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-   -   If you were in charge...Who stays and who goes? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=80261)

Cuiff 05-26-2004 10:26 AM

If you were in charge...Who stays and who goes?
 
My philosophy as GM:: I want to rip it all apart. We need to get younger and faster. My plan will most likely require us to miss the playoff for a year or two but heck, you need to take a few steps back before you can move ahead.



Michal Handzus: Trade Bait
Keith Primeau: Keep
Jeremy Roenick: Hopefully retire (Tough player but over the hill, Maybe try and trade)
Patrick Sharp: Keep
Alexei Zhamnov Nice player but too old. His age showed in the later rounds
Donald Brashear Let him run out his contract
Todd Fedoruk Undecided
Simon Gagne Key figure in my rebuilding process
John LeClair Have assassinated (Hey man, I'm Italian)
Mark Recchi Hopefully retire (His age really showed late in the season & playoffs)
Radovan Somik Keep
Tony Amonte I'll drive him to the airport (Trade)
Sami Kapanen Keep (Old but nice lead by example type)
Branko Radivojevic Keep
Kim Johnsson Keep
Randy Jones Undecided (Phamtoms / Flyers)
Vladimir Malakhov Nice player but too old, too pricy
Danny Markov Keep
Joni Pitkanen Key figure in my rebuilding process
Marcus Ragnarsson Trade
Dennis Seidenberg Key figure in my rebuilding process
Mattias Timander Undecided (Good 7th D-man)
Sean Burke $4 mil for what? :joker: Out of here!!!
Robert Esche Key figure in my rebuilding process
Antero Niittymaki Key figure in my rebuilding process
Jeff Carter Key figure in my rebuilding process
Mike Richards Undecided (Phamtoms / Flyers) Key figure in my rebuilding process
Stefan Ruzicka Undecided (Phamtoms / Flyers) Key figure in my rebuilding process


Relax people, I am just doing this for fun!!!

John Flyers Fan 05-26-2004 11:05 AM

Do you enjoy watching playoff games ???

Cuiff 05-26-2004 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Do you enjoy watching playoff games ???


I would rather the Flyers miss the playoffs for two or three years and have a better shot at the cup later than watching the team continue to decay with age. Eventually every team needs to take a step or two back in order to progress forward.

Coburnfan05 05-26-2004 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
My philosophy as GM:: I want to rip it all apart. We need to get younger and faster. My plan will most likely require us to miss the playoff for a year or two but heck, you need to take a few steps back before you can move ahead.



Michal Handzus: Traid Bait Agreed
Keith Primeau: Keep Agreed
Jeremy Roenick: Hopefully retire (Tough player but over the hill, Maybe try and trade) Still want JR oon the team...Talent & Heart
Patrick Sharp: Keep Agreed
Alexei Zhamnov Nice player but too old. His age showed in the later rounds I could care less if he is signed
Donald Brashear Let him run out his contract Agreed
Todd Fedoruk Undecided Bye Bye
Simon Gagne Key figure in my rebuilding process I consider him our franchise right now...needs more of an offnsive role.
John LeClair Have assassinated (Hey man, I'm Italian)Buy Out
Mark Recchi Hopefully retire (His age really showed late in the season & playoffs) I would resign him in a heratbeat...albeit not at 5mil.
Radovan Somik Keep Agreed
Tony Amonte I'll drive him to the airport (Trade)Agreed..if there are any takers.
Sami Kapanen Keep (Old but nice lead by example type) Agreed
Branko Radivojevic Keep Agreed
Kim Johnsson Keep Agreed
Randy Jones Undecided (Phamtoms / Flyers) Good depth for the farm but I don't think he will ever be good enough to dress for the Flyers.
Vladimir Malakhov Nice player but too old, too pricyBye..too inconsistent...has a great game followed by a lackluster one.
Danny Markov Keep Agreed
Joni Pitkanen Key figure in my rebuilding process Agreed
Marcus Ragnarsson Trade Arguably our best dman and underrated...i'de keep him.
Dennis Seidenberg Key figure in my rebuilding process If someone wants to m ake a good offer for him..trade him...1 dimentional
Mattias Timander Undecided (Good 7th D-man) Good for depth.
Sean Burke $4 mil for what? :joker: Out of here!!!Agreed
Robert Esche Key figure in my rebuilding process Agreed
Antero Niittymaki Key figure in my rebuilding process Agreed
Jeff Carter Key figure in my rebuilding process Agreed
Mike Richards Undecided (Phamtoms / Flyers) Key figure in my rebuilding process Agreed...I think his overall game will end up being better then Carter in a few years.
Stefan Ruzicka Undecided (Phamtoms / Flyers) Key figure in my rebuilding process Agreed

And all of our other youth...keep obviously.

Relax people, I am just doing this for fun!!!


John Flyers Fan 05-26-2004 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
I would rather the Flyers miss the playoffs for two or three years and have a better shot at the cup later than watching the team continue to decay with age. Eventually every team needs to take a step or two back in order to progress forward.

If you're going to tear it down completely and do a massive rebuild then you're better off not re-signing Primeau.

Also plan on missing the playoffs for more like 4-5 years, and don't just miss the playoffs, but completely go up in smoke and make sure you're getting top 5 draft picks.

By then however Johnssona ad Esche will be over 30, so you'll want to dump them. Gagne will be about 29, so I guess you dump him as well.

Cuiff 05-26-2004 11:22 AM

GagsIsDaMan

Looks like we agree on a lot of these.......are you feeling ok ;)

Rex88 05-26-2004 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
Mike Richards Undecided (Phamtoms / Flyers) Key figure in my rebuilding process
Stefan Ruzicka Undecided (Phamtoms / Flyers) Key figure in my rebuilding process



They cannot play on the Phantoms due to age I think.
Correct me if I am wrong on Ruzicka but Richards has to be a Flyer or a junior.

Just say no to Malakov

John Flyers Fan 05-26-2004 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex88
They cannot play on the Phantoms due to age I think.
Correct me if I am wrong on Ruzicka but Richards has to be a Flyer or a junior.

Just say no to Malakov

Ruzikca can play for the Phantoms next year if they choose. Because he's european he has the option of playing in the OHL, AHL or NHL.

Richards can't play for the Phantoms, OHL or NHL for him.

Coburnfan05 05-26-2004 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
GagsIsDaMan

Looks like we agree on a lot of these.......are you feeling ok ;)

No I agree with you that we do need more youth and could use alittle morre speed but not at the expense of all of our veterans. Plus we do not have enough good talent in our system to bring up alot of youngsters especially on the wing or defense and with the likes of Leclair and Amonte I don't thnik we would get a decent return.

Cuiff 05-26-2004 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
If you're going to tear it down completely and do a massive rebuild then you're better off not re-signing Primeau..


Too good of a leader to let go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Also plan on missing the playoffs for more like 4-5 years, and don't just miss the playoffs, but completely go up in smoke and make sure you're getting top 5 draft picks..

??? Lets not overdue it. Your acting like I am cutting a 45 goal score from this team. (oh wait, we don't have one of them)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
By then however Johnsson and Esche will be over 30, so you'll want to dump them. .

The flyers will need at least one aged vet on the blue line (not 5) and a 30 year old goalie is in his prime. Just because I want to bebulid now does not mean I want to rebuild every year.



Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Gagne will be about 29, so I guess you dump him as well.

Now you’re being silly! I labeled Gagne a Key to the future. Not some over hyped over paid 37 year old role player.

Cuiff 05-26-2004 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GagsIsDaMan
No I agree with you that we do need more youth and could use alittle morre speed but not at the expense of all of our veterans. Plus we do not have enough good talent in our system to bring up alot of youngsters especially on the wing or defense and with the likes of Leclair and Amonte I don't thnik we would get a decent return.


Sorry, I see a lot of agreed on your repost.....must be my eyes

Rex88 05-26-2004 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GagsIsDaMan
No I agree with you that we do need more youth and could use alittle morre speed but not at the expense of all of our veterans. Plus we do not have enough good talent in our system to bring up alot of youngsters especially on the wing or defense and with the likes of Leclair and Amonte I don't thnik we would get a decent return.

Who cares about return on those two as just moving contracts would be enough.
I think you may find a taker on Amonte if we pick up half of his salary - maybe a mid round pick.

Cuiff 05-26-2004 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex88
Who cares about return on those two as just moving contracts would be enough.
I think you may find a taker on Amonte if we pick up half of his salary - maybe a mid round pick.


I think Phx is on the hook for a nice size of his contract already

John Flyers Fan 05-26-2004 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
Too good of a leader to let go.

Problem is that if you keep Primeau and Kapanen the team may still be able to grab a 7-8 seed or at least be fightig for a spot late in the season. This leaves the team drafting in the dreaded 12-18 area. Not good enough to get the great players, and not good enough to be a Cup threat. The worst possible spot you can end up in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
??? Lets not overdue it. Your acting like I am cutting a 45 goal score from this team. (oh wait, we don't have one of them)

No just , Roenick, Handzus, Zhamnov, Amonte, LeClair, Rechhi, Malakhov, Ragnarsson and I'm also assuming Desjardins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
Now you’re being silly! I labeled Gagne a Key to the future. Not some over hyped over paid 37 year old role player.


You're the one that set the age limit at 29/30, which is where Gagne will be at that time.

Cuiff 05-26-2004 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Problem is that if you keep Primeau and Kapanen the team may still be able to grab a 7-8 seed or at least be fightig for a spot late in the season. This leaves the team drafting in the dreaded 12-18 area. Not good enough to get the great players, and not good enough to be a Cup threat. The worst possible spot you can end up in..

If we make the playoff...nice. If we don't...nice. All I care is that it is done with younger players so that we can getter better every year, not older.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
No just , Roenick, Handzus, Zhamnov, Amonte, LeClair, Rechhi, Malakhov, Ragnarsson and I'm also assuming Desjardins..


Trading some of these guys could bring additional young talent (Roenick, Handzus, Amonte:since phx is on the hook for most 1/2 ofhis contract)




Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
You're the one that set the age limit at 29/30, which is where Gagne will be at that time.

I said for this rebuilding process not as a general team policy. Please read.

GKJ 05-26-2004 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
I would rather the Flyers miss the playoffs for two or three years and have a better shot at the cup later than watching the team continue to decay with age. Eventually every team needs to take a step or two back in order to progress forward.


So for that reason, you want to TRADE Michal Handzus and not make him the top 6 foward he is capable of being.

Cuiff 05-26-2004 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
So for that reason, you want to TRADE Michal Handzus and not make him the top 6 foward he is capable of being.


That is a reasonable question. I like Michael but his speed is a liability. I would at least shop him and see what other teams will offer

John Flyers Fan 05-26-2004 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
If we make the playoff...nice. If we don't...nice. All I care is that it is done with younger players so that we can getter better every year, not older.

Like I said falling in that 10-18 spot is the worst thing for a franchise. You end up stuck there, never getting much better, never getting much worse. You end up like the Washington Capitals forever.

Better to be really good or really bad than to get stuck in the middle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
Trading some of these guys could bring additional young talent (Roenick, Handzus, Amonte:since phx is on the hook for most 1/2 ofhis contract)

Handzus would be the onle one of thr thress to bring back a significant young piece. Amonte's value is almost 'nil. JR has some value, but not enough to bring back a sure fire young player.

Cuiff 05-26-2004 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Like I said falling in that 10-18 spot is the worst thing for a franchise. You end up stuck there, never getting much better, never getting much worse. You end up like the Washington Capitals forever.

Better to be really good or really bad than to get stuck in the middle..


I disagree. Both TB and Cal were 10 to 18 spot teams for a while.



Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Handzus would be the onle one of thr thress to bring back a significant young piece. Amonte's value is almost 'nil. JR has some value, but not enough to bring back a sure fire young player.

Again, I disagree, Amonte has some value because Phx is on hook for a lot of his salary. JR will have a lot of value to a team that needs a bit more to get over the hump. Now I am aware that salary issues may weight him down but we getting something in return.

John Flyers Fan 05-26-2004 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
I disagree. Both TB and Cal were 10 to 18 spot teams for a while.

Calgary has gotten on one hot run. Until I see them put together a sustained run, they'll be thought of just like Carolina, Washington and Anaheim.

Tampa has finished in the following positions while they were built (numbers are from the bottom)

2nd, 7th, 16th, 6th, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 4th,


Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
Again, I disagree, Amount has some value because Phx is on hook for a lot of his salary. JR will have a lot of value to a team that needs a bit more to get over the hump. Now I am aware that salary issues may weight him down but we getting something in return.

Amonte is still owen $9.6 million over the remaining two years, of which the Flyers are on the hook for the entire thing.

Name me a team that would pay a big amount for JR, who is due $15 million over the next two seasons.

Cuiff 05-26-2004 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Amonte is still owen $9.6 million over the remaining two years, of which the Flyers are on the hook for the entire thing.

Name me a team that would pay a big amount for JR, who is due $15 million over the next two seasons.

Got me there, but actually it is $9.6 over two years and then another $4 in deferments ($3 which will be paid by Phx)

GoneFullHextall 05-26-2004 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
I would rather the Flyers miss the playoffs for two or three years and have a better shot at the cup later than watching the team continue to decay with age. Eventually every team needs to take a step or two back in order to progress forward.

I totally agree. I would rather take a step back. let some of the prospects mature (Richards,Carter,Ruzicka, ect.) then to keep getting older.
I do not want a complete firesale but their are obvious changes that will have to be met. my thoughts?

Michal Handzus: keep. the best defensive center we have for a guy not named Primeau

Keith Primeau: keep. 3 or 4 year deal. he is the Captain and the leader of this team. hes not going anywhere.

Jeremy Roenick he wont go anywhere, he hopefully takes the whole summer off like Clarke suggests.

Patrick Sharp nice player. keep. I like this kid allot. he played alot better then i thought he would when he did get the callup.

Alexei Zhamnov -- how do you say seeya in russian. we keep him this guy wil drive us crazy. talented player but will take stretches off where you wonder if hes playing.

Donald Brashear-worn out his welcome. buh bye

Todd Fedoruk- keep--yeah i know worthless come the post season. but id say keep him.

Simon Gagne- keep-has turned himself into a real good all-around player. scored 24 goals while playing half that time on the checking line.

John LeClair- this one hurts to say. I like Leclair allot. But its time to go. buy him out and let him find work elsewhere.

Mark Recchi -team leader. he should retire a Flyer but at a hopefully reduced salary.

Radovan Somik--later--players like him are a dime a dozen. find someone to fil his role whos a bit tougher.

Tony Amonte--ill pick up the tab for his ride out of town
Sami Kapanen-keep-- i cant say enough about him. he stays here for as long as he wants. THE ultimate team player. if guys like TA and Leclair showed the heart and guts this kid had maybe were playing in the Finals.

Branko Radivojevic-keep big energy guy who if used right will be a real good contributar next season.

Kim Johnsson --keep. he is turning into a legit #1 guy. ignore his play in the TB series. he was not healthy.

Randy Jones--not NHL ready but worth keeping. needs to get with the offseason program and put on some weight.

Vladimir Malakhov--keep if he wants to sign a 1 year deal. can be very good when motivated which he was this season.

Danny Markov- a true warrior on the blueline. I loved what he brings every night.
Joni Pitkanen -keep. this is a no brainer. BUT he ne needs to learn to defend himself and brace himself for the big hit.

Marcus Ragnarsson-later. yeah he was good before he got hurt but i think he is the odd man out here. but he is probably brought back if Malakhov retires.

Dennis Seidenberg--keep. the kid has potental to be a solid defenseman. he has a cannon of a shot.

Mattias Timander- a nice insurance policy. played better then i ever expected when he was out there.

Sean Burke--later. filled his role but like the last time he was here its just a brief cameo.

Robert Esche--keep for obvious reasons. looks like we finally have a future in goal.

Antero Niittymaki-keep. will get to learn the NHL game as a backup to Esche.

Jeff Carter- is the future of this team at center. he will be given every opportunity to make the club next season.

Mike Richards-ditto

Stefan Ruzicka- is probably going to be in junior next season, but id expect him to be in camp in 05-06

Cuiff 05-26-2004 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
I totally agree. I would rather take a step back. let some of the prospects mature (Richards,Carter,Ruzicka, ect.) then to keep getting older.
I do not want a complete firesale but their are obvious changes that will have to be met. my thoughts?

Michal Handzus: keep. the best defensive center we have for a guy not named Primeau

Keith Primeau: keep. 3 or 4 year deal. he is the Captain and the leader of this team. hes not going anywhere.

Jeremy Roenick he wont go anywhere, he hopefully takes the whole summer off like Clarke suggests.

Patrick Sharp nice player. keep. I like this kid allot. he played alot better then i thought he would when he did get the callup.

Alexei Zhamnov -- how do you say seeya in russian. we keep him this guy wil drive us crazy. talented player but will take stretches off where you wonder if hes playing.

Donald Brashear-worn out his welcome. buh bye

Todd Fedoruk- keep--yeah i know worthless come the post season. but id say keep him.

Simon Gagne- keep-has turned himself into a real good all-around player. scored 24 goals while playing half that time on the checking line.

John LeClair- this one hurts to say. I like Leclair allot. But its time to go. buy him out and let him find work elsewhere.

Mark Recchi -team leader. he should retire a Flyer but at a hopefully reduced salary.

Radovan Somik--later--players like him are a dime a dozen. find someone to fil his role whos a bit tougher.

Tony Amonte--ill pick up the tab for his ride out of town
Sami Kapanen-keep-- i cant say enough about him. he stays here for as long as he wants. THE ultimate team player. if guys like TA and Leclair showed the heart and guts this kid had maybe were playing in the Finals.

Branko Radivojevic-keep big energy guy who if used right will be a real good contributar next season.

Kim Johnsson --keep. he is turning into a legit #1 guy. ignore his play in the TB series. he was not healthy.

Randy Jones--not NHL ready but worth keeping. needs to get with the offseason program and put on some weight.

Vladimir Malakhov--keep if he wants to sign a 1 year deal. can be very good when motivated which he was this season.

Danny Markov- a true warrior on the blueline. I loved what he brings every night.
Joni Pitkanen -keep. this is a no brainer. BUT he ne needs to learn to defend himself and brace himself for the big hit.

Marcus Ragnarsson-later. yeah he was good before he got hurt but i think he is the odd man out here. but he is probably brought back if Malakhov retires.

Dennis Seidenberg--keep. the kid has potental to be a solid defenseman. he has a cannon of a shot.

Mattias Timander- a nice insurance policy. played better then i ever expected when he was out there.

Sean Burke--later. filled his role but like the last time he was here its just a brief cameo.

Robert Esche--keep for obvious reasons. looks like we finally have a future in goal.

Antero Niittymaki-keep. will get to learn the NHL game as a backup to Esche.

Jeff Carter- is the future of this team at center. he will be given every opportunity to make the club next season.

Mike Richards-ditto

Stefan Ruzicka- is probably going to be in junior next season, but id expect him to be in camp in 05-06

Pretty fair assessment.

Rex88 05-26-2004 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
I think Phx is on the hook for a nice size of his contract already

Just the deferred part and we still are on the hook for the next two years which is what I based the numbers on - 9.6 mill over two years I think is the total.

VaFlyer 05-26-2004 02:49 PM

Okay, let me put in my offseason plan on the table:

1. Buy out Amonte and Leclair. They need to be off of this team and able to negotiate with other teams.

2. Determine status of Roenick as quickly as possible. Will he retire or does he come back? If he wants to come back, I want him here, but if not a replacement for the #1 RW must be found. Glen Murray is the guy that comes to mind for me.

3. Resign Zhamnov, Malakhov and Primeau.

4. Determine if the organization believes either of Carter or Richards is ready to compete full time on the NHL level.

5. If Carter or Richards is able to play and can play the #2 center role, explore trade options for Handzus. More likely any trade would be done at the end of camp, or after a 10 game tryout by one or both of these players.

6. Buy out Lapointe. He needs to focus on his help, not on playing hockey.

7. Work out a way to get rid of Burke, whether by trade or by buyout. Do not pick up his option.

8. With Malakhov, Desjardins, Markov, Johnsson, Pitkanen and Seidenberg all on the roster for defenseman, we have 1 to many older veterans on the roster at defense. Ragnarsson has only 1 year on his contract and should be moved before Desjardins. Explore these options looking for a 27 to 28 year old defenseman in return or a draft pick or 2.

9. Let Recchi leave unless Roenick retires and no other UFA like Glen Murray can be gotten to replace him.

That leaves us positionally this way:

Left Wing:
Gagne
Kapanen
Richards-I think will play wing his first year maybe longer
Brashear

Right Wing:
Roenick
Carter-I think may play wing his first year
Radio
Somik

Center
Zhamnov
Handzus-unless his is moved
Primeau
Sharp

Defense
Malakhov, Desjardins, Markov, Johnsson, Pitkanen and Seidenberg


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