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-   -   OT: In Depth Review of Ballard? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=791432)

Lucbourdon 06-25-2010 11:22 PM

In Depth Review of Ballard?
 
hey guys, Canucks fan here.

Can you guys give us a detailed view on him?, I seen him play a few times, seems like a real good player.

Who does he play like?, is he more of an offensive player or defensive?, skating any good? physical?

etc

Thanks!

Erick 06-25-2010 11:26 PM

More of an offensive defenseman. Can make some boneheaded plays defensively. He was not good last year, but was very good the year before last.

He's a good skater, and he is physical, as well. Honestly, he was just bad for us last year, but he was forced into a role where he didn't belong. He's a top 4 D man, but not someone you can count on consistently to be a #1/1st pairing defenseman.

RainingRats 06-25-2010 11:27 PM

I would describe him as a Duncan Keith light. He can't be your #1 d-man but he can make a really good second paring guy. He is a great skater and pretty good puck handler. Good passer as well. Has the ability to join the rush and knows when to pinch. A non-existent slap shot but a pretty decent wrister. Will block a ton of shots. He is probably the best hip checker in the NHL. As far as the negatives are concerned he sometimes leaves his brain at home and as a result makes ridiculous mental blunders. He was pretty bad last season but that probably has to do with him being given too large of a role. He is weak around the net. He isn't going to clear the crease for Roberto but like I said, he will sacrifice the body. He is a good defenseman, #3 guy but his contract scares me. If he regains his form from a year ago you'll be very happy. If he plays like he did last season, you're going to rip your hair out.

Holy Jokinen 06-25-2010 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucbourdon (Post 26524189)
hey guys, Canucks fan here.

Can you guys give us a detailed view on him?, I seen him play a few times, seems like a real good player.

Who does he play like?, is he more of an offensive player or defensive?, skating any good? physical?

etc

Thanks!

My take is that he's a mix of both. He started out 08-09 with a bunch of goals and getting in on plays. He played the PP for us for the past two years. He has the ability to throw hits that will bring the crowd to it's feet. That being said, he doesn't play overly physical or big. He's pretty solid in his own zone. His big use, i think, is as a good skater who can move the puck pretty well. He can jump into he play while remaining pretty responsible about his D duties.

As i said in the other thread, last year he had to play more with the departure of JBo, and i think his play suffered from that. Ideally, he's a great 2nd pairing Dman. He could probably play on the top line, but you'll probably wish for a better top pairing guy if you're hoping for a deep playoff run. I think he's plays his best as a second pairing guy.

Laus723 06-25-2010 11:28 PM

Can't really give you in depth, cause I suck like that, but you guys will like him. He had a down year last season, but his hip checks are incredible, he can keep up with the rush, can get back quickly, and is a solid defenseman. He's better off with a shut down guy on his pairing, but you guys will like him.

Youtube his checks and fights, he's a fun guy to watch and will lift you out of your seats. I wish him very well in Vancouver and will be closely watching how he does there. Wish he didn't go, but I like the return we got, too. I'm not a fan of any Canadian teams, don't much care for Louie, but I'll be rooting for the Nucks a bit more now.

Holy Jokinen 06-25-2010 11:31 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0fMKYpt81o

#7 is a good show of his skating ability...

Markstrom Rules 06-25-2010 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucbourdon (Post 26524189)
hey guys, Canucks fan here.

Can you guys give us a detailed view on him?, I seen him play a few times, seems like a real good player.

Who does he play like?, is he more of an offensive player or defensive?, skating any good? physical?

etc

Thanks!

Yeah, I think everyone else pretty much covered it. I'll add he was 3rd in blocked shots last season and he can make some absolutely amazing blocks when the goalie is left out of position and he's between the shooter and the net. He can throw hip checks that bring the whole building to his feet, he's truly an artist in that regard. Total heart and soul player, I think a little lacking in hockey IQ though, but not that much. He is prone to the odd brain fart from time to time. Was much worse in this regard last season because he was playing out of place. Also goes for the big hit too often for my liking. Solid defensively but not great.

I think he was insulated well in 08-09, with Bouw and Skrastins getting most of the PK time and always matching up against the other team's best at even strength. This season really showed what he was made out of IMO. Although, again, he was playing out of place. In Van. he'll be more in his proper role. I'm still skeptical though, and since he would be a top pairing D here, plus his contract, it had the potential to be an albatross for us. So I was wanting him to be moved if we got a good return. I'll root for him though, he gave it his all for sure. Seems likable and a good leader for sure. I hope he looks more like the Ballard of two years ago in Van. than last year's.

So can you give us your opinions on Grab and Bernier?

Holy Jokinen 06-25-2010 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules (Post 26524648)

So can you give us your opinions on Grab and Bernier?

And why NHL.com has him (grabner) as playing only 20 games last year with no AHL stats?

flapanthersfan 06-25-2010 11:43 PM

he's not an offensive defensman, and he's not a defensive defensman. he's the epitome of a two-way defensman

he's incredibly fast - but lacks the vision/offensive instincts that any good offensive defensmen have. hell, he barely ever played on our powerplay, and it's not like we have excellent options back there. that being said, he's so fast and can skate the puck up ice into the offensive zone himself, alot of times that will get him on the scoresheet like bouwmeester does (another guy who lacks offensive instincts). he moves the puck well, too, although he'll turn the puck over from time to time.

he's physical, and a good shot blocker, but has a propensity for horrendous gaffes once in a while. they arent really that often, but they happen and when they do, boy are they embarassing. that keeps him from being a true defensive defensman. he's also pretty small (5'11), so while he's physical/gritty, the only time his hits are very effective are when they are hip checks. he's a heart-and-soul player though, he'll dive in front of shots face first to block them.

he's a second pairing guy....a #3 defensman. he's probably one of the most entertaining d men out there though. he's a joy to watch skate and when he hip checks someone....you'll jump out of your seat. i LOVE keith ballard and wish him well in vancouver, but he's not worth what the 'nucks gave up for him.

flapanthersfan 06-25-2010 11:45 PM

the good keith ballard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFotXmcuiRg

the bad keith ballard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Lrih5g-MM

Lucbourdon 06-26-2010 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules (Post 26524648)
Yeah, I think everyone else pretty much covered it. I'll add he was 3rd in blocked shots last season and he can make some absolutely amazing blocks when the goalie is left out of position and he's between the shooter and the net. He can throw hip checks that bring the whole building to his feet, he's truly an artist in that regard. Total heart and soul player, I think a little lacking in hockey IQ though, but not that much. He is prone to the odd brain fart from time to time. Was much worse in this regard last season because he was playing out of place. Also goes for the big hit too often for my liking. Solid defensively but not great.

I think he was insulated well in 08-09, with Bouw and Skrastins getting most of the PK time and always matching up against the other team's best at even strength. This season really showed what he was made out of IMO. Although, again, he was playing out of place. In Van. he'll be more in his proper role. I'm still skeptical though, and since he would be a top pairing D here, plus his contract, it had the potential to be an albatross for us. So I was wanting him to be moved if we got a good return. I'll root for him though, he gave it his all for sure. Seems likable and a good leader for sure. I hope he looks more like the Ballard of two years ago in Van. than last year's.

So can you give us your opinions on Grab and Bernier?

Grabner: he is super fast, maybe even on par with raymond, he battles consistency issues, but in the NHL last year he finally looked like he might break out, He has a SNIPE shot, absolute lazer wrister, and creates things by himself. His defensive game is not very good tho, probally his biggest weakness, also he is not physical at all.

Bernier: He has stone hands, he drove people absolutely nuts in Vancouver, he does show some good net presence on the PP, but cant handle, cant shoot, has no foot speed what so ever, and misses wide open nets more then jan bulis. he does hit from time too time, but never huge crushing hits. Honestly he is going to be a giant headache for you guys, and was a salary dump

Peter Griffin 06-26-2010 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules (Post 26524648)

So can you give us your opinions on Grab and Bernier?

Grabner is FAST. Great skater and when he started to go into the high traffic areas more he was rewarded. Doesn't have the greatest vision or playmaking skills, so I don't really ever see him getting more than 20 assists or so, but in the right condition I can see him being a 25-30 goal scorer. Kind of like a Peter Bondra-lite.

Bernier was a disappointment last season. He lost about 15+ pounds over the off-season, but it seemed to have affected his physical play. He was also injured, I believe an abdominal injury, which I'm sure affected his play as well. When he's playing great, he's a solid physical 3rd liner that can chip in 15-20 goals. When he's playing poorly like he did last season, he's an expensive 4th liner. He's also got very bad hands. He has been gift wrapped many, many chances in front of the net only to completely flub them and cause you to pull your hair out.

sdbullet 06-26-2010 12:18 AM

Grabner is a very fast, skilled goal scorer, he is a little slight in size and tends to avoid going into the corners, but he has great straight ahead speed and a good wrist-shot and slap shot. Lacks in the defensive zone, but if he is played alongside two defensively conscious players, and if one of them is a good setup guy, Grabner will be a successful 20-30 goal scorer

Bernier is a big body guy, who tries to hit and bang, but is a terrible skater, lousy speed and poor balance. Is really a north-south skater, getting better in the defensive zone, who brings a net presence and occasional goal scoring ability.

clyankees47 06-26-2010 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flapanthersfan (Post 26524739)
he's not an offensive defensman, and he's not a defensive defensman. he's the epitome of a two-way defensman

he's incredibly fast - but lacks the vision/offensive instincts that any good offensive defensmen have. hell, he barely ever played on our powerplay, and it's not like we have excellent options back there. that being said, he's so fast and can skate the puck up ice into the offensive zone himself, alot of times that will get him on the scoresheet like bouwmeester does (another guy who lacks offensive instincts). he moves the puck well, too, although he'll turn the puck over from time to time.

he's physical, and a good shot blocker, but has a propensity for horrendous gaffes once in a while. they arent really that often, but they happen and when they do, boy are they embarassing. that keeps him from being a true defensive defensman. he's also pretty small (5'11), so while he's physical/gritty, the only time his hits are very effective are when they are hip checks. he's a heart-and-soul player though, he'll dive in front of shots face first to block them.

he's a second pairing guy....a #3 defensman. he's probably one of the most entertaining d men out there though. he's a joy to watch skate and when he hip checks someone....you'll jump out of your seat. i LOVE keith ballard and wish him well in vancouver, but he's not worth what the 'nucks gave up for him.

It appears he had a great campaign two years ago but was horrendous last year. Is the 2008/09 version of Ballard worth what the nucks gave up?

KWGoon 06-26-2010 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyankees47 (Post 26525971)
It appears he had a great campaign two years ago but was horrendous last year. Is the 2008/09 version of Ballard worth what the nucks gave up?

Yes.

flapanthersfan 06-26-2010 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyankees47 (Post 26525971)
It appears he had a great campaign two years ago but was horrendous last year. Is the 2008/09 version of Ballard worth what the nucks gave up?

he didn't have a horrendous year last year. the team around him was far worse though, which made him play out of position( AKA, on our top pair). so his shortcomings just got magnified. with bouwmeester around, ballard never played against other teams top players. last year, he was the guy deboer matched up against them and he's just not that guy. hes not a top-line defensman, when you play him there is when he looks out of place.

he is now what he was in 08-09 - and that is a GREAT second pairing defensman. i love ballard, you guys will too. he's just not worth a first + a good, NHL ready prospect IMO.

regardless of what you gave up, you'll love the guy. trust me

parabola 06-26-2010 12:47 AM

He sounds like he'll be good on a Canucks team where he'll be on the 2nd pairing.

You'll like what you got from us too... Grabner at least. Good luck with Bernier who can be frustrating at times.

Erick 06-26-2010 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyankees47 (Post 26525971)
It appears he had a great campaign two years ago but was horrendous last year. Is the 2008/09 version of Ballard worth what the nucks gave up?

Don't think he's worth a prospect and a 1st, but the 08/09 version will certainly help your playoff caliber team, greatly. The thing about Ballard is that he's a game changing defenseman. It goes for when he's good and when he's bad, as well. I never thought he was all that steady/consistent, but he certainly was fun to watch, and he usually puts in the effort. I wish him well; he said he wanted to be part of the solution here, unfortunately for him that didn't happen.

nibbles 06-26-2010 01:26 AM

Sounds to me like he's a clone of Bieksa.. who's excited??

God 06-26-2010 01:32 AM

Grabner is an amazingly fast player with tons of character who will work his ass off every night. He needs work on putting his tools and speed together. He's easily the player that I'd rather not be involved in this deal, but I guess we had to give him up in order to get Ballard. Also Bernier blows. I always ragged on Bernier before he was traded here due to consistency issues, and he hasn't improved with them at all. One night he'll get two points for you, and then disappear completely for a while. Against LA he was actually putting pucks into the net which was an amazing thing to see considering he has trouble flicking the puck over the goalie's pads. The most important thing for Bernier is to think while he plays. But when he's not scoring, he throws some hits so I guess that's kind of useful.

Nazzy-19 06-26-2010 02:53 AM

Bernier isn't as bad as most Canuck fans like to think. If you accept that he is a third-liner who will score between 15 and 20 goals a season (and the inconsistency that comes with scoring those numbers) you will be happy.

When the Canucks first acquired him, most were under the impression we were getting a budding powerforward with 30 goal potential, and held him up to that standard for the two years he was here, hence the frustration and disappointment in him.

Grabner is still touch and go. He was a project when he was drafted, and as such took a long time to develop, but finally made strides last year. Sure he has some consistency issues with production (as all young players do), but even when he wasn't scoring last year he seemed to generate 2 or 3 solid chances a game.

He's super fast, but needs to take the puck to the net a bit more. Also, while he's no selke candidate, he's not that bad defensively. He played responsibly enough to warrant a bottom-6 role during the playoffs last year. And I wouldn't worry too much about when he was scratched in the playoffs last year, as it wasn't about his play but with AV's thinking that having a more physical player play 2 mins a game was a good idea.

I also thought he was one of our better forwards during the Chicago series and was flabbergasted that he was never given a chance on the 2nd line with players he had shown chemistry with during the regular season. He has a history of poor training camps for whatever reason, so that's something to watch for. Hopefully it was just due to nerves and it won't be an issue given he finally got some time in the NHL last year.

I definitely see Grabner putting up 20G next year if given top 6 ice time.

JP Mick 06-26-2010 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazzy-19 (Post 26527754)
Bernier isn't as bad as most Canuck fans like to think. If you accept that he is a third-liner who will score between 15 and 20 goals a season (and the inconsistency that comes with scoring those numbers) you will be happy.

When the Canucks first acquired him, most were under the impression we were getting a budding powerforward with 30 goal potential, and held him up to that standard for the two years he was here, hence the frustration and disappointment in him.

Grabner is still touch and go. He was a project when he was drafted, and as such took a long time to develop, but finally made strides last year. Sure he has some consistency issues with production (as all young players do), but even when he wasn't scoring last year he seemed to generate 2 or 3 solid chances a game.

He's super fast, but needs to take the puck to the net a bit more. Also, while he's no selke candidate, he's not that bad defensively. He played responsibly enough to warrant a bottom-6 role during the playoffs last year. And I wouldn't worry too much about when he was scratched in the playoffs last year, as it wasn't about his play but with AV's thinking that having a more physical player play 2 mins a game was a good idea.

I also thought he was one of our better forwards during the Chicago series and was flabbergasted that he was never given a chance on the 2nd line with players he had shown chemistry with during the regular season. He has a history of poor training camps for whatever reason, so that's something to watch for. Hopefully it was just due to nerves and it won't be an issue given he finally got some time in the NHL last year.

I definitely see Grabner putting up 20G next year if given top 6 ice time.

I'm sold on Grabner's upside already, but if this^ is true about Bernier and he hits and goes to the net, then I'm a happy camper!

JP Mick 06-26-2010 03:21 AM

If only these guys had to watch Kreps last season.;)

Nazzy-19 06-26-2010 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP Mick (Post 26527905)
I'm sold on Grabner's upside already, but if this^ is true about Bernier and he hits and goes to the net, then I'm a happy camper!

20 is probably his peak, but even during his bad year last year he was on pace for 15 over an 82 game season. He should be at least a consistent 15 15 30 guy. Maybe a bit overpaid at 2 mill, but a solid third liner. Just don't expect him to suddenly develop hands and become a top-6 guy.

Nine to Five 06-26-2010 03:48 AM

He only played 20 games last year with very little AHL games because he injured himself for a large part of the year.

The cause: playing warmup soccer after finally cracking the lineup.


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