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-   -   Andrew Gross: Tortorella: If Staal has no contract by training camp, he shouldn't be there(in tc) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=804275)

hpNYR 07-29-2010 01:53 AM

Tortorella: If Staal has no contract by training camp, he shouldn't be there(in tc)
 
One interesting note & bright side:

Quote:

ďI donít want to put words in Glenís mouth,Ē Tortorella said. ďI donít think you ever stop. We need improvements, maybe up the middle of the ice and weíre still fairly young in the back end. Iím not sure how it will work out but I still think youíre always looking to improve the hockey club and Glen is doing that. A lot of things personnel-wise before the season could change. You canít get locked in. Things could change the rest of the summer.Ē
Could not agree more. Down the middle a legit top 2 line center, and a veteran presence on the back end. Been preaching this since the beginning of the offseason. Secondary scorer(frolov), top 2 line centermen, veteran d-men. 1 of the 3 is done.

http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/rangerrants/

17futurecap 07-29-2010 03:12 AM

Good interview, touching on all subjects, nice job by Gross.

AJRanger 07-29-2010 04:09 AM

Didn't Dubinsky miss some of camp last season because he didn't have a contract? Seems logical to not be there without one really...

chosen 07-29-2010 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpNYR (Post 27148281)
One interesting note & bright side:



Could not agree more. Down the middle a legit top 2 line center, and a veteran presence on the back end. Been preaching this since the beginning of the offseason. Secondary scorer(frolov), top 2 line centermen, veteran d-men. 1 of the 3 is done.

http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/rangerrants/

Without a #1 Center (forget about a top 2 line guy) their ceiling remains far short of success. Tired of hearing that they need secondary scoring when they really need primary scoring.

Turambar 07-29-2010 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 27149171)
Without a #1 Center (forget about a top 2 line guy) their ceiling remains far short of success. Tired of hearing that they need secondary scoring when they really need primary scoring.

Frolov will provide more scoring than any current Ranger not named Gaborik. Gaborik is the primary scoring, Frolov could either be considered a complement to that primary scoring, or the start of the secondary scoring.

It's semantics, for God's sake..

eco's bones 07-29-2010 07:40 AM

This is where the Drury-Redden contracts hurts the team. It would cost money and lots of it to bring in the scoring center and/or stabilizing defensive player. The contracts for players like that do not come cheap. A lot of cap space being wasted on those two.

I really don't see the Rangers making many significant moves now. They're against the cap ceiling as it is and they have to sign Staal. The only moveable big contract is Rozsival and to do that you'd have to be convinced that someone like McDonagh could move into the top 4 seamlessly.

As well bringing in quick fixes costs other assets. I'm sure we could get Brad Richards for instance but what would go back the other way?--Kreider?--Grachev? Would it be worth it?

Our immediate future looks mediocre. A few years from now things should be a lot brighter. It may be necessary to ride out the next couple years. Dump Redden somehow and wait for Drury's contract to expire. We have a good chance to be a really good team by 12-13 or 13-14.

beastly115 07-29-2010 08:07 AM

Quote:

Conversely, he said veterans would not be assured roster spots just because they were veterans with perhaps a hefty contract.
Redden's going bye-bye :banana:

mullichicken25 07-29-2010 08:08 AM

im coming around slightly on the frolov signing

it must have meant they really didnt think any of the hartford kids are ready to handle NHL minutes

personally i think he's going to play one year and put up his career average numbers or slightly less, then not be resigned...but i guess theres a chance he lights it up and we sign him long term

like the enthusiasm from torts

this part:
Quote:

Conversely, he said veterans would not be assured roster spots just because they were veterans with perhaps a hefty contract.
sounds a little familiar

i guess that means the line combo ideas that have drury on the 4th are my not be too far off...and even more hints that redden could be a gonner

mullichicken25 07-29-2010 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphaqup (Post 27149595)
Redden's going bye-bye :banana:

beat me to it hahah

x BEUKEBOOM x 07-29-2010 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eco's bones (Post 27149436)
This is where the Drury-Redden contracts hurts the team. It would cost money and lots of it to bring in the scoring center and/or stabilizing defensive player. The contracts for players like that do not come cheap. A lot of cap space being wasted on those two.

I really don't see the Rangers making many significant moves now. They're against the cap ceiling as it is and they have to sign Staal. The only moveable big contract is Rozsival and to do that you'd have to be convinced that someone like McDonagh could move into the top 4 seamlessly.

As well bringing in quick fixes costs other assets. I'm sure we could get Brad Richards for instance but what would go back the other way?--Kreider?--Grachev? Would it be worth it?

Our immediate future looks mediocre. A few years from now things should be a lot brighter. It may be necessary to ride out the next couple years. Dump Redden somehow and wait for Drury's contract to expire. We have a good chance to be a really good team by 12-13 or 13-14.

Exactly. I've been watching the Rangers since '89 and I think we have had roughly 6 good runs since then either due to giving all our prospects away for the 1 & done run or, post lock out bringing in aging vets who only had 2 years left in the tank, but Dubi, Cally, Staal, Toots, & Girardi wern't seasoned enough yet.

Now that our core is getting better and by the time our blue chippers are ready in 2years coupled with the big contracts comming off, IMO it would be best to wait till then to fill in the gaps at that point with elite vets and that one grizzled vet that every Cup team seams to have.

I personally would rather see our core develop into a 4,5, maybe 6 year strong team instead of all this 1 & done crap.

Det was horrible in the late 80's, and NJ and Que/Col were horrible in the early 90's. Coincidentally, all 3 have had the longest tenured and most respected runs in the past 20 years because of it due to patience in building up their teams through prospects and peppering in vets when adequate.

offdacrossbar 07-29-2010 08:20 AM

more tortorella bs. nothin new here. same old crap out the clowns mouth.

any team with capt quaalude as your 2nd or 3rd centerman is in trouble. duh.

this team is damn lucky that frolov agreed to a 1yr 3 mil deal. a line of frolov, gaby and prospal could be exciting. that is, until the clown plays them 20 minutes per game for 2 months straight.

unfortunately, were still a one line team ( albeit a better one line team compared to any time last year). weve yet to really address any secondary scoring if we play fro with gabs. i really like alex frolov at this price. very happy we got him and looking forward to seeing fro at even strength and on the powerplay setting up gabs.

defensively this team is still a mess until we dump blowszy and or redden and sign someone who can stay home and clear hanks crease- and thats prolly not mcd either.

i have no problem at all with prospal, ec and arty as our 3 centerman to start the year but we WILL need a center sometime this season if we are to attempt to compete.

if im the norwegian midget, im kinda bummed we signed frolov..... could very well mean hes in hartford more. he did sign a 2 way deal though....

94now 07-29-2010 08:27 AM

Quote:

Tortorella believes it will finally give him a chance to rest Lundqvist in the regular season, potentially for a couple of games in a row here and there if Biron is playing well.
All games between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

ruckus* 07-29-2010 08:39 AM

The quote by Torts in the OP is probably the most irrelevant. Anyone who pays attention to this team knows that. Unfortunately it's not that easy.

To me, it's not worth it to make deal that costs us picks or top prospects (and take note, I'm ALWAYS one of the biggest proponents of the win now mentality, because you never know about prospects).

But I just don't know how it makes any sense right now.

Is Brad Richards a hell of a player? Sure. But do we really want that cap hit? Are we really a Brad Richards away from competing for a Stanley Cup? I just don't think a move for a top center does ENOUGH to put us in a position to compete for a Cup rigth now.

And the way I see it is that in order to acquire that center, we'd have to surrender younger, valuable roster players (which we can't afford to do and almost simultaneously negates the move for the center), or we're going to have to have to give up top prospects and early draft picks. Neither of which this organization can afford at this point.

I don't mind the structure of the team. If they're really going to give Stepan a look in camp, great. Is he ready? Probably not. But what the hell. I'd rather sit tight with what we have and keep building then take a step back and sideways by doing what I mentioned above.

Are we that good of a team right now? No. But we're not that bad either. Just be patient, and stay the course.

UAGoalieGuy 07-29-2010 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 27149699)
more tortorella bs. nothin new here. same old crap out the clowns mouth.

any team with capt quaalude as your 2nd or 3rd centerman is in trouble. duh.

this team is damn lucky that frolov agreed to a 1yr 3 mil deal. a line of frolov, gaby and prospal could be exciting. that is, until the clown plays them 20 minutes per game for 2 months straight.

unfortunately, were still a one line team ( albeit a better one line team compared to any time last year). weve yet to really address any secondary scoring if we play fro with gabs. i really like alex frolov at this price. very happy we got him and looking forward to seeing fro at even strength and on the powerplay setting up gabs.

defensively this team is still a mess until we dump blowszy and or redden and sign someone who can stay home and clear hanks crease- and thats prolly not mcd either.

i have no problem at all with prospal, ec and arty as our 3 centerman to start the year but we WILL need a center sometime this season if we are to attempt to compete.

if im the norwegian midget, im kinda bummed we signed frolov..... could very well mean hes in hartford more. he did sign a 2 way deal though....

MZA prefer's the RW, so the signing of Frolov doesn't impact him too much. It could mean issues for either Christiansen or Boyle if the Rangers intend on having Prospal as the #1 center and Anisimov the #2.

Frolov - Prospal - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Ansimov - MZA

offdacrossbar 07-29-2010 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robruckus (Post 27149875)
The quote by Torts in the OP is probably the most irrelevant. Anyone who pays attention to this team knows that. Unfortunately it's not that easy.

To me, it's not worth it to make deal that costs us picks or top prospects (and take note, I'm ALWAYS one of the biggest proponents of the win now mentality, because you never know about prospects).

But I just don't know how it makes any sense right now.

Is Brad Richards a hell of a player? Sure. But do we really want that cap hit? Are we really a Brad Richards away from competing for a Stanley Cup? I just don't think a move for a top center does ENOUGH to put us in a position to compete for a Cup rigth now.

And the way I see it is that in order to acquire that center, we'd have to surrender younger, valuable roster players (which we can't afford to do and almost simultaneously negates the move for the center), or we're going to have to have to give up top prospects and early draft picks. Neither of which this organization can afford at this point.

I don't mind the structure of the team. If they're really going to give Stepan a look in camp, great. Is he ready? Probably not. But what the hell. I'd rather sit tight with what we have and keep building then take a step back and sideways by doing what I mentioned above.

Are we that good of a team right now? No. But we're not that bad either. Just be patient, and stay the course.

2 edged sword. patience or missed opportunities ?

in our haste to make sure we dont move yutes for vets, we tend to overvalue the kids and that isnt a recipe for success either.

if the right player is available, and that player makes us better now and in the future, you make the move. when it comes to making deals, if it means you surrender young players to get better.... you do it.

keeping all the kids sounds great, problem is.... it could guarantee us being mediocre for long stretches. im not down for that at all.

94now 07-29-2010 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 27149171)
Without a #1 Center (forget about a top 2 line guy) their ceiling remains far short of success. Tired of hearing that they need secondary scoring when they really need primary scoring.

Here's the Tortorella's answer:

Quote:

Frolov would be given every opportunity to play on the top line with Marian Gaborik
I think it may not be in Fro contract, but it was promised to him by the Rangers, I am sure. He will play with Gaborik up until Russian *** Line emerges (Frolov-Anisimov-Grachev).

NYROrtsFan 07-29-2010 08:48 AM

Great interview.

Still a fan of Torts. Just think he's a good coach. One of those rare guys who can be extremely tough on players but still have them appreciate him for it.

Thought Renney was a good coach too but it's just a shame that there hasn't been much talent on this team for the last few years. The day that Jagr left (along with Straka, and even Nylander before) was when we really took a hit on legit first line players.

We still only have 1 clear first line player in Gaborik...

I Am Chariot 07-29-2010 08:52 AM

Quote:

I think Dan Girardi and Brandon Prust (both who were re-signed this summer) jumped right into being in that core.
Nice....

broadwayblue 07-29-2010 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 27149699)
more tortorella bs. nothin new here. same old crap out the clowns mouth.

any team with capt quaalude as your 2nd or 3rd centerman is in trouble. duh.

this team is damn lucky that frolov agreed to a 1yr 3 mil deal. a line of frolov, gaby and prospal could be exciting. that is, until the clown plays them 20 minutes per game for 2 months straight.

unfortunately, were still a one line team ( albeit a better one line team compared to any time last year). weve yet to really address any secondary scoring if we play fro with gabs. i really like alex frolov at this price. very happy we got him and looking forward to seeing fro at even strength and on the powerplay setting up gabs.

defensively this team is still a mess until we dump blowszy and or redden and sign someone who can stay home and clear hanks crease- and thats prolly not mcd either.

i have no problem at all with prospal, ec and arty as our 3 centerman to start the year but we WILL need a center sometime this season if we are to attempt to compete.

if im the norwegian midget, im kinda bummed we signed frolov..... could very well mean hes in hartford more. he did sign a 2 way deal though....

have you ever had a positive post? :laugh:

ruckus* 07-29-2010 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94now (Post 27149762)
All games between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Seconded. X100000000.


Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 27149699)
more tortorella bs. nothin new here. same old crap out the clowns mouth.

any team with capt quaalude as your 2nd or 3rd centerman is in trouble. duh.

this team is damn lucky that frolov agreed to a 1yr 3 mil deal. a line of frolov, gaby and prospal could be exciting. that is, until the clown plays them 20 minutes per game for 2 months straight.

unfortunately, were still a one line team ( albeit a better one line team compared to any time last year). weve yet to really address any secondary scoring if we play fro with gabs. i really like alex frolov at this price. very happy we got him and looking forward to seeing fro at even strength and on the powerplay setting up gabs.

defensively this team is still a mess until we dump blowszy and or redden and sign someone who can stay home and clear hanks crease- and thats prolly not mcd either.

i have no problem at all with prospal, ec and arty as our 3 centerman to start the year but we WILL need a center sometime this season if we are to attempt to compete.

if im the norwegian midget, im kinda bummed we signed frolov..... could very well mean hes in hartford more. he did sign a 2 way deal though....


I don't think you can look at more scoring solely from a line perspective. I know everyone loves to boast about Gabby's ability to play and score with anyone. It's true, but lets not act like adding someone else to the mix doesn't benefit him, Frolov, and the rest of the team. Goals count the same no matter what line scores them. Did it matter when Straka-Nylander-Jagr were scoring every goal for us?

All that matters is you find ways to put pucks in the net.

As you mentioned, Frolov on the powerplay is something I'm most excited about. Unfortunately all I can think about is the people last year who were freaking out about how Kotalik's bomb from the point was going to salvage our powerplay. I know this is totally different but it still brings back those bad memories.

Sometimes I think people fail to realize just how CRUCIAL the powerplay is in the new NHL.

We have had a steady and very good PK since the lock out. Our powerplay (like most others in the league) has been inconsistent.

The dominant teams destroy the league because of their superior talent and being able to utilize it on the powerplay (Caps, Pens, Hawks, Flyers, etc).

It's one thing that frustrates me about how the game is. I'm not for the clutching and grabbing but at the same time the game is called almost too close for my liking and the powerplay decides the outcome of SO many games.

This is something we need to understand as an organization. If we find a way to have a top 10 powerplay, with Hank in net, we are a playoff team. It's really that simple.

The powerplay is so important and Frolov should help that.


Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 27149924)
2 edged sword. patience or missed opportunities ?

in our haste to make sure we dont move yutes for vets, we tend to overvalue the kids and that isnt a recipe for success either.

if the right player is available, and that player makes us better now and in the future, you make the move. when it comes to making deals, if it means you surrender young players to get better.... you do it.

keeping all the kids sounds great, problem is.... it could guarantee us being mediocre for long stretches. im not down for that at all.


I agree completely, but I also don't think we've had a prospect group this deep in a real long time.

I understand overvaluing prospects, but I think that what we have in Kreider, Grachev, Stepan, McD, Werek, Thomas, MZA, Anisimov etc. is something that we truly haven't had in ages.

You can bring up the overvaluing of prospects but I think that anyone who really has analyzed them and looked into it deeper would not be able to compare the majority of the ones we've had in the past to what we are currently building.

94now 07-29-2010 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 27149924)
keeping all the kids sounds great, problem is.... it could guarantee us being mediocre for long stretches. im not down for that at all.

You're correct, although this board is not the place to reveal the truth. I also agree that entire interview is a typical BS Torts does since he got here. What it does, though, it shows some inner info on what they are moving into.

NikC 07-29-2010 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94now (Post 27150147)
You're correct, although this board is not the place to reveal the truth. I also agree that entire interview is a typical BS Torts does since he got here. What it does, though, it shows some inner info on what they are moving into.

what would you like Torts to say that he hasn't/isn't?

jas 07-29-2010 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robruckus (Post 27149875)
The quote by Torts in the OP is probably the most irrelevant. Anyone who pays attention to this team knows that. Unfortunately it's not that easy.

To me, it's not worth it to make deal that costs us picks or top prospects (and take note, I'm ALWAYS one of the biggest proponents of the win now mentality, because you never know about prospects).

But I just don't know how it makes any sense right now.

Is Brad Richards a hell of a player? Sure. But do we really want that cap hit? Are we really a Brad Richards away from competing for a Stanley Cup? I just don't think a move for a top center does ENOUGH to put us in a position to compete for a Cup rigth now.

And the way I see it is that in order to acquire that center, we'd have to surrender younger, valuable roster players (which we can't afford to do and almost simultaneously negates the move for the center), or we're going to have to have to give up top prospects and early draft picks. Neither of which this organization can afford at this point.

I don't mind the structure of the team. If they're really going to give Stepan a look in camp, great. Is he ready? Probably not. But what the hell. I'd rather sit tight with what we have and keep building then take a step back and sideways by doing what I mentioned above.

Are we that good of a team right now? No. But we're not that bad either. Just be patient, and stay the course.

I'm a big Richards fan, and think he's the perfect fit on the 1st line. But, I just don't see how it gets done. And, given that he's a year away from free agency, I really would not want to part with important assets to get him.

Now, I'd love to see Sather find a way to pawn Drury off on a team like LA or Toronto, (being that Burke is such a huge fan - Drury for Finger/D'Amigo...come on, Burkie, you love his leadership), then I'd consider moving Grachev in such a deal for Richards. But, I do not see that as a likely possibility.

Fitzy 07-29-2010 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikC (Post 27150202)
what would you like Torts to say that he hasn't/isn't?

There is nothing Torts can do/say.

A section of the fanbase will just always go after the coach, especially the Avery loyalists.

ODC, im surprised you are upset that there is less of a spot for a player you said would bu lucky to top 30 points even in a top 6 role.

GAGLine 07-29-2010 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 27149924)
2 edged sword. patience or missed opportunities ?

in our haste to make sure we dont move yutes for vets, we tend to overvalue the kids and that isnt a recipe for success either.

if the right player is available, and that player makes us better now and in the future, you make the move. when it comes to making deals, if it means you surrender young players to get better.... you do it.

keeping all the kids sounds great, problem is.... it could guarantee us being mediocre for long stretches. im not down for that at all.

Not all of the kids are going to pan out. In the salary cap era, it is vital to have young contributing players on cheap contracts. If we start trading kids, and we trade the wrong ones, we are going to be in trouble. Because for every spot we don't fill with a kid, we'll have to fill with an expensive vet or a cheap vet that is on the downside. Yeah, there are bargains to be found every year, but those are complimentary players, not players you build your team around.


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