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-   -   Caps-Pens What would you ask to flop picks? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=79878)

borro 05-24-2004 01:40 PM

Caps-Pens What would you ask to flop picks?
 
The obvious thing to me looks like Whitney and something. What would equal value be? What would be do-able? Given that the Caps and Pens are both in full rebuild mode, how much do you think the Pens would give up to get Ovechkin?

Jaded-Fan 05-24-2004 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borro
The obvious thing to me looks like Whitney and something. What would equal value be? What would be do-able? Given that the Caps and Pens are both in full rebuild mode, how much do you think the Pens would give up to get Ovechkin?


I personally would not give Whitney and Malkin for Ovechkin, but think that it is close to value if you truly like AO more . . . with how whitney has come on of late, even if AO gives you say 80 points to say Malkin's 70 points (a big if, though I would think that is how most scouts would maybe quantify the potential of the two - though as we have seen we have other threads saying that some scouts see the difference almost nothing or even Malkin ahead . . .that is another discussion and for the purposes of this thread, I will assume AO enough greater than Malkin to think of giving something up), if the players actually end up averaging 80 for AO, 70 for Malkin, could not see more than whitney. Not in a billion years. And as I said, if I were GM I would take Malkin and Whitney over AO.

Gumby 05-24-2004 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borro
The obvious thing to me looks like Whitney and something. What would equal value be? What would be do-able? Given that the Caps and Pens are both in full rebuild mode, how much do you think the Pens would give up to get Ovechkin?

Well given that Malkin really isn't the huge dropoff from AO at this point given Malkins rapid developement this year as was thought earlier in the year I don't think it'd be that much of an offer....not enough to really make the deal. Besides, AO is too safe a pick to deal for WAS and Malkins upside is too high for PIT to give him up. There really is no way they'd flop picks at this point.

Jaded-Fan 05-24-2004 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-mad
Well given that Malkin really isn't the huge dropoff from AO at this point given Malkins rapid developement this year as was thought earlier in the year I don't think it'd be that much of an offer....not enough to really make the deal. Besides, AO is too safe a pick to deal for WAS and Malkins upside is too high for PIT to give him up. There really is no way they'd flop picks at this point.


Well said . . . this really is one of those 'what do you think the difference is between these two players' kind of threads . . . in actuallity unless McPhee really is a bit off on AO as he has been saying, and Patrick is high on AO over Malkin, can not see it happening . . . and that is an unlikely scenerio, would be too big a chance especially for McPhee whose job may depend on this pick, if he passes on AO and he does take off, then he never works in hockey again except on top of a zamboni . . . if he takes AO and AO busts, who could blame him for the pick? Patrick is in a different situation, he is in the hall of fame and has the Pens job for as long as he wants it.

ATG 05-24-2004 02:07 PM

Id do that switching first round picks next year as that gives u a pretty good chance at Sidney Crosby

Gumby 05-24-2004 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
Well said . . . this really is one of those 'what do you think the difference is between these two players' kind of threads . . . in actuallity unless McPhee really is a bit off on AO as he has been saying, and Patrick is high on AO over Malkin, can not see it happening . . . and that is an unlikely scenerio, would be too big a chance especially for McPhee whose job may depend on this pick, if he passes on AO and he does take off, then he never works in hockey again except on top of a zamboni . . . if he takes AO and AO busts, who could blame him for the pick? Patrick is in a different situation, he is in the hall of fame and has the Pens job for as long as he wants it.

Another good point........who the hell could possobly bash McPhee if AO doesn't live up to his billing (no way I can see him totally flop) considering the enormous hype this kids gettin....though the more these dumbass writers keep puttin in the same sentnce w/ Lemiuex the harder it's gonna be for him to do so. But if he deals the pick and gets anything less than a superstar and a cup run in a few years he'll be one of those guys sweeping the ice during overtime. I see no reason for him to do it, and seriously doubt he will (if he does there will be much broken furniture in my house).

hockeyGod 05-24-2004 03:08 PM

The Pens should be happy. Malkin is a 1st pick in many other drafts. Stick with him, dont get caught up in the hype.

Mothra 05-24-2004 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan

. . . in actuallity unless McPhee really is a bit off on AO as he has been saying

What has GMGM been saying to make you say that?

Jaded-Fan 05-24-2004 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mothra
What has GMGM been saying to make you say that?


http://www.washingtontimes.com/sport...2824-1839r.htm

There are a few threads, on the Caps board, Pens, maybe prospects as well, that were trying to figure out whether McPhee was down on AO and really shopping the pick or just playing games . . . I was quoting the tone of those threads

borro 05-24-2004 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
http://www.washingtontimes.com/sport...2824-1839r.htm

There are a few threads, on the Caps board, Pens, maybe prospects as well, that were trying to figure out whether McPhee was down on AO and really shopping the pick or just playing games . . . I was quoting the tone of those threads

That's not the Caps board. Anyone looking for Caps news in the Times is like moving to Iraq for safety reasons!

Mothra 05-24-2004 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
http://www.washingtontimes.com/sport...2824-1839r.htm

There are a few threads, on the Caps board, Pens, maybe prospects as well, that were trying to figure out whether McPhee was down on AO and really shopping the pick or just playing games . . . I was quoting the tone of those threads


This article only shows how tight lipped GMGM is on these matters.....its just his policy....

as for the threads on the Pens board...I corrected at least one mis-quote....GMGM never said AO ""doensn't have enough finesse"...what he said was.....after attending the WJC....."I would have liked to have seen more finesse"....he also addes things like "as advertised"...."competed hard every shift"....and something along the lines of -physically gifted-...but dont remember the exact quote....I think anyone saying GMGM is not very high on him is making a mistake...

GoRyanMalone 05-24-2004 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borro
Anyone looking for Caps news in the Times is like moving to Iraq for safety reasons!

:dunno:


Ovechkin is a safer pick.

Jaded-Fan 05-24-2004 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mothra
This article only shows how tight lipped GMGM is on these matters.....its just his policy....

as for the threads on the Pens board...I corrected at least one mis-quote....GMGM never said AO ""doensn't have enough finesse"...what he said was.....after attending the WJC....."I would have liked to have seen more finesse"....he also addes things like "as advertised"...."competed hard every shift"....and something along the lines of -physically gifted-...but dont remember the exact quote....I think anyone saying GMGM is not very high on him is making a mistake...


Again, I was quoting the tone that I got from several threads, not my opinion or thoughts on what McPhee might actually be thinking . . . in fact I doubt that he would trade the pick for reasons that I said above . . . as to the point of this post, what is AO worth in my opinion as opposed to Malkin . . . I personally would not trade whitney and malkin for him but I think that right now AO is the safer pick . . . so somewhere between striaght up and Malkin and Whitney, but that is just my opinion.

Mothra 05-24-2004 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
Again, I was quoting the tone that I got from several threads,

ok....maybe next time say that from the begining....not "as he has been saying"

as for the tone of the threads.....they were mis-quoting him.....so his tone was being judged on people posting incorrect information....

RoyIsALegend* 05-24-2004 03:46 PM

I don't think it would be wise for the Penguins to cough up Ryan Whitney along with Evgeni Malkin to get Alexander Ovechkin. Whitney has the potential to become a #1-#2 defenseman, and is big strong, and can move the puck well. Malkin can be a first line player just like Ovechkin, but AO will likely be the better player.

I'll take two very good cornerstone pieces over one super one.

borro 05-24-2004 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I don't think it would be wise for the Penguins to cough up Ryan Whitney along with Evgeni Malkin to get Alexander Ovechkin. Whitney has the potential to become a #1-#2 defenseman, and is big strong, and can move the puck well. Malkin can be a first line player just like Ovechkin, but AO will likely be the better player.

I'll take two very good cornerstone pieces over one super one.

The topic is what would you ask. So if you were McPhee, what would you ask?

Jacob 05-24-2004 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander the Great
Id do that switching first round picks next year as that gives u a pretty good chance at Sidney Crosby

I could handle that, because that puts pressure on the Penguins to field a competitive team without giving up any current warm bodies.

borro 05-24-2004 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacobv2
I could handle that, because that puts pressure on the Penguins to field a competitive team without giving up any current warm bodies.

Jacobv2-Do you think it would be worth Whitney to switch? That'd be a deal I might do. Prolly ask for a 3rd too but Whitney would be exactly what the Caps need. What would Lemieux think?

Jacob 05-24-2004 04:17 PM

Don't know what he'd think- But I would question such a move.

It's all about how they value Ovechkin over Malkin. But one of the Penguins strengths is certainly their prospect depth on the blueline, and Whitney appears to be the leader of the pack. Trading him might turn a huge strength into kind of a weakness, perhaps.

I think Whitney's value has skyrocketed within the organization since he joined the baby Penguins.

At the same time, if you have a chance to get a franchise forward, you'd take it. I'd hate losing Whitney, but if the front office feels that Ovechkin is everything he's hyped up to be, I could live with it.

borro 05-24-2004 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacobv2
Don't know what he'd think- But I would question such a move.

It's all about how they value Ovechkin over Malkin. But one of the Penguins strengths is certainly their prospect depth on the blueline, and Whitney appears to be the leader of the pack. Trading him might turn a huge strength into kind of a weakness, perhaps.

I think Whitney's value has skyrocketed within the organization since he joined the baby Penguins.

At the same time, if you have a chance to get a franchise forward, you'd take it. I'd hate losing Whitney, but if the front office feels that Ovechkin is everything he's hyped up to be, I could live with it.

First time I've agreed with you, but for different reasons. It's not a trade I'd want to make. I'd make it if it was offered. In all likelihood:

1. You get the better player
2. We get 2 of them.
3. We fill a huge gap with a guy ready to play and develop.

borro 05-24-2004 04:34 PM

[QUOTE=Jacobv2]Don't know what he'd think- But I would question such a move.

It's all about how they value Ovechkin over Malkin. But one of the Penguins strengths is certainly their prospect depth on the blueline, and Whitney appears to be the leader of the pack. Trading him might turn a huge strength into kind of a weakness, perhaps.

I have an off topic question here...

With the likes of Tarnstrom and Orpik, are the Pens happy with Orpik's development? In all likelihood, both are teams will be in serious running for Crosby. But if one or the other didnt get him a #1 dman might be the prize.

Jaded-Fan 05-24-2004 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacobv2
Don't know what he'd think- But I would question such a move.

It's all about how they value Ovechkin over Malkin. But one of the Penguins strengths is certainly their prospect depth on the blueline, and Whitney appears to be the leader of the pack. Trading him might turn a huge strength into kind of a weakness, perhaps.

I think Whitney's value has skyrocketed within the organization since he joined the baby Penguins.

At the same time, if you have a chance to get a franchise forward, you'd take it. I'd hate losing Whitney, but if the front office feels that Ovechkin is everything he's hyped up to be, I could live with it.


Actually shows how far opinions of both whitney (and Malkin as well to a lesser extent) have come in a fairly short time . . . I remember asking this same question not so long ago, maybe a month ago, and most thought that trade (Malkin & whitney) were not nearly enough. I would not have made that trade then, would not now, but might do this:

Malkin & Whitney & pick #31
AO and next years #1.

borro 05-24-2004 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
Actually shows how far opinions of both whitney (and Malkin as well to a lesser extent) have come in a fairly short time . . . I remember asking this same question not so long ago, maybe a month ago, and most thought that trade (Malkin & whitney) were not nearly enough. I would not have made that trade then, would not now, but might do this:

Malkin & Whitney & pick #31
AO and next years #1.

Nope, that would DEFINITELY not do it.

Jaded-Fan 05-24-2004 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borro
Nope, that would DEFINITELY not do it.


*chuckles* . . . it was worth a try . . . I am still waiting for the proposals to pop up offering us some ridiculous trinket . . . say 'our rickety thrid line center who you have to believe is the best who ever lived but who I am willing to part with . . . .along with our first pick this year which is all the way at say number 15, for your next years number one' . . . and with a strike that would be a 50/50 chance at Crosby. I am actually shocked that has not been posted yet, look how you reacted to the Caps . . .what is it, something like 17% chance at Crosby if the strike takes the season?

EroCaps 05-24-2004 05:26 PM

My opinion of Malkin took somewhat of a hit after reading his interview on McKeens. After facing Canada and the US at the WJC, he said something to the effect that he didn't like the rough and tumble North American game very much, which could be a problem.


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