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glenngineer 06-12-2010 11:02 AM

Are we a better team if......
 
With the draft and free agency coming up and many unanswered questions, what moves will make us better for the upcoming season and the near future?

If we stand pat with the roster we have now and re-sign Hornqvist, Franson and Boyd, we lose a lot of blue line talent. We'd end up losing Hamhuis who's a big minute eater and a pretty good 2nd pair guy. We'd also lose Grebs who we gave up a 2nd round pick for. We'd also lose Bouillon who was a good veteran presence on the blue line.

If we want to keep Hamhuis and/or Grebs, salary is going to be needed to be traded away. Although they have NMC's, the comments made about Arnott and Dumont may have been put out there to maybe push them out of the organization. If they are acceptable to being moved, that would free up $9.5 million in salary. Team that with about the $2-3 million we have now to re-sign guys and I think we can re-sign Hamhuis and/or Grebs, while taking care of of Hornqvist, Franson and Boyd.

So the real question becomes are we a better team with Hamhuis and Grebs on the blueline while losing Arnott and Dumont up front or are we better if we keep Arnott and Dumont and go with youth on the blue line? Realistically, Arnott is gone after next year anyway and Dumont is gone in two years while Hamhuis and Grebs would probably be signed for 3-4 years each. While some claim we can't afford to pay 2nd pairing guys big money, who would we rather have getting that money, vets who are on the decline or guys just hitting their prime?

If Arnott and Dumont are jettisoned, we'd look something like this up front:

Legwand, Wilson, Goc and Smithson at center

Wings would be:

Sullivan, Hornqvist, Erat, Ward, Tootoo, Spaling, Boyd, O'Reilly, Belak and basically some competition in camp from guys like Thuresson, Santorelli, Anderson and Geoffrion.

The blue line would look a lot like this:

Weber, Suter, Hamhuis, Grebs, Klein and Franson with Sulzer or Blum as the number 7 or floater between here and Milwaukee.

Obviously Rinne in net with a veteran back up.

If we lose the defensemen our lineup is more like this.

Arnott, Legwand, Goc and Smithson at center.

Wings would be:

Sullivan, Hornqvist, Erat, Wilson, Dumont, Ward, Tootoo, Spaling, Boyd, O'Reilly and Belak at wing.

The blue line would look like this:

Weber, Suter, Klein, Franson and some combo of Blum, Sulzer, Laakso and even possibly Yonkman.

Once again Rinne in net and a veteran backup.

While the second lineup has a bunch more firepower up front, the blue line weakness really scares me. The first lineup lacks the firepower but has a much more stable blue line. The first lineup would signal more of a youth movement and turn the team over to guys like Weber, Suter, Hornqvist, Wilson and to a degree Legwand and Erat with Sully being the elder statesmen. Really tough because Arnott and Dumont would have to agree to any trades of course so a lot of this depends on them.

Maybe something is done in between these moves where we keep one of Arnott and Dumont and re-sign Hammer or Grebs but not both. That may give us the best of both worlds, still some good fire power up front while keeping the core of the blue line together.

Enoch 06-12-2010 11:38 AM

In my opinion, losing Dumont at this point will not hurt us in any way. If Dumont was on a top line, a trade would weaken this team. Considering he is on the third and fourth line, his removal would actually probably benefit the lower lines cohesivness.

Arnott would be a loss if we couldn't find a replacement, and this year I actually do not expect him to match his salary. Still, to just arbitrarily remove him would hurt the offense if no one was brought in to replace him.

If you keep Hammer, we are better off than if we kept Grebs. If you keep both, while only losing Dumont - we are a better team. If they both come at the expense of Dumont AND Arnott, then we need to make sure we are bringing in another scorer for our top 6. Then again, Poile may just shift Wilson back to center ......

Sullivan - Wilson - Hornqvist
ward - Legwand - Erat

...... We could do better, especially in Ward's case. Still, if Wilson emerges, Hornqvist maintains, and we see more of the stretch Erat/PO Legwand, our offense will be adequate.

Que Sera Sera 06-12-2010 12:00 PM

I voted for the third option, but I would like to sign both Hammer and Grebs- but keep Grebs on a very short leash. He was awful with the Oil this year and I had a good view of most of it.

Soundgarden 06-12-2010 12:16 PM

I feel like we will be trading Dumont, Trotz even said he doesn't expect him to get more ice time then this past season, so I think we'll trade him and re-sign Grebs and Cube.

BigFatCat999 06-12-2010 12:38 PM

Trade Dumont, O'reilly and look into seeing what interest there is in the 1st rounder. Sign Grebs and re-sign Bouillon. Once this is done, trade Sulzer. Cycle in Blum and Laakso when there is injuries in the defense.

lightning_legwand* 06-12-2010 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundgarden (Post 26257920)
I feel like we will be trading Dumont, Trotz even said he doesn't expect him to get more ice time then this past season, so I think we'll trade him and re-sign Grebs and Cube.

lol, who is cube?

Soundgarden 06-12-2010 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightning_legwand (Post 26259439)
lol, who is cube?

Boullion, it's basically soup in cube form.

lightning_legwand* 06-12-2010 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundgarden (Post 26259623)
Boullion, it's basically soup in cube form.

hahaha!! ok I get it now! lol

PredsV82 06-12-2010 03:53 PM

I picked option 3. But I think the only viable options are trade Dumont and sign Grebs.

Hammer is going to be looking for too much money for too many years.

Grebs, on the other hand, would probably take a two year deal and probably would take less than the 3 mil he was making, or if worse came to worse we would just qualify him at 3.15 mil for one year.

Paranoid Android 06-12-2010 05:08 PM

This is a quote from Dumont at the end of the season, before his final meeting with the staff. Just thought I'd throw this out there

Quote:

"No, right now I'm not thinking about (a trade),'' Dumont said. "I want to know what's going on, that's for sure. But my goal when I signed here is to be here for four years. We love it here, my family and stuff like that. So (a trade is) definitely not on my mind."
Of course anything can still happen, but it doesn't sound good from this.

adsfan 06-12-2010 05:19 PM

Trade Dumont and re-sign Hamhuis.

predfan24 06-12-2010 05:47 PM

Trade Arnott and resign Grebs if you can get a good price.

glenngineer 06-12-2010 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predanerd (Post 26261522)
This is a quote from Dumont at the end of the season, before his final meeting with the staff. Just thought I'd throw this out there



Of course anything can still happen, but it doesn't sound good from this.


I remember him saying that too but was that before or after Trotz made his comments that his minutes would be about the same as they were this year?

codeyh 06-12-2010 08:23 PM

JP Dumont - Known Clauses: NMC
Good luck trading him.

C'mon guys, I love the hypothetical threads and all, but be realistic.

glenngineer 06-12-2010 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeyh (Post 26263302)
JP Dumont - Known Clauses: NMC
Good luck trading him.

C'mon guys, I love the hypothetical threads and all, but be realistic.

Then why does Trotz make the comments he made after the season? Would you be happy if you're Dumont knowing your minutes will be limited again and be placed on the third or fourth line if you still think you have top 6 talent? I know I'd want to be out on the ice playing more than that. If he's not going to get that chance here, and it's been stated as such, why wouldn't he ask to be traded? JP is a classy guy as are Poile and Trotz. I have a funny feeling they're working on this leading up to the draft and free agency period to allow all of this to transpire. Just because guys have NTC's and NMC's doesn't mean they can't or won't be moved.

PredsV82 06-12-2010 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeyh (Post 26263302)
JP Dumont - Known Clauses: NMC
Good luck trading him.

C'mon guys, I love the hypothetical threads and all, but be realistic.

I am realistic. I think JP has all but been told he's gonna be on the thrid line or worse from here on out. If he hopes to get a decent contract after this one he's gonna want to be playing on a higher line somewhere. I will not be a bit surprised if JP asks for a trade this summer, but doesnt waive his NMC until he finds out where he might go.

I dont, however, think Arnott is being shopped nor would he want to move.

glenngineer 06-12-2010 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PredsV82 (Post 26264484)
I am realistic. I think JP has all but been told he's gonna be on the thrid line or worse from here on out. If he hopes to get a decent contract after this one he's gonna want to be playing on a higher line somewhere. I will not be a bit surprised if JP asks for a trade this summer, but doesnt waive his NMC until he finds out where he might go.

I dont, however, think Arnott is being shopped nor would he want to move.

I think if we can dump Dumont and re-sign Grebs we'll be ok. As much as I'm not a fan of Arnott, he is a big body that when healthy can put up points and carry a team for small stretches at a time. Dumont is more of a playmaker and we have enough of those. Arnott is more of a goal scorer.

If we were able to dump Dumont, we could re-sign Grebs for his qualifying offer if he's up to it and gain about $1 million in cap space. That would help in re-upping Hornqvist, Franson and Boyd.

lstcyr 06-13-2010 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PredsV82 (Post 26264484)
I think JP has all but been told he's gonna be on the thrid line or worse from here on out. If he hopes to get a decent contract after this one he's gonna want to be playing on a higher line somewhere.

Or he could start the season off well, show Trotz he's back to what he was, and I guarantee he'll be playing first or second line again.

Maybe Trotz was just trying to motivate him to play better?

quoth the Raven 06-13-2010 06:07 PM

I don't know about the others, but I don't think Arnott is going anywhere this season. I think he'll play one more year here and then move or retire.

PredsV82 06-13-2010 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstcyr (Post 26273164)
Or he could start the season off well, show Trotz he's back to what he was, and I guarantee he'll be playing first or second line again.

Maybe Trotz was just trying to motivate him to play better?

well, maybe.

But we have at least 7 players who realistically should be on the top two lines so if he's stuck on a line with Tootoo and Spaling or Smithson Im not sure how hes going to show Trotz much

BigFatCat999 06-13-2010 07:25 PM

My question is this, is there a possibility of 3 scoring lines? O'Reilly and Dumont can potentially be 2/3rd of a scoring line. Problem is that the trade market might be saturated with Chicago forwards to make trading Dumont and O'Reilly difficult.

(Unless Chicago finds a way to trade Hossa and Huet which might actually be possible)

MarkMM 06-13-2010 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeyh (Post 26263302)
JP Dumont - Known Clauses: NMC
Good luck trading him.

C'mon guys, I love the hypothetical threads and all, but be realistic.

NTC/NMC's are waived many times, it just gives the player the power to pick and choose whether they like the destination or not.

For me, I think the challenge may be finding a team that he wants to be moved to that also is willing to take on his salary at his level of performance. Same with Arnott.

That said, I vote in order Options 1, 3, then 2.

glenngineer 06-19-2010 02:23 PM

Well, it looks like either option 3 is the only viable one at this point but Grebs could still walk. I have a funny feeling Poile is going to re-sign Grebs, Hornqvist, Franson, Boyd and Parent. Dumont should be here next year as well and will be moved back to one of the top two lines. I could also see Franson being moved for some help up front.

Paranoid Android 06-19-2010 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenngineer (Post 26366255)
Well, it looks like either option 3 is the only viable one at this point but Grebs could still walk. I have a funny feeling Poile is going to re-sign Grebs, Hornqvist, Franson, Boyd and Parent. Dumont should be here next year as well and will be moved back to one of the top two lines. I could also see Franson being moved for some help up front.

My thoughts exactly.

deanwormer 06-19-2010 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenngineer (Post 26366255)
Well, it looks like either option 3 is the only viable one at this point but Grebs could still walk. I have a funny feeling Poile is going to re-sign Grebs, Hornqvist, Franson, Boyd and Parent. Dumont should be here next year as well and will be moved back to one of the top two lines. I could also see Franson being moved for some help up front.

Did Boyd show enough to warrant that, or is he just redundant of other guys we have that have come up through Milw? I guess I'd have the same question about moving Franson - could we get something for him that wasn't just redundant of the guys we already have?


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