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-   -   Van/ChiHawks trade proposal. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=80702)

Peter 05-28-2004 12:39 PM

Van/ChiHawks trade proposal.
 
Canuck fan here. Looking to float this thought by you Hawk fans before I post it over on the Canuck board: would love your input.

Some say that the Canucks would like to draft Cam Barker. So would your Hawks make this deal:

To Vancouver: Daze and 1st pick 2004 (#3)
To Chicago: Bertuzzi and 1st pick 2004

Thanks

hawksfan50 05-28-2004 02:47 PM

1. Bertuzzi will be in the slammer=no thanks!

2. Even if he were not----$Bill would never pay his big salary...

A nix from the getgo!

Hawkalyzer 05-28-2004 03:27 PM

not too interested in picking up bertuzzi

dont think he'd be too happy coming here either

Wally112pac 05-28-2004 05:49 PM

No thanks.

Peter Griffin 05-28-2004 08:51 PM

I wouldn't do it from a Canucks' perspective. The Canucks need to get tougher and more physical, not softer, and injury prone. Getting the #3 pick would be nice, but not at the expense of trading Bertuzzi.

Youreallygotme 05-29-2004 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter
Canuck fan here. Looking to float this thought by you Hawk fans before I post it over on the Canuck board: would love your input.

Some say that the Canucks would like to draft Cam Barker. So would your Hawks make this deal:

To Vancouver: Daze and 1st pick 2004 (#3)
To Chicago: Bertuzzi and 1st pick 2004

Thanks

bad trade for canucks.

RI Canuck 05-29-2004 12:59 AM

From a Canuck fan- no way.

incawg 05-29-2004 09:41 AM

Canucks would never do that.

Peter 05-31-2004 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incawg
Canucks would never do that.

Laugh. I didn't ask whether you thought the Canucks would do it...I asked whether or not you ChiHawks fans would.

Teemu 05-31-2004 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter
Laugh. I didn't ask whether you thought the Canucks would do it...I asked whether or not you ChiHawks fans would.

And we wouldnt.

incawg 05-31-2004 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter
Laugh. I didn't ask whether you thought the Canucks would do it...I asked whether or not you ChiHawks fans would.

And they told you they wouldn't. And canucks fans told you we wouldn't. So this trade proposal is thus DOA :help:

Peter 05-31-2004 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incawg
And they told you they wouldn't. And canucks fans told you we wouldn't. So this trade proposal is thus DOA :help:

Actually friend, the first three responses addressed the original question then a bunch of Canuck fans jumped in from the Canucks perspective...then it got deraileed. So, if you don't mind I would like to hear what ChiHawk fans think. If I wanted Canuck fans opinions I would have posed it on the board over there. But as I said in my original post I wanted ChiHawks opinion first. Thanks.

GaryU 05-31-2004 01:00 PM

Let's see...we signed Probert (in rehab the entire 1st year)...we signed Fleury & that stupid little alky rode himself out of town...Now, Bertuzzi & late #1 for Daze & the #3???? And Bertuzzi may not play all year....Thanks, but no.

NFITO 05-31-2004 02:44 PM

this is a good thread, in that it shows fans that Bertuzzi's value has really taken a beating.... something which I'm sure all GMs, including Nonis, knows.

There's no way he's going to deal Bertuzzi right now... some fans actually think that he won't be back next season, but most think that he's not the player he was a few months ago.

I know you don't want to hear canuck fans POV, but I wouldn't also consider dealing him right now... and it's clear - with all 4 hawk fans that responded here - that they don't think much of him either to want to deal for him.

Peter 05-31-2004 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
this is a good thread, in that it shows fans that Bertuzzi's value has really taken a beating.... something which I'm sure all GMs, including Nonis, knows.

There's no way he's going to deal Bertuzzi right now... some fans actually think that he won't be back next season, but most think that he's not the player he was a few months ago.

I know you don't want to hear canuck fans POV, but I wouldn't also consider dealing him right now... and it's clear - with all 4 hawk fans that responded here - that they don't think much of him either to want to deal for him.

Which is the reason for my thread....many Canuck fans, in how they have responded to Bertuzzi trade proposals, still value you him based upon what he has done in the past. Not many, yourself obviously not included, realize that his value has dropped because of his actions. His exclusion from the World Cup is one great example. Personally, I think Bertuzzi will be moved but not at the value many Canuck fans think they should get. And obviously from how some of the Hawk fans have reacted to the proposal - I am not alone in my assessment.

Bertuzzi, while a great player IMO, is suffering from a "character issue" and will, IMO, be moved by the Canucks do to possible "bad press" which may or may not follow him and the team around - when he gets reinstated.

As for his reinstatment - I have no doubt he will be at training camp (if the NHL is still operating this coming season) - it may not be the Canucks but it will be somewhere.

NFITO 05-31-2004 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter
Which is the reason for my thread....many Canuck fans, in how they have responded to Bertuzzi trade proposals, still value you him based upon what he has done in the past. Not many, yourself obviously not included, realize that his value has dropped because of his actions. His exclusion from the World Cup is one great example. Personally, I think Bertuzzi will be moved but not at the value many Canuck fans think they should get. And obviously from how some of the Hawk fans have reacted to the proposal - I am not alone in my assessment.

Bertuzzi, while a great player IMO, is suffering from a "character issue" and will, IMO, be moved by the Canucks do to possible "bad press" which may or may not follow him and the team around - when he gets reinstated.

As for his reinstatment - I have no doubt he will be at training camp (if the NHL is still operating this coming season) - it may not be the Canucks but it will be somewhere.

this is where I disagree with you... I don't think there is any way the Canucks deal Bertuzzi at all.

Nonis in his first year as GM of the Canucks, under huge pressure from management, is going to deal off one of their star players, at less value?? dont' see it happening...

the Vancouver public has also supported Bertuzzi more than anyone could have expected... now you tell the public you're dealing him off anyways, and that at a lower price where the product you get back isn't as good... yea... like this isn't going to create a PR nightmare on its own.

then you have the team captain - Bertuzzi's best friend - who's stood by Bert the whole time, made it public how unhappy he felt after the whole incident, supported Bert through it, and has said how much he's looking forward to playing with him next season.

so a good way to alienate your fans (who stood by Bert) is by dealing him... good way to piss off your captain is by dealing his best friend... good way to piss off the fans is by getting less value for a top player, giving them every reason to think that they are looking for the future (1st round pick for a current star player).

I would be extremely shocked if Nonis even thought about dealing Bert... not with Naslund having one year left here (before possible retirement).

Nonis is under a lot of pressure right now to follow up on Burke's work here... I don't think he's ever going to pull a move off like this... it'd have way too much risk attached.

incawg 05-31-2004 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter
Actually friend, the first three responses addressed the original question then a bunch of Canuck fans jumped in from the Canucks perspective...then it got deraileed. So, if you don't mind I would like to hear what ChiHawk fans think. If I wanted Canuck fans opinions I would have posed it on the board over there. But as I said in my original post I wanted ChiHawks opinion first. Thanks.

The only "derailing" of this thread is your own by complaining about Canucks fans' input. It's a messageboard and Canuck fans are justified in chiming in on a trade proposal involving players on their own team.

Peter 05-31-2004 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
this is where I disagree with you... I don't think there is any way the Canucks deal Bertuzzi at all.

Nonis in his first year as GM of the Canucks, under huge pressure from management, is going to deal off one of their star players, at less value?? dont' see it happening...

the Vancouver public has also supported Bertuzzi more than anyone could have expected... now you tell the public you're dealing him off anyways, and that at a lower price where the product you get back isn't as good... yea... like this isn't going to create a PR nightmare on its own.

then you have the team captain - Bertuzzi's best friend - who's stood by Bert the whole time, made it public how unhappy he felt after the whole incident, supported Bert through it, and has said how much he's looking forward to playing with him next season.

so a good way to alienate your fans (who stood by Bert) is by dealing him... good way to piss off your captain is by dealing his best friend... good way to piss off the fans is by getting less value for a top player, giving them every reason to think that they are looking for the future (1st round pick for a current star player).

I would be extremely shocked if Nonis even thought about dealing Bert... not with Naslund having one year left here (before possible retirement).

Nonis is under a lot of pressure right now to follow up on Burke's work here... I don't think he's ever going to pull a move off like this... it'd have way too much risk attached.

Well, who would have thought the Canucks would have gotten rid of the most successfuly GM in Canuck history - but they did. And why? Many think because Burke was not PR friendly....getting rid of Bertuzzi would be more about keeping Orca Bay looking good PR wise not about talent or keeping players happy. But that's just my opinion. But I do think we agree that Bertuzzi is worth less, right now, than what many Canuck fans feel his real worth is.

Wally112pac 05-31-2004 10:13 PM

Bertuzzi to Florida on draft day? Don't freak out. It's just a rumor i heard.

rupispupis 05-31-2004 11:29 PM

Here's a more realistic trade.

To Chicago - Bertuzzi, 1st 2004
To Vancouver - Nickulas, 1st 2004

GaryU 06-01-2004 09:04 AM

Just to clarify, I'd like to have Bertuzzi on the Hawks. But this is the team that Pully built. And this would be an Enormous move for Mr. Monotone. Of course the uncertainty of his actual return to the ice doesn't help. And then there's that salary. $Bill Wirtz can't even SAY a number over 4.

Peter 06-01-2004 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rupispupis
Here's a more realistic trade.

To Chicago - Bertuzzi, 1st 2004
To Vancouver - Nickulas, 1st 2004

Interesting couinter proposal. The only problem I see, from a Canuck stand point, is that in trading Bertuzzi they are going to want a 30+ goal scorer back. If you assume some risk in Bertuzzi (ie: suspension and negative PR) we take some risk with Daze (whom I orginally asked for) with his injuries. I think the Hawks get more in Bertuzzi than the Canucks would get in Daze. That said, the Canucks (from what I have read and heard) seem keen, as many teams are, on drafting Cam Barker. So perhaps they would be willing to take less back for Bertuzzi in order to get that 3rd pick over all. But I don't think your proposed deal would be enough.

salty justice 06-01-2004 02:06 PM

big Hawks fan here
 
Id take that deal any day! A more offensive and way more physical guy for injury prone and soft Eric Dazey. Hell ya count me in! Bertuzzi can help a team way more than a #3 pick as well.

Theres no way in hell the Canucks would ever make this deal.

NFITO 06-01-2004 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter
Well, who would have thought the Canucks would have gotten rid of the most successfuly GM in Canuck history - but they did. And why? Many think because Burke was not PR friendly....getting rid of Bertuzzi would be more about keeping Orca Bay looking good PR wise not about talent or keeping players happy. But that's just my opinion. But I do think we agree that Bertuzzi is worth less, right now, than what many Canuck fans feel his real worth is.

I don't think you can use one move that an organization makes and use it as a barometer for something else they may do... like saying that it was a surprise move to not bring Burke back so they could surprise us by dealing Bertuzzi.

sure he can be dealt.

So can Matt Cooke and Trevor Linden... it's not likely to happen... but hell Orca Bay surprised us with the Burke decision, so why would they not surprise us by dealing these guys.

or they could go out and make a RFA offer for Pronger at $12 mill - why not?? I mean they just surprised us, didn't they??

anyways, you get what I'm getting at.

Yes I agree with you that his value is down right now... but I don't think there is anyway the team deals him... makes zero sense - less sense than it makes not bringing Burke back.

Look at it this way - from a PR perspective:

- what are the chances that Bertuzzi comes back next year in the NHL and regains his 40 goal game? Might not happen, but is there a chance it happens?

even if that chance is 10%, would a new GM, who unlike Burke, has had no experience in the NHL as a GM, nor has the reputation Burke does, take a risk like that?

Nonis would be taking the risk of losing his job. If Bertuzzi bounces back - and there's, at worst, as good a chance he does as there is he doesn't - then Nonis sells off a premier powerforward in the league, who's in the prime of his career, has chemistry with this team and has such strong ties with the captain - and sells him off at a discounted price.

What GM would do something like this?

Maybe a veteran GM who's got assurances that he'll be in the job for a while.... but a new GM coming in??

Now if you're suggesting it's ownership that will make this deal, then we can pretty much write off the canucks completely... McCaw isn't a GM, and any move that McCammon makes can only hurt the team... but if they move a superstar player in the first year of Nonis' reign as GM, it will create a black cloud over the organization in general... if Nonis fails, what GM is going to want to come here to work under that ownership group.

even outside of that, again going back to the chances of Bertuzzi bouncing back, how would the public react to seeing Bertuzzi dealt off and him going back to his game of a couple years ago? that in itself can create a PR nightmare for the organization.... and that gets worse if he's dealt within the same conference... imagine Bertuzzi and the Hawks facing the canucks - with Bertuzzi back to his old form?

all in all, any way you slice it, I can't figure out why the Canucks would ever deal Bertuzzi at this time... not unless a team pays market value for a superstar PF in his prime - and Bertuzzi considering the situation, isn't going to get that kind of value right now.

rick hawk 06-01-2004 06:41 PM

This Hawk fan would do it in a hearbeat.


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