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-   -   Proposal: With the departure of scotty, this is what i propose... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=789823)

defer* 06-23-2010 12:12 AM

With the departure of scotty, this is what i propose...
 
Ill start out first by saying i HATE all the kaberle for bobby trade proposals. It is just annoying and a pipe dream for all TML fans.

Now, i myself have no problem with us trading for him if the price is right and he resigns at <5mil.

now here is my proposal...

1. trade lupul + PHI 1st + low prospect for kaberle and get him signed.

2. sign one of the many FA defensemen that we desperately need.

3. work blake + for a similar bad contract defensemen that can take the roll of "big and nasty"

4. trade the RFA wiz for picks or work him into the deal above...

5. sign kariya to a 1 year deal similar to what teemu got when he returned.

The reason I feel we need to make these moves is to keep the 2 fins. saku has made it clear he wants to play for the ducks but he also wants to play for a winning team. teemu stated earlier this week that he did not want to return if the team look much different (scotty and/or koivu leaving). therefore give him the oppertunity to play with kariya again and bring back that old 90's magic.

also, i dont know why kaberle is so under valued on these boards. im not sayign he is ANYWHERE near as much as toronto fans say, but he is still a legit NHL defensemen and with the departure of scotty i think that adding him would fill most of that gap.

also a fun stat for everyone since the lockout kaberle has 286 points in 377 games. that is a .75 PPG.

since the lockout, scotty has 264 points in 371 games. that is a .71 PPG

Kepp in mind that kaberle played for toronto during that period with a much less impressive team.

jax00 06-23-2010 12:18 AM

**** Paul Kariya.

airforceones25 06-23-2010 12:19 AM

Bob should open up Henry's wallet...

Trade Lupul + 29th for Kaberle signed..
Trade Blake for scraps
Sign Kovalchuck 7.2 million
Sign Marleau 5.5 million
Sign Martin 5.5 million


Beleskey(666k) - Getzlaf(5.325) - Perry(5.325)
Kovalchuck(7.2) - Marleau(5.5) - Ryan(5.0)
Marchant(1.125) - Bonino(875k) - Bodie(500k)
Brown(537k) - Chipchura(650k) - Parros(875k)

Visnovsky(5.6) - Martin(5.5)
Kaberle(4.25) - Sbisa(875k)
Brookbank(750k) - Mikkelson(850k)

Hiller(4.5)
McElhinney(535k)


Projected Cap = 59,240,000
Cap Hit = 56,438,000
Cap Space = 2,802,000



STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!!!
LOL... I can dream right?

Emerald Duck 06-23-2010 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by defer09 (Post 26434650)
Ill start out first by saying i HATE all the kaberle for bobby trade proposals. It is just annoying and a pipe dream for all TML fans.

Now, i myself have no problem with us trading for him if the price is right and he resigns at <5mil.

now here is my proposal...

1. trade lupul + PHI 1st + low prospect for kaberle and get him signed.

How do you propose to do this ? Kaberle has been quoted (directly or indirectly) as saying that he doesn't want to leave Toronto and that he wants to play in the Eastern Conference. While Kabs can't control whether Burke deals him within a certain window, he certainly can control his own fate as a UFA.

There is too much risk to trade for Kaberle and "hope" that we can re-sign him. Unless Toronto can extend Kaberle BEFORE trading him, then the Ducks should say no.

I don't have a problem with Kaberle the player, but I'm not willing to trade Lupul or a 1st rd pick for just one year.

Emerald Duck 06-23-2010 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airforceones25 (Post 26434730)
Bob should open up Henry's wallet...

Trade Lupul + 29th for Kaberle signed..
Trade Blake for scraps
Sign Kovalchuck 7.2 million
Sign Marleau 5.5 million
Sign Martin 5.5 million


Beleskey(666k) - Getzlaf(5.325) - Perry(5.325)
Kovalchuck(7.2) - Marleau(5.5) - Ryan(5.0)
Marchant(1.125) - Bonino(875k) - Bodie(500k)
Brown(537k) - Chipchura(650k) - Parros(875k)

Visnovsky(5.6) - Martin(5.5)
Kaberle(4.25) - Sbisa(875k)
Brookbank(750k) - Mikkelson(850k)

Hiller(4.5)
McElhinney(535k)


Projected Cap = 59,240,000
Cap Hit = 56,438,000
Cap Space = 2,802,000



STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!!!
LOL... I can dream right?

Kovalchuk for $7.2M and Marleau for $5.5M :laugh::laugh::laugh:

I guess it's your dream so you can make it a good one :)

airforceones25 06-23-2010 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emerald Duck (Post 26434776)
Kovalchuk for $7.2M and Marleau for $5.5M :laugh::laugh::laugh:

I guess it's your dream so you can make it a good one :)

okay fine... 2.8 mil extra..
so make KOVY 8.2
and Marleau 6.5

FTW!!!!

justheducks 06-23-2010 01:00 AM

Here me out...
Does Scott Niedermeyer retiring mean that the Ducks are in on the Kovalchuk? Think about it. With Scott not coming back that frees up almost $7 million in cap room and the cap is going up about $2 million. We could potentially add Kovalchuk without spending anymore then we did last season.
Sign Kovy to a 5 year 37 million dollar deal.
Trade Lupul and a package for Souray or Kaberle.
Resign Ryan to 5 year 22 million dollar deal.
Sign Frolov 3 year 11 million dollar deal.

Who needs D when you can score 5 goals a game :)

Paul4587 06-23-2010 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justheducks (Post 26435208)
Here me out...
Does Scott Niedermeyer retiring mean that the Ducks are in on the Kovalchuk? Think about it. With Scott not coming back that frees up almost $7 million in cap room and the cap is going up about $2 million. We could potentially add Kovalchuk without spending anymore then we did last season.
Sign Kovy to a 5 year 37 million dollar deal.
Trade Lupul and a package for Souray or Kaberle.
Resign Ryan to 5 year 22 million dollar deal.
Sign Frolov 3 year 11 million dollar deal.

Who needs D when you can score 5 goals a game
:)

I don't know, why don't you ask the Capitals?

getzforfighting* 06-23-2010 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul4587 (Post 26435332)
I don't know, why don't you ask the Capitals?

but ahh, hiller is better than any caps goalie

Paul4587 06-23-2010 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradycook14 (Post 26436178)
but ahh, hiller is better than any caps goalie

It wouldn't matter. You could put Patrick Roy in front of the proposed defense and the team still wouldn't win in the playoffs.

snarktacular 06-23-2010 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by defer09 (Post 26434650)
also a fun stat for everyone since the lockout kaberle has 286 points in 377 games. that is a .75 PPG.

since the lockout, scotty has 264 points in 371 games. that is a .71 PPG

Kepp in mind that kaberle played for toronto during that period with a much less impressive team.

You've been talking too much to the no-math Toronto fans. The ones who keep claiming Kaberle is the 2nd highest scoring defenseman since the lockout. 258 points. .68 PPG.

defer* 06-23-2010 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snarktacular (Post 26436407)
You've been talking too much to the no-math Toronto fans. The ones who keep claiming Kaberle is the 2nd highest scoring defenseman since the lockout. 258 points. .68 PPG.

according to espn stats those are correct. i did the math myself

getzforfighting* 06-23-2010 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul4587 (Post 26436266)
It wouldn't matter. You could put Patrick Roy in front of the proposed defense and the team still wouldn't win in the playoffs.

i remember a time back in 2003 i think it was where there was this one goalie named giguere...

Elvs 06-23-2010 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradycook14 (Post 26443965)
i remember a time back in 2003 i think it was where there was this one goalie named giguere...

Yeah, and a goalie making a playoffs like that happens what? once every 20-30 years? Also, the D at least had better depth. Not to mention during a low scoring era.

snarktacular 06-23-2010 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by defer09 (Post 26443820)
according to espn stats those are correct. i did the math myself

Just compiled from espn:
YearPoints
05-06 67
06-07 58
07-08 53
08-09 31
09-10 49
Total 258

I'm not sure where you're getting the extra 28 points.

Ducks DVM 06-23-2010 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by defer09 (Post 26434650)
also a fun stat for everyone since the lockout kaberle has 286 points in 377 games. that is a .75 PPG.

since the lockout, scotty has 264 points in 371 games. that is a .71 PPG

Kepp in mind that kaberle played for toronto during that period with a much less impressive team.

Keep in mind, if the team is up 2-1 with 1:30 left in game 7, you send Scotty out for the entire 1:30.

You send Kaberle to the locker room.

Selanne138 06-23-2010 10:25 PM

Heres a Pipedream Team:

Trade Lupul+ For Regehr
Trade Blake+ For Souray
Trade Philly's First (29) for Versteeg
Sign Paul Martin (~5 Million)
Dump Eminger/Wiz for picks/prospects, or possibly as a part of one of the above trades
Re-Sign Koivu and Selanne (3 and 2.5 million respectively)
Re-Sign Mikkelson (~0.8 million)

We give up two bad contracts at Winger to help sure up the defense by getting Regehr and Souray. We add Versteeg to our top 6 for Phillys first which should be a good trade for both sides. Signing Paul Martin completes our Top 4, and gives us a very decent team, with around 3 million in cap space to either sign a depth forward, preferably a Blair Betts-esque player to help our penalty kill where we desperately need help.

Projected Lineup

Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry
Versteeg-Koivu-Selanne
Beleskey-Marchant-Bodie
Brown-Chipchura-Parros
Carter

Visnovsky-Regehr
Souray-Martin
Sbisa-Brookbank
Mikkelson

Hiller
McBackup

Cap Hit: $56,692,167
Cap Space: $2,787,833

Looks Like a Contender to me. Id much rather see us go after Regehr or Burns with Lupul than Kaberle. They better address our needs, and are under contract for more than a year.

Gutchecktime 06-23-2010 10:36 PM

Quote:

now here is my proposal...

1. trade lupul + PHI 1st + low prospect for kaberle and get him signed.
Some of my fellow Leaf fans would probably have a conniption, but this deal would definitely have me listening. I'm sure this player doesn't qualify in your minds as a "low prospect" but I've attended a TON of Brampton Battalion games and one of my personal favourite prospects of yours is Matt Clark. I know for a fact that prior to the draft last year the Leafs' brass was extremely high on Clarkie - Loose Lips Cliff Fletcher made that quite clear at the Powerade Center one night. Is he up for grabs at all?

Quote:

Keep in mind, if the team is up 2-1 with 1:30 left in game 7, you send Scotty out for the entire 1:30.

You send Kaberle to the locker room.
This just isn't true. :( His reputation's taken a terrible beating but before we had some of the worst goaltenders in the league in front of him, he always looked very composed out there and was very reliable. Quinn used to ride him and McCabe quite hard in terms of minutes on his 100 pt teams before John Ferguson Jr came and **** all over everything. I really hope that wherever he goes he manages to salvage his rep around the league. At the end of the day, he'll leave here as the 2nd highest scoring defenseman for the Toronto Maple Leafs of all time, only behind Borje Salming. I'll miss him tremendously.

Anyways, we're not all bad. Desperate for a winning team again, is all.

caliamad 06-24-2010 01:17 AM

I think this proposal is realistic and manageable.

I wonder how easy it will be move Blake/Eminger though. I think the best big and nasty youll get in return is someone like Witt or Finger.

caliamad 06-24-2010 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selanne138 (Post 26457655)
Heres a Pipedream Team:

Trade Lupul+ For Regehr
Trade Blake+ For Souray
Trade Philly's First (29) for Versteeg
Sign Paul Martin (~5 Million)
Dump Eminger/Wiz for picks/prospects, or possibly as a part of one of the above trades
Re-Sign Koivu and Selanne (3 and 2.5 million respectively)
Re-Sign Mikkelson (~0.8 million)

We give up two bad contracts at Winger to help sure up the defense by getting Regehr and Souray. We add Versteeg to our top 6 for Phillys first which should be a good trade for both sides. Signing Paul Martin completes our Top 4, and gives us a very decent team, with around 3 million in cap space to either sign a depth forward, preferably a Blair Betts-esque player to help our penalty kill where we desperately need help.

Projected Lineup

Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry
Versteeg-Koivu-Selanne
Beleskey-Marchant-Bodie
Brown-Chipchura-Parros
Carter

Visnovsky-Regehr
Souray-Martin
Sbisa-Brookbank
Mikkelson

Hiller
McBackup

Cap Hit: $56,692,167
Cap Space: $2,787,833

Looks Like a Contender to me. Id much rather see us go after Regehr or Burns with Lupul than Kaberle. They better address our needs, and are under contract for more than a year.

I like this too, but the I'd be worried about what we have to give up to make the + work.

snarktacular 06-24-2010 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gutchecktime (Post 26457893)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducks DVM (Post 26455413)
Keep in mind, if the team is up 2-1 with 1:30 left in game 7, you send Scotty out for the entire 1:30.

You send Kaberle to the locker room.

This just isn't true. :( His reputation's taken a terrible beating but before we had some of the worst goaltenders in the league in front of him, he always looked very composed out there and was very reliable. Quinn used to ride him and McCabe quite hard in terms of minutes on his 100 pt teams before John Ferguson Jr came and **** all over everything. I really hope that wherever he goes he manages to salvage his rep around the league. At the end of the day, he'll leave here as the 2nd highest scoring defenseman for the Toronto Maple Leafs of all time, only behind Borje Salming. I'll miss him tremendously.

Nov 6, 2009: TOR 3, CAR 2. Protecting the lead, Ian White and Beachemin/Komisarek are in the last minute and a half.

Nov 25, 2009: TOR 4, TBL 3. Beachemin and White/Gunnarsson.

Dec 9 2009: TOR 3, NYI2. White and Schenn/Komisarek/Beachemin.

Dec 14, 2009: TOR 3, OTT 2. White and Beachemin.

Dec 27, 2009: TOR 4, PIT 3. White/Komisarek and Beauchemin.

Jan 5, 2010: TOR 3, FLA 2. Schenn/White and Beachemin/Kaberle (29 seconds)

Jan 18, 2010: TOR 4, NSH 3. Beauchemin/Schenn and Gunnarson/White.

Apr 1, 2010: TOR 4, BUF 2 (EN goal). Schenn/Phaneuf/Schenn and Gunnarsson/Beauchemin/Gunnarsson/Beauchemin


That's every game Toronto has been had a 1 goal lead in the last 1:30 this season. 8 times. Kaberle has played a grand total of 29 seconds.

Gutchecktime 06-24-2010 10:11 AM

IMO, very questionable choices by the coach of a 29th place team with 30th ranked PP and 30th ranked PK. Darn, all you've gone and done is made me even more skeptical of Wilson than I already was. :laugh:

Kaberle was misused this year as far as I'm concerned. I mean, I did watch all of those games you're referring to but I doubt I'll change your mind about any of this. McCabe and Kaberle were huge pieces of those 100 pt Quinn teams; he played them both around 30 minutes a game. I'd love to have him back if Burke could find another way to address our issues up front.

Hope I've addressed your points in a least homerish as possible fashion.

Emerald Duck 06-24-2010 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gutchecktime (Post 26464451)
IMO, very questionable choices by the coach of a 29th place team with 30th ranked PP and 30th ranked PK. Darn, all you've gone and done is made me even more skeptical of Wilson than I already was. :laugh:

Kaberle was misused this year as far as I'm concerned. I mean, I did watch all of those games you're referring to but I doubt I'll change your mind about any of this. McCabe and Kaberle were huge pieces of those 100 pt Quinn teams; he played them both around 30 minutes a game. I'd love to have him back if Burke could find another way to address our issues up front.

Hope I've addressed your points in a least homerish as possible fashion.

Fair enough.

While I view Kaberle as a premier PMD, sometimes it sounds like he can't skate backwards or that he forgot how to defend a play in his own zone. He's certainly not M-A Bergeron.

However, the Ducks' issue now is to find a mean, nasty, crease clearing dman who can play 25 mins a night to try and shutdown the other teams top line. Until that need is secured, another Top 4 PMD is secondary. Toronto wants to move Kaberle for a Top 6 forward, high pick(s) and/or a prospect, so at this time both teams are looking for trade pieces that the other team is not willing to trade. The fact that Kaberle is also signed for only 1 year and has been quoted as wanting to play in the Eastern Conference means the Ducks can't make roster plans involving him beyond this year.

IMO, I think Murray tells Burke that he'll have to wait a bit to discuss Kaberle until other needs are addressed. Since Burke has a tight trading window, Kaberle will be moved long before the Ducks are ready to talk about him. This is why I don't think the two teams are good trading partners for this deal.

Gutchecktime 06-24-2010 11:05 AM

Quote:

Fair enough.

While I view Kaberle as a premier PMD, sometimes it sounds like he can't skate backwards or that he forgot how to defend a play in his own zone. He's certainly not M-A Bergeron.

However, the Ducks' issue now is to find a mean, nasty, crease clearing dman who can play 25 mins a night to try and shutdown the other teams top line. Until that need is secured, another Top 4 PMD is secondary. Toronto wants to move Kaberle for a Top 6 forward, high pick(s) and/or a prospect, so at this time both teams are looking for trade pieces that the other team is not willing to trade. The fact that Kaberle is also signed for only 1 year and has been quoted as wanting to play in the Eastern Conference means the Ducks can't make roster plans involving him beyond this year.

IMO, I think Murray tells Burke that he'll have to wait a bit to discuss Kaberle until other needs are addressed. Since Burke has a tight trading window, Kaberle will be moved long before the Ducks are ready to talk about him. This is why I don't think the two teams are good trading partners for this deal.
- Can't really help you in the way of mean, physical defenseman unless we're talking Schenn, and if we're talking Kaberle + Schenn, that puts you at risk of someone mentioning the 'R' word again. :sarcasm: Just kidding.

- For the record, there's never been any quote from Kaberle or his agent to my recollection that if he was traded, he'd want stay in the Eastern Conference because his position's always been that he doesn't want to be traded at all. There's definitely been a ton of speculation on that but I think somewhere along the way it became "Kaberle said" or "Kaberle was quoted" and that's not really true. I'd assume if he's moved, the team that acquires him would get a chance to speak to Rick Curran beforehand to gauge interest in re-signing. Curran says he expects that.

- The window on Kaberle's NTC is open til August, so there's a lot of time there.

I'm not sure I see the Ducks as one of our better trading partners though. Just some points I thought I'd respond to.

BraveSirRobin 06-24-2010 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gutchecktime (Post 26457893)
Some of my fellow Leaf fans would probably have a conniption, but this deal would definitely have me listening. I'm sure this player doesn't qualify in your minds as a "low prospect" but I've attended a TON of Brampton Battalion games and one of my personal favourite prospects of yours is Matt Clark. I know for a fact that prior to the draft last year the Leafs' brass was extremely high on Clarkie - Loose Lips Cliff Fletcher made that quite clear at the Powerade Center one night. Is he up for grabs at all?

I can't really see Murray trading Clark. We don't have too many defensemen in our pipeline, and Clark is probably one of the best ones we have.


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