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-   -   Stop the hate! (LeClair & Rex) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=80471)

EverythingSens 05-26-2004 11:26 PM

Stop the hate! (LeClair & Rex)
 
Come on now...

These guys were the heart and soul of the flyers for a lot of years, and going thru this forum, I see all kinds of messages saying "Axe them", "they're washed up", etc.. Who remembers when both Primeau and JR went down? Which line stepped up and took on the bulk of the scoring? yeah thats right, Johnny L, Rex and Handzus.. and if I recall, during the regular season they were the Flyers scoring leaders.. Just because the team wasn't the last standing doesn't mean that it needs a complete overhaul and heads need to start rolling.

John LeClair, as I recall, used to be a huge playoff performer, and spots of brilliance began to shine through during the TB series. He's got tons of playoff experience, and in '93 against the Kings in the finals, he scored OT winners in consecutive games. If thats not poise and clutch, I don't know what is.. the other thing is that over his 10 seasons with the flyers, (while being injured for most of 3) he's managed to score close to 300+ goals... thats 30+ goals a season, and keep in mind, he was the only American born player to ever record 3 consecutive 50 goal seasons.. Its just rediculous that everyone is turning their backs on this guy after he was hurt for so long and is beginning to find his game again. You may not realize it but he takes some of the worst beatings of anyone in any sport (only because of the Belfours, Brodeurs and Hatchers of the game).. I say give this man one more season to shape up (if there is a season), and if he doesn't a trade would be much more appealing to many teams, though I hear rumors, as I live 10 mins from his hometown, that he will end his career in Philly, though I would kill to see him in a Sens Uniform... he's the antidote to get them to the Cup, though not at 9M/yr.. :(

Recchi, he is just a natural born leader, and he leads by example... he busts his ass every shift, and he deserves to go out a flyer and on his own terms... I say resign him at any cost.. If I was an owner or a GM, he would be one of the first players I would go to. And he also has Cup final experience with the Pens in the early 90's, playing alongside Super Mario, one of my all time favorites :)

As for Handzus, give him time and he'll grow into his shoes just like Primeau did... Primeau did take a few years to grow into the team leader, which is his role, so I say give Handzus some time, and he'll grow into his role, which is a big, power forward and faceoff man. Though I think he's already there, he'll be much more dominating in a few years once he matures some.

So for all you Flyer fans out there who are chomping at the bit hoping for Clarkie to start the heads rolling, let me remind you: I'm sure that if LeClair or Rex were to hit the UFA market, I'm sure teams would gobble them up in a bit. I would love to see either or both playing for my sens though :)

Thats just my take on today's hockey world.. go ahead and flame away

Gags1288 05-27-2004 01:06 AM

I agree half way, Recchi deserves a little bit of room. Rex had an unbelievable regular season, was the team MVP, and was hurt and sick during the playoffs. He also had an incredible playoff year last year and we know he can still perform in the playoffs.

As for Leclair, he hasn't had a good playoffs since 1997. He is done in every way, shape, and form. It seems that he will be bought out and I for one say good riddance. He lived on the coat tails of lindros for a long time and was not deserving of a contract anywhere close to the one he received. He has worn out his welcome and deserves to be gone.

Handzus, well that's an interesting situation. He had a career regular season and went missing in the playoffs. I think that had a lot to do with Recchi not being healthy. He will never develop into the player we saw in Primeau during the playoffs as he is too slow to take over a game offensively. If Roenick, Primeau, and Zhamnov come back than Zus should be dealt for a winger to replace amonte/leclair.

panayiotis 05-27-2004 03:03 AM

cry me a river
 
:lol There time has come and gone. Time to get them out. move in someone new :teach:
Quote:

Originally Posted by EverythingSens
Come on now...

These guys were the heart and soul of the flyers for a lot of years, and going thru this forum, I see all kinds of messages saying "Axe them", "they're washed up", etc.. Who remembers when both Primeau and JR went down? Which line stepped up and took on the bulk of the scoring? yeah thats right, Johnny L, Rex and Handzus.. and if I recall, during the regular season they were the Flyers scoring leaders.. Just because the team wasn't the last standing doesn't mean that it needs a complete overhaul and heads need to start rolling.

John LeClair, as I recall, used to be a huge playoff performer, and spots of brilliance began to shine through during the TB series. He's got tons of playoff experience, and in '93 against the Kings in the finals, he scored OT winners in consecutive games. If thats not poise and clutch, I don't know what is.. the other thing is that over his 10 seasons with the flyers, (while being injured for most of 3) he's managed to score close to 300+ goals... thats 30+ goals a season, and keep in mind, he was the only American born player to ever record 3 consecutive 50 goal seasons.. Its just rediculous that everyone is turning their backs on this guy after he was hurt for so long and is beginning to find his game again. You may not realize it but he takes some of the worst beatings of anyone in any sport (only because of the Belfours, Brodeurs and Hatchers of the game).. I say give this man one more season to shape up (if there is a season), and if he doesn't a trade would be much more appealing to many teams, though I hear rumors, as I live 10 mins from his hometown, that he will end his career in Philly, though I would kill to see him in a Sens Uniform... he's the antidote to get them to the Cup, though not at 9M/yr.. :(

Recchi, he is just a natural born leader, and he leads by example... he busts his ass every shift, and he deserves to go out a flyer and on his own terms... I say resign him at any cost.. If I was an owner or a GM, he would be one of the first players I would go to. And he also has Cup final experience with the Pens in the early 90's, playing alongside Super Mario, one of my all time favorites :)

As for Handzus, give him time and he'll grow into his shoes just like Primeau did... Primeau did take a few years to grow into the team leader, which is his role, so I say give Handzus some time, and he'll grow into his role, which is a big, power forward and faceoff man. Though I think he's already there, he'll be much more dominating in a few years once he matures some.

So for all you Flyer fans out there who are chomping at the bit hoping for Clarkie to start the heads rolling, let me remind you: I'm sure that if LeClair or Rex were to hit the UFA market, I'm sure teams would gobble them up in a bit. I would love to see either or both playing for my sens though :)

Thats just my take on today's hockey world.. go ahead and flame away


stanley 05-27-2004 06:18 AM

I agree in that nothing is gained by "hating" LeClair. I'd like to see people just write that they think he's done and hope the Flyers can move in a different direction. I sure do, and I think that most who have watched him feel the same. It was a nice run but the party's over. He's one of the worst values in sport right now, and I think I can write that without being mean. I've always thought that his contract was one the Flyers just had to grin and bear because the guy was so underpaid in the mid-1990s. However, he's still getting paid rather nicely regardless of whether or not he's with the team, so that argument doesn't really hold water anymore.

As for Recchi, I'm pretty certain the Flyers will resign him. He wants to stay, Clarke wants him to stay - I think the Flyers get a little home-town discount on this one. I think he's worth a short-term contract of a couple years.

Steve L* 05-27-2004 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EverythingSens
John LeClair, as I recall, used to be a huge playoff performer,

Thats the problem *used* to be a playoff performer, he gets paid $9m not to perform in the playoffs.

Recchi was a total non show in the playoffs. He was so bad everyone thought he had a broken foot. I havent seen any injury info released yet.

Players the Flyers need to dump:

#1 Burke
#2 Recchi
#3 Amonte
#4 LeClair

3 total no shows in the playoffs and a man getting paid $4m to open the bench door.

GKJ 05-27-2004 06:44 AM

We don't hate LeClair, its just time for him to move on. He will always be a significant part of Flyers lore.

Cuiff 05-27-2004 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panayiotis
:lol There time has come and gone. Time to get them out. move in someone new :teach:

AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!! :handclap:

Cuiff 05-27-2004 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve L
Thats the problem *used* to be a playoff performer, he gets paid $9m not to perform in the playoffs.

Recchi was a total non show in the playoffs. He was so bad everyone thought he had a broken foot. I havent seen any injury info released yet.

Players the Flyers need to dump:

#1 Burke
#2 Recchi
#3 Amonte
#4 LeClair

3 total no shows in the playoffs and a man getting paid $4m to open the bench door.

:handclap: :handclap:

FlyHigh 05-27-2004 07:10 AM

Nobody here hates LeClair or Rex, but a lot of people think that it is time for LeClair to move on and maybe the same for Mark.

They have both done well for the Flyers, but their time is coming to an end.

Rex88 05-27-2004 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EverythingSens
Come on now...

I would kill to see him in a Sens Uniform... he's the antidote to get them to the Cup, though not at 9M/yr.. :(


You can have Leclair plus half his salary for a mid round pick.

Rex will come back if he will reduce his salary and Philly would love to have him. I hope he comes back.

Handzus is a good player and the majority want him here and I think that includes BC, but I get frustrated with his foot speed at times and we have good centers coming (Carter and Richards) thus the trade rumours. If the value is fair in an area of need I would move Zues too.

Amonte can also be had with a chunk of his salary for a mid round pick.

I am in the minority but I think Burke will be back and that is OK with me and not only that I think that he could be traded at the deadline for a good value.

capn89* 05-27-2004 08:03 AM

It's not called "what have you done" it's called "what have you done lately..." and they've both done jack shizzle, other than Recchi leading the low scoring team in points during the regular season. They both stunk in the playoffs, and big John has stunk for the past 2 or 3 seasons.

Coburnfan05 05-27-2004 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panayiotis
:lol There time has come and gone. Time to get them out. move in someone new :teach:

When Rex leads our team in points, please tell me how his time is come and gone. :shakehead

The only forward on our team who is better then him is Primeau.

JCD 05-27-2004 08:13 AM

RE: LeClair

1993 was more than a decade ago. What has he done since? Without Lindros feeding him the puck, the guy has struck out in the post-season. Not fast enough, not physical enough. As he has gotten older (and more injured) he just kept getting slower and more timid. He is a 9-mil medicore PP specialist. I guarentee that if the Flyers waive him, it would be met to the tune of cricketts around the league. If he had 1/3 his salary, he might be of interest. LeClair is closer to retiring than playing a significant role in a Cup run. He is a roster afterthought. Resigning him at that monstrous contract was one of the worst moves in recent Flyer history.

RE: Recchi

I will cut him some slack. He is not the performer of old, but earned his keep more than others. Provided he doesn't want a LeClair-like payday, he is worth bringing back. Simply put, we just don't have anybody comparable to take his place. He isn't part of the rebuild, but is a nice 'placeholder' until we get some worthwhile prospects in the pipeline. Is he worth big bucks? No. He is almost out of gas, who knows when he will run out. The last thing we need in the new CBA-era is to be saddled with another LeClair.

RE: Handzus.

He is what he is. He will never be a Primeau-caliber player, but is a very good 3rd line pivot. Just take him for what he is worth and be happy. If he was going to blossom into something more, he would have by now.

RE: Burke

Didn't want him back in the first place. His best days are behind him and he showed nothing this year to make me believe he has anything left. If he wants to come back on a back-ups salary, then maybe it is worth a look. If he wants a dime more, send him to the retirement home.

RE: Amonte

Another guy with his best years in the past. He just isn't a sniper anymore and doesn't contribute much else. Give a youngster a chance to take his roster spot.

RE: Zhamnov

I would rather keep this guy than Amonte or LeClair. He brings a more versatile game and has more left in him. That said, he isn't worth breaking the bank for.

RE: Cup Chances

The loss to TB didn't just close our Cup window, it nailed it shut. In the new CBA-era, we won't have the $$$ advantage we used too. Our roster is too old and too expensive to have a realistic chance. We need to think rebuild, maybe not a total tear-down, but certainly an overhaul. Take our core of youngsters (start with Gagne and Pitkanen) and build from there. Realize that our best shot is 2-3 years down the road and stop living for today. Anybody who does not enhance our chances then is expendable.

Cuiff 05-27-2004 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GagsIsDaMan
When Rex leads our team in points, please tell me how his time is come and gone. :shakehead .

1. Next year Rex will be a year older and a year slower.
2. Rex lead a low scoring team in points, good for him.
3. He was very average in the playoff
4. By resigning him, you take up a roster spot (on a top line) that would be better suited for a younger player with some upside. Like getting Gange off the third line!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GagsIsDaMan
The only forward on our team who is better then him is Primeau.

Gagne, JR, Zhamnov

The Seeker 25 05-27-2004 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCD
RE: LeClair

He is a 9-mil medicore PP specialist.


And the PP stinks.....


Quote:

Originally Posted by JCD
RE: Recchi

I will cut him some slack.


Agreed.....


Quote:

Originally Posted by JCD
RE: Burke

Didn't want him back in the first place. His best days are behind him and he showed nothing this year to make me believe he has anything left. If he wants to come back on a back-ups salary, then maybe it is worth a look. If he wants a dime more, send him to the retirement home.


I don't think the Flyers have the luxury of just dumping Burke. I believe Sean also has an option @ $4.5 mil for next season. Seeing how the CBA is holding salaries down, Burke will never get that kind of offer from anyone else. And he'd be a fool to opt out. We're stuck with Burke for another year.


Quote:

Originally Posted by JCD
RE: Amonte

Another guy with his best years in the past. He just isn't a sniper anymore and doesn't contribute much else. Give a youngster a chance to take his roster spot.

Again, agreed. Tony was IMO by far THE biggest playoff disappointment on the entire roster. To watch him play, you'd never be able to tell this guy used to score 30-40 goals/year.



Quote:

Originally Posted by JCD
RE: Zhamnov

I would rather keep this guy than Amonte or LeClair. He brings a more versatile game and has more left in him. That said, he isn't worth breaking the bank for.


Again, agreed. I would like to see Zhamnov back at a reasonable salary.

Cuiff 05-27-2004 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCD

RE: Cup Chances

The loss to TB didn't just close our Cup window, it nailed it shut. In the new CBA-era, we won't have the $$$ advantage we used too. Our roster is too old and too expensive to have a realistic chance. We need to think rebuild, maybe not a total tear-down, but certainly an overhaul. Take our core of youngsters (start with Gagne and Pitkanen) and build from there. Realize that our best shot is 2-3 years down the road and stop living for today. Anybody who does not enhance our chances then is expendable.


:handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

Finally an echo of what I have been calling for for years now!!!

Imagine if the Flyers would have retooled when I called for it 2 seasons ago. This team would be in a lot better position then it is now. :D

Dave Carlson 05-27-2004 09:30 AM

considering Rex had an awesome post season last year, and an equally great regular season, you would have to at least give him the benefit of the doubt that somethign was wrong this year.

Cuiff 05-27-2004 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Carlson
considering Rex had an awesome post season last year, and an equally great regular season, you would have to at least give him the benefit of the doubt that somethign was wrong this year.


The guy is 37 years old......Next season he'll be 38 or 39 (depending when next season is) At this age, skills tend to drops drastically. Just let him walk. No reason to take up a roster spot that a yonger player with more upside could benifit from.

Rex88 05-27-2004 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
The guy is 37 years old......Next season he'll be 38 or 39 (depending when next season is) At this age, skills tend to drops drastically. Just let him walk. No reason to take up a roster spot that a yonger player with more upside could benifit from.

Who will take that spot?
You already and rightly want Leclair and Amonte moved opening up two top line wing spots one for Gags. Now you want a third - for who?

EverythingSens 05-27-2004 10:24 AM

I don't really have a problem with everyone wanting to see Big John and Recchi move on, but when the team hasn't done what it needs to, I see problems.. Recchi is a great guy, and almost as good a player.. but in defense of John, I must say that when he has linemates that will give him the chance to score in front of the net, he WILL beat down the door and score every time.. We saw that in the regular season while the PP was still great and Zeus-Rex-John line was unstoppable.. The lindros comment was fair, and that makes what I am saying valid. LeClair is a Finisher, not a playmaker. And even though he wasn't scoring, he was in the top 25% on the team in +/- because he wasn't a defensive liability and was playing 2 way hockey. Lastly, players aren't paid their salary to play in the playoffs... they recieve bonuses based on how far they get in the playoffs, etc.. If salary required you to make the playoffs, teams like Columbus, Tampa, NYR, etc would've blown up due to lack of players wanting to play there. What I'm saying is that LeClair was paid 9Mil to score 55 points in the regular season, and I do think the flyers got shafted.. but once again thats why I think Bob Clark is one of the most irrational, act on impulse, dumbass GM's... (signing of leclair for like 6 years at 9M/yr, and trading away virtually every prospect on the farms this year).. yet still, I think if leclair is bought out, I believe he retires, rather than signing somewhere else, which is a shame because he's only 34 right now..

As for Handzus, I thought he was in his mid-late 20's, and I still don't know, but what I was saying is that Primeau didn't come around till about the same time so cut Zus some slack..

JCD 05-27-2004 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex88
Who will take that spot?
You already and rightly want Leclair and Amonte moved opening up two top line wing spots one for Gags. Now you want a third - for who?

Agreed.

If we had prospects waiting in the wings to take the spot, then I have no problem lettign Recchi go.

However, he is still productive and we are not exactly bursting at the seems with NHL-ready talent in the system.

Even assuming Carter AND Richards are ready to make the jump (which is a very bold assumption to say the least), we have Brashear, LeClair and Amonte to replace first.

Let Recchi go when and if somebody is able to pick up his slack. That isn't now.

Cuiff 05-27-2004 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex88
Who will take that spot?
You already and rightly want Leclair and Amonte moved opening up two top line wing spots one for Gags. Now you want a third - for who?

Sign someone younger. Give a Phantom player or prospect a shot. Grab a younger player in a trade. You have options. They’re not great options but heck rebuilding is not a fun time. It is a needed reality in sports. Especially with the upcoming cap. We will no longer have the luxury of filling holes at the trade deadline. Once a cap is in place, every team will have to rebuild at some point. Only the teams that are currently filled with young players will enjoy an extension from this reality.

Toonces 05-27-2004 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EverythingSens
As for Handzus, I thought he was in his mid-late 20's.

He's 27

As for LeClair and Recchi...

I want John LeClair bought out. He has no place on this team anymore since he can no longer do what he was paid to, score goals. LeClair's production can be easially replaced by somebody younger and cheaper.

As for Recchi, I would bring him back. He's still a very effective playmaker, and still possesses exelent leadership abilities. Sign him to a two year contract for as little as you can, and explain to him that he is going to have a reduced role.

Cuiff 05-27-2004 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonces
, and explain to him that he is going to have a reduced role.


Like they promised us last year. ;)

Toonces 05-27-2004 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
Like they promised us last year. ;)

:lol

True, but with Amonte and LeClair gone it's more likely to happen.


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