a game and may have been the best player on the league's best offence in the second half of the season. IMO, that makes him a first liner, because in this day and age, a point per game player is a first liner. Studs such as Jarome Iginla and Joe Thornton didn't score a point a game. Vincent Lecavalier had fewer points than Havlat despite playing 13 more games.

Now I'm not saying Ovechkin for Havlat makes sense. In reality, it's stupid both ways. Same way Caps fans would rather Ovechkin than Spezza. It's just that right now Ovechkin is the big cheese. He's the guy everybody wants to talk about, so you have to make trade offers with him in there. Very, very few teams could go out and get that pick, but Ottawa is one of them (Atlanta is another....). Never mind the Sens are a Cup contender rather than a team at the start of a rebuilding program.

The point is though, that Ottawa takes one step back in making this trade. They may or may not take another few steps forward because of it, but Ovechkin's potential is to be a stud in this league, Havlat is already much closer. Havlat is a first line player right now, Ovechkin could be. Even if Ovechkin's potential is higher, Havlat's closer and thus it makes no sense for the Sens to do that swap, even if Washington wouldn't want to either.

YellHockey* 05-17-2004 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
Havlat is a above average 2nd line right winger with a recent history of contract disputes.

How many 1st line right wingers in the league do you think there are? 5?

And doesn't someone have to have more then one contract dispute in order to have contract disputes?

Drake1588 05-17-2004 12:37 PM

Rather than get into an argument between fans of rival teams... let's leave it at Washington from its current rebuilding perspective would probably prefer to gamble on Ovechkin, while an Ottawa team gunning for a Cup Finals berth would prefer to keep its young veteran scorer for that run, rather than give him up for an 18-year-old prodigy.

If Havlat is dealt, which could conceivably happen between now and the next season of NHL play, whenever that may be, I have to think it would be for an older, not younger, scoring forward with some grit and playoff experience.

SabresRule 05-17-2004 12:45 PM

Ditch Witt, add a 2nd from Ottawa. at least.

maybe even Halvat + Bonk for Washington to think about giving up their 1st. from their POV.

EJsens1 05-17-2004 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresRule
maybe even Halvat + Bonk for Washington to think about giving up their 1st. from their POV.

You really think that Ottawa is going to give up that much for Ovechkin??? I bet Washington makes that trade for sure.

BIGTRAIN* 05-17-2004 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craven Morehead
You really think that Ottawa is going to give up that much for Ovechkin??? I bet Washington makes that trade for sure.

Have been on vacation one week and it is silly season all over again >> That trade will not be made from washingtons stand point because it is totally one sided Ottawa's side >> People who seem to want washington to give up the first pick in the draft DO NOT understand that for washington to trade it the other team will have to offer a kings ransom >> You may not like it but that is how it is and how it will be >> So if you think your team wants or needs that pick make over the top offers or none at all >>>

WHAT MAKE YOU ALL THINK THAT THE CAPS WILL MOVE OVECHKIN ANYWAY AND FOR SUCH A SMALL PRICE ?? Stop thinking for your teams end and look at it from the caps side >>>> If you were the caps gm would you make that or any or the proposed trades for Ovechkin that have been mentioned and if you would justify your reasons from the caps position >>>>>

EJsens1 05-17-2004 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGTRAIN
Have been on vacation one week and it is silly season all over again >> That trade will not be made from washingtons stand point because it is totally one sided Ottawa's side >> People who seem to want washington to give up the first pick in the draft DO NOT understand that for washington to trade it the other team will have to offer a kings ransom >> You may not like it but that is how it is and how it will be >> So if you think your team wants or needs that pick make over the top offers or none at all >>>

WHAT MAKE YOU ALL THINK THAT THE CAPS WILL MOVE OVECHKIN ANYWAY AND FOR SUCH A SMALL PRICE ?? Stop thinking for your teams end and look at it from the caps side >>>> If you were the caps gm would you make that or any or the proposed trades for Ovechkin that have been mentioned and if you would justify your reasons from the caps position >>>>>

Totally one sided in Ottawa's favour??? How so??? Because you say so??? I didn't say Washington wanted to give up their 1st overall pick, I have no clue what their intentions are. But if Havlat and Bonk were put on the table for it, I think McPhee would consider it. Make over the top offers why??? Nobody knows how good Ovechkin will be. If you think teams are going to offer up some Lindros type draft day deal from 12 years ago, you would be setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm not sure if Ovechkin is a winger or center, but I think he is a winger, and wingers aren't the types you build your team around I find. Its usually a centre or defencemen or goalie. If he is a centre, I recant that last statement. Ovechkin could be awesome, no doubt about that, but I wouldn't bet the farm on the guy, not yet. Spare me the best prospect since Lemieux crap as well. I've heard that with Lindros, Thornton, Kovalchuk, Spezza and already Sidney Crosby. That's a term that is being thrown around to loosely. All good players, but not even remotely close to Lemieux.

BIGTRAIN* 05-17-2004 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craven Morehead
Totally one sided in Ottawa's favour??? How so??? Because you say so??? I didn't say Washington wanted to give up their 1st overall pick, I have no clue what their intentions are. But if Havlat and Bonk were put on the table for it, I think McPhee would consider it. Make over the top offers why??? Nobody knows how good Ovechkin will be. If you think teams are going to offer up some Lindros type draft day deal from 12 years ago, you would be setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm not sure if Ovechkin is a winger or center, but I think he is a winger, and wingers aren't the types you build your team around I find. Its usually a centre or defencemen or goalie. If he is a centre, I recant that last statement. Ovechkin could be awesome, no doubt about that, but I wouldn't bet the farm on the guy, not yet. Spare me the best prospect since Lemieux crap as well. I've heard that with Lindros, Thornton, Kovalchuk, Spezza and already Sidney Crosby. That's a term that is being thrown around to loosely. All good players, but not even remotely close to Lemieux.

First Ovechkin can play all foward position >> What value has bonk to washington ????? NONE >>>> If not team wants to pay the price to get him he stays in washington and becomes the first franchise player the caps have had >> And Lemieux is not as good as gretzky and never will be >>>> No one with the first pick will make a trade unless it it over the top >>>

CapitalsCupFantasy 05-17-2004 02:32 PM

Not if I'm the Caps GM
 
Caps want young, cheap players. Bonk (28), not young, not cheap ($3.5mill). Havlat (23-24), great talent, but I'd rather take the 18 yr old superstar in the making. $$ wise Havlat makes what $400k more than Ovechkin will. That's a starting dman for the Caps. A bad one but a dman.

I would consider Spezza and a 1st for Ovechkin, that's about it. Who knows how playing with the stars that Ottawa has in the lineup has inflated the offensive #'s of Havlat? The Caps are comitted to fielding a team of very young core players. The thought of Zubrus, Ovechkin, and Semin playing together for the next 5-10 years makes me very happy as a Caps fan. Fact is...for Washington to maintain any credibilty with the remaining fan base, someone will have to overpay bigtime to get Ovechkin.

Other Dave 05-17-2004 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craven Morehead
Totally one sided in Ottawa's favour??? How so??? Because you say so???

No, because I say so.

Other Dave 05-17-2004 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanwon
Fact is...for Washington to maintain any credibilty with the remaining fan base, someone will have to overpay bigtime to get Ovechkin.

Which brings us to the point: Ottawa is not interested in overpaying for anything, and isn't interested in any picks that may or may not pan out but which will certainly take two to three years to start paying off.

V for Voodoo 05-17-2004 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanwon
Caps want young, cheap players. Bonk (28), not young, not cheap ($3.5mill). Havlat (23-24), great talent, but I'd rather take the 18 yr old superstar in the making. $$ wise Havlat makes what $400k more than Ovechkin will.

Not to nitpick, but if Ovechkin is really to turn into that 'superstar' you envision to be, his first contract will easily pay him up to $4-5M per year when you include the bonuses, which is about as much as Havlat and Bonk make together.

V for Voodoo 05-17-2004 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hossa
Not quite sure what makes Havlat an "above average 2nd line right winger."

Mizral has always had major Havlat envy. :D

BIGTRAIN* 05-17-2004 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo
Not to nitpick, but if Ovechkin is really to turn into that 'superstar' you envision to be, his first contract will easily pay him up to $4-5M per year when you include the bonuses, which is about as much as Havlat and Bonk make together.

Havlat & Bonk are not equal to Ovechkin >>>>> No trade thank you>>>>

Hossa 05-17-2004 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGTRAIN
Havlat & Bonk are not equal to Ovechkin >>>>> No trade thank you>>>>

Well....Havlat scored a point a game at 22 years old. That's a pretty significant accomplishment in this league. Bonk may not fit in with the team's plan, but he's still a very good player. I don't know if the caps would take Havlat for Ovechkin, but Ovechkin has proven nothing to this point to justify being better than Havlat.


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