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-   -   what about Boris Valabik (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=80600)

funky 05-27-2004 06:35 PM

what about Boris Valabik
 
It has been deemed a wild card draft so why not take a chance? He has been compared to Chara and may take a little while to fill out but he could be a very good addition in the future to the Rags young and mobile defence. With the likes of Tyutin, Pock and Rachunek and possibly Poti the Rags defence has no real crease clearer. I can see the first three above mentioned staying with the team for quite a while if the team is truely adament about the rebuilding process. Add in the likes of Kondratiev or another current prospect (Taylor) who may suprise the team is still short that top 4 crease clearer for Blackie or Lundqvist(talking 3-4 years from now).

With the 1st pick of Barker is gone other then Thelen, Valabik best fits the Rags need at defence. He is rated #20 by the Hockey News but Central Scouting has him at #6 N.A rated skater. Is he a gamble at #6, probably and maybe, will he be around at #24, doubtful. I would love to see the Rags grab Tukonen or Ladd there as I'm not a Olesz fan but I would also love to see them get a big D-man.

Your thoughts!
Can they trade up?
there later first and a 2nd or two to the Kings?

Dgrohl8 05-27-2004 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funky
It has been deemed a wild card draft so why not take a chance? He has been compared to Chara and may take a little while to fill out but he could be a very good addition in the future to the Rags young and mobile defence. With the likes of Tyutin, Pock and Rachunek and possibly Poti the Rags defence has no real crease clearer. I can see the first three above mentioned staying with the team for quite a while if the team is truely adament about the rebuilding process. Add in the likes of Kondratiev or another current prospect (Taylor) who may suprise the team is still short that top 4 crease clearer for Blackie or Lundqvist(talking 3-4 years from now).

With the 1st pick of Barker is gone other then Thelen, Valabik best fits the Rags need at defence. He is rated #20 by the Hockey News but Central Scouting has him at #6 N.A rated skater. Is he a gamble at #6, probably and maybe, will he be around at #24, doubtful. I would love to see the Rags grab Tukonen or Ladd there as I'm not a Olesz fan but I would also love to see them get a big D-man.

They can trade up and get him or maybe he falls but there is not a chance they take him at 6 never unless slats pulls another retarted move
Your thoughts!
Can they trade up?
there later first and a 2nd or two to the Kings?


Rangers_23 05-27-2004 07:01 PM

If he falls I'd take him at 24. If not, I'd be happy with Oscar Hedman. This is assuming we don't move up.

NYR469 05-27-2004 07:59 PM

valabik interests me but NOT at #6...i would entertain the idea of moving up a few spots from toronto's pick if needed, but i think he should be on the board till atleast 15

Potted Plant 05-27-2004 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funky
Can they trade up?
there later first and a 2nd or two to the Kings?

See, this is the sort of thing I keep talking about. There is a very casual attitude towards second round picks. Let's offer them one, if that's not enough, just offer them another. No big deal. Second round picks have actual value. You can get good prospects with second round picks. They shouldn't be tossed about casually. I'm not opposed to trading up, but people seem to think that that's about all a second round pick is good for. It just isn't true.

DarthSather99 05-27-2004 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighlyRegardedRookie
See, this is the sort of thing I keep talking about. There is a very casual attitude towards second round picks. Let's offer them one, if that's not enough, just offer them another. No big deal. Second round picks have actual value. You can get good prospects with second round picks. They shouldn't be tossed about casually. I'm not opposed to trading up, but people seem to think that that's about all a second round pick is good for. It just isn't true.

I agree....they weren't just thrown to us...we gave up PRIME talent for them....not that we would have kept that talent anyway.....but that has nothing to do with it. Second round picks are valuable. Lou Lamourillo has build the Devils on such picks .....great value ....

jas 05-27-2004 10:02 PM

When you consider that Amonte, Weight, Richter and Tyutin were all 2nd round picks, their something I wouldn't just give away. OTOH, if it means getting a shot at Malkin or getting another 1st round pick, I'd consider it.

Bird Law 05-27-2004 10:35 PM

No no no no no no no @ Valabik. He's big, dumb, and has almost no ability to skate across the ice.

BobMarleyNYR 05-27-2004 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reveille
No no no no no no no @ Valabik. He's big, dumb, and has almost no ability to skate across the ice.

Really? I hadn't seen any of Valabik... I go by the assertions of the many as for him. Is that true? Another Steve McKenna?

Bluenote13 05-27-2004 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reveille
No no no no no no no @ Valabik. He's big, dumb, and has almost no ability to skate across the ice.

His skating improved by the end of the season, another reason why he shot up in the rankings. If anyone remembers, Chara's skating was just as bad. Not that Big Boris has that upside, but i don't see the 'Kudroc' factor in him either. :p:

Prucha73 05-27-2004 11:53 PM

If Valabik is still on board at #36 I would take him, but with #24? I hope there are better options.

karl_hungus 05-28-2004 01:05 AM

according to some reports his stock has dropped a little after a lackluster playoffs performance.

Bluenote13 05-28-2004 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl_hungus
according to some reports his stock has dropped a little after a lackluster playoffs performance.

He 'peaked' at the prospects game in February, but hey, first year in NA and he played alot of games, alot of minutes down the stretch.

Potted Plant 05-28-2004 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas
When you consider that Amonte, Weight, Richter and Tyutin were all 2nd round picks, their something I wouldn't just give away. OTOH, if it means getting a shot at Malkin or getting another 1st round pick, I'd consider it.

I certainly don't mind trying to move up, but people seem so dead set on it, regardless of cost. In my observation of drafts past, I have generally come to the conclusion that teams that move up tend to lose out in the deal. They tend to give up too much, and would have been better off staying where they were. We should inquire about moving up from #6 and from #25/24, but if they ask us to overpay, we should just be happy with what we have.

BTW, if moving up from #6 is not practical, I would want to listen to offers to move down. Part of me is really interested in ending up with Picard, who I think will be available at #8 or #9. Every time I hear about this kid I just get an image of Marian Hossa, who was also not considered one of the headliners of his draft year. Granted, I could be terribly wrong about that, but it's a feeling I get.

If a guy like Olesz doesn't fall to us, we should talk to Anaheim or Carolina and see what they'd offer to move up.

NYR469 05-28-2004 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighlyRegardedRookie
See, this is the sort of thing I keep talking about. There is a very casual attitude towards second round picks. Let's offer them one, if that's not enough, just offer them another. No big deal. Second round picks have actual value. You can get good prospects with second round picks. They shouldn't be tossed about casually. I'm not opposed to trading up, but people seem to think that that's about all a second round pick is good for. It just isn't true.

i agree with you 100% that 2nd rounders have value, but when you have 5 2nd rounders (which we will after umberger becomes a free agent) then you can afford to use 1 of those picks in a deal if necessary...

and i'm NOT suggesting just giving away any of our picks, but if there is a certain player that we really want and we need to move up a couple spots to get him then it is an option to consider...and thanks to all our extra picks it is an option we can consider without it hurting us...

and i'm also not saying that it should be necessarily done to get valabik either...maybe come draft day someone like stafford or schremp will fall further than expected and the possiblity of trading up to grab one would become a great option...gotta keep your options open

True Blue 05-28-2004 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prucha73
If Valabik is still on board at #36 I would take him, but with #24? I hope there are better options.

I disagree. I think taking Boris at #24 would be a steal. Get him that late and run.

JR#9* 05-28-2004 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
I disagree. I think taking Boris at #24 would be a steal. Get him that late and run.

I agree with TB that if he's there at 24 I'd certainly take him and hope for a poor man's Chara to emerge.

What he would possibly bring in the size and toughness is exactly what is lacking on our blueline of the future.

Bird Law 05-28-2004 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote13
His skating improved by the end of the season, another reason why he shot up in the rankings. If anyone remembers, Chara's skating was just as bad. Not that Big Boris has that upside, but i don't see the 'Kudroc' factor in him either. :p:

I don't think so at all. I haven't been able to watch half as many guys this year as I had a chance to last year, but he just seems to have gotten a bit more footspeed on him. He still can't manuever across ice like a defenseman should be able to and it's extremely easy to beat him to the side. Chara, while having bad overall speed, could still cross the ice with enough speed to catch someone going around him by the side. And that's another reason why he's such a great defenseman today.

Chara is also a hell of a lot smarter than Valabik with much better passing skills.

Bird Law 05-28-2004 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
Really? I hadn't seen any of Valabik... I go by the assertions of the many as for him. Is that true? Another Steve McKenna?

Not even close to that level, but more like a Biron/Mezei for me. A servicable d-man who is nasty and big but just isn't fast enough to get #3/4 minutes.

Bluenote13 05-28-2004 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reveille
I don't think so at all. I haven't been able to watch half as many guys this year as I had a chance to last year, but he just seems to have gotten a bit more footspeed on him. He still can't manuever across ice like a defenseman should be able to and it's extremely easy to beat him to the side. Chara, while having bad overall speed, could still cross the ice with enough speed to catch someone going around him by the side. And that's another reason why he's such a great defenseman today.

Chara is also a hell of a lot smarter than Valabik with much better passing skills.

Well, i agree with everything you said about the two styles both big men play. And yes, I agree that he is not a Chara clone, but does that mean he can't play? I've seen alot of big guys before Boris who didn't improve from beginning of season to end, but Boris did. His skating got better, and his play with the puck looked more comfortable as well.

He is a definite project, at least 2-4 seasons from the NHL.

Bird Law 05-28-2004 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote13
Well, i agree with everything you said about the two styles both big men play. And yes, I agree that he is not a Chara clone, but does that mean he can't play? I've seen alot of big guys before Boris who didn't improve from beginning of season to end, but Boris did. His skating got better, and his play with the puck looked more comfortable as well.

He is a definite project, at least 2-4 seasons from the NHL.

I just don't see him going far since he is just not a smart player at all. He makes dumb plays and winds up out of position a lot because of that. The thing with Chara was that he was NEVER a dumb player. The thing with Mezei, Kudroc, Biron, etc. is that they are all big and mean but they are dumb players. They don't have the hockey sense needed to succeed. And that's exactly the problem I see in Valabik. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him at the #24 pick, but I would not move down or anything just to get him under any circumstance.

Prucha73 05-28-2004 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
I disagree. I think taking Boris at #24 would be a steal. Get him that late and run.

I am just saying that there might be better players available at #24.

funky 05-28-2004 12:32 PM

Thanks Reveille, I honestly have not seen Boris play, I am just taking what I have read in magizines as well as on other chat boards etc. Like I said I would use the # 6 pick on a Barker, Tukonen or Ladd.

As for Prucha saying he would look for something better at 24, I ask Who? I can't find 20 guys who I like as first rounders. To me there are 3-7 players I would love to have then another dozen I see as true 1st rounders. This draft seems pretty weak for top line talent in my opinion. There are a lot of people who look to be solid checkers and 4th line guys but in the first round I would rather try and find a homerun and given Valabiks rise in the charts and improvements over the year I would take a chance on him.

The other person I haven't seen but intrigues me as a possible future crease clearer that can play quality minutes is Lyamin. I know he was hurt earlier but seems to have recovered. Reveille can you or anyone give me more info about him? Thanks.

Bluenote13 05-28-2004 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reveille
I just don't see him going far since he is just not a smart player at all. He makes dumb plays and winds up out of position a lot because of that. The thing with Chara was that he was NEVER a dumb player. The thing with Mezei, Kudroc, Biron, etc. is that they are all big and mean but they are dumb players. They don't have the hockey sense needed to succeed. And that's exactly the problem I see in Valabik. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him at the #24 pick, but I would not move down or anything just to get him under any circumstance.

It's way too early to start thinking that way on this player. This was his first year in NA, of course he's gonna look out of place at times. Boris is a big raw talent, he turned 18 in February, he'll at least need 4 years of Junior/minor league training. He's definitely a wild card, maybe thats why we should stay away from him, but i know some team out there will take that chance.


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