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-   -   Kovalchuk to Devils UPD: Arbitrator rules in NHL's favor, Kovy UFA again, Post #701+ (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=807498)

mouser 08-08-2010 11:25 AM

Kovalchuk to Devils UPD: Arbitrator rules in NHL's favor, Kovy UFA again, Post #701+
 
Part 6, carry on.

njdevsfn95 08-08-2010 11:36 AM

I love reading all the arguing going on.

Kovalchuk said he was going to play 17 years. Everyone on here, though, was inside is brain to know what he was thinking.

jumptheshark 08-08-2010 11:44 AM

listening to the talking heads--the arbitrator will use Hossa, Luongo, Zetterberg and Frezen's contracts as examples of how the nhl has allowed these contracts

Paranoid Android 08-08-2010 11:48 AM

I don't understand why the NHL decided to extend the current CBA if they have a problem with these contracts...

njdevsfn95 08-08-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumptheshark (Post 27289094)
listening to the talking heads--the arbitrator will use Hossa, Luongo, Zetterberg and Frezen's contracts as examples of how the nhl has allowed these contracts

the arbitrator can't really deny the contract on the basis of age. there are rules regarding ages in the CBA, but none about how long you can sign a player or to how old that player is at the end, etc.

Similar (key word) contracts have been allowed in the past and based off of that, I can't really see how the contract violates expressly written terms of the CBA.

Yes, there is the "cap circumvention" clause, but it is the NHL's job to define and, I am assuming, they must have defined it during the hearing. This is not counting obvious circumventions of say, leaked information regarding a players intention to retire early or a team promising a player a post-playing career job for a lower cap hit (this one is in the CBA).

Perhaps if the full decision is leaked, we ALL will know what circumvention actually means from the NHL itself.

jumptheshark 08-08-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android (Post 27289127)
I don't understand why the NHL decided to extend the current CBA if they have a problem with these contracts...

nhlpa is not ready for another fight right now--so while the current cba has problems--the NHLPA needs to get their house in order

mouser 08-08-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android (Post 27289127)
I don't understand why the NHL decided to extend the current CBA if they have a problem with these contracts...

The NHL did not decide to extend the CBA, the NHLPA did. The NHL does not have an option to cancel the CBA until after 2011-2012.

slapshots1515 08-08-2010 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumptheshark (Post 27289094)
listening to the talking heads--the arbitrator will use Hossa, Luongo, Zetterberg and Frezen's contracts as examples of how the nhl has allowed these contracts

But then...

*sighs*

Nevermind.

I feel like every page of these threads have just been hashing over the exact same thing. Either you believe the Kovalchuk contract is the same as the Hossa contract, or you believe it takes it too far. (With a side of Kings, Devils, and NYR conspiracy theorists just to add on, but that's beside the point.) I don't even feel like it's worth arguing anymore.

Paranoid Android 08-08-2010 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouser (Post 27289152)
The NHL did not decide to extend the CBA, the NHLPA did. The NHL does not have an option to cancel the CBA until after 2011-2012.

Oh, I didn't realize 2011/12 was like an option year. thanks. Surely the NHL will address these contracts after 11/12, right?

What are some potential definitions and rule changes to prevent these contracts?

Contract length limit?
Stricter rules on how much year to year salary can change?
Retired contracts don't come off the books?
Actual salary counts against the cap?

alpine4life 08-08-2010 12:13 PM

Isnt the arbitrator suppose to make a decision by monday? I sure hope so cuz I kinda had enough of all the Kovalchuk/NHL circus...

Please somebody sign him and please shut Bettman up

KINGS17 08-08-2010 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumptheshark (Post 27289145)
nhlpa is not ready for another fight right now--so while the current cba has problems--the NHLPA needs to get their house in order

I agree. This is just the beginning, the NHL owners are looking to crush the PA next go around and are going to want everything on the table in the next CBA. Things like:

1) no guaranteed contracts (just like the NFL)
2) age or length of service conditions for which players can NTC/NMC's in their deals
3) restrictions on the length of contracts
4) reduction in the percentage of revenue the players get

They may even try to get something like what the NBA has in terms of defined "max deals" in an attempt to do away with the player agents as much as possible. In the end I see the players having to give on at least points #2 and #3, and possibly #4.

Live in the Now 08-08-2010 12:23 PM

The site referenced in one of the first few posts is a banned source on this site.

glenwo2 08-08-2010 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 27289469)
I agree. This is just the beginning, the NHL owners are looking to crush the PA next go around and are going to want everything on the table in the next CBA. Things like:

1) no guaranteed contracts (just like the NFL)
2) age or length of service conditions for which players can NTC/NMC's in their deals
3) restrictions on the length of contracts
4) reduction in the percentage of revenue the players get

They may even try to get something like what the NBA has in terms of defined "max deals" in an attempt to do away with the player agents as much as possible. In the end I see the players having to give on at least points #2 and #3, and possibly #4.

I think #1 will NEVER happen. And #2 is going to be very tough to get. 3 and 4, however, will be the easiest to find some middle ground, though.




Quote:

Originally Posted by Live in the Now (Post 27289487)
The site referenced in one of the first few posts is a banned source on this site.

why is it a banned source? :huh:

Jaded-Fan 08-08-2010 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njdevsfn95 (Post 27289026)
I love reading all the arguing going on.

Kovalchuk said he was going to play 17 years. Everyone on here, though, was inside is brain to know what he was thinking.

Oh please. If he really intended to fulfill that cotnract it would not have been structured as it was. Maybe somewhat frontloaded as a guarentee against injury, etc, but to that degree? People are perfectly legitimate in questioning whether he is lying through his teeth. I am a divorce lawyer by trade and see people lie in a court setting every day of the week, and over far less than a hundred million dollars. Everyone knows that the probability of him fulfilling that contract, where something like 97% or so of the #102 million contract is paid in 10 of the 16 years is about next to none, and next to left the station a half hour ago.

Martyros 08-08-2010 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenwo2 (Post 27289615)
why is it a banned source? :huh:

Because it's not even a source?

Live in the Now 08-08-2010 12:53 PM

Exactly.

Anyway, back to the topic.

UAGoalieGuy 08-08-2010 12:55 PM

Let me preface my post by saying that I think that the arbitrator will allow the Kovalchuk contract.

I think the NHL is arguing that they need to draw the line in the sand somewhere with these contracts, specifically because the current CBA doesn't explicitly define certain things, like cap circumvention and length of contracts. Each one of the Luongo, Zetterberg, Franzen, and Hossa contracts are getting progressively worse. Longer terms and taking each player a bit older each time when the contract would expire, while more and more heavily front-loading the contracts. What happens when Crosby is set to become a UFA (I think he does atleast) in three years? Does he get signed to a 19 year contract (takes him to age 45 I think)? Same goes for Malkin. What if Doughty keeps progressing (winning another Norris next year say) and wants to be a life-time King. He'll be 21 when his ELC is up. What's stopping them from offering a 23 year deal, bringing his cap hit down so the Kings can sign some more support players, if the Kovalchuk contract is allowed. I think this is what the NHL is trying to say. Do I think a team would sign a player to a contract that long? No, but it could happen eventually. No one thought a team would give out a 15 year deal before Snow gave one to DP.

Now does the NHL have a right to void a contract based on this slippery-slope idea? That I don't know and i'm glad i'm not the arbitrator in this case.

Zubrus Coffee Maker 08-08-2010 12:56 PM

well, i just want this over with

BLONG7 08-08-2010 01:04 PM

Next CBA...no front loading...should take care of this foolishness....the money given out divided by the number of years...end of story...but, that's for next time...

Lario Melieux* 08-08-2010 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njdevsfn95 (Post 27289026)
I love reading all the arguing going on.

Kovalchuk said he was going to play 17 years. Everyone on here, though, was inside is brain to know what he was thinking.

There's no doubt the contract was structured to have Kovalchuk retire before it ends. And there's no doubt that it was structured to lower the cap hit for the Devils. Please don't insult anyone's intelligence here.

The only question is if it's legal under the CBA.

NYR94 08-08-2010 01:06 PM

Does someone keep a transcript of everything said during the arbitration hearing? I bet the arguments from both sides could prove to be very useful when it comes to writing the player contract portion of the next CBA and removing problematic loopholes.

jumptheshark 08-08-2010 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpine4life (Post 27289386)
Isnt the arbitrator suppose to make a decision by monday? I sure hope so cuz I kinda had enough of all the Kovalchuk/NHL circus...

Please somebody sign him and please shut Bettman up


monday 11am est based upon a tweet from a legit source on friday

bluesfan94 08-08-2010 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan (Post 27289659)
Oh please. If he really intended to fulfill that cotnract it would not have been structured as it was. Maybe somewhat frontloaded as a guarentee against injury, etc, but to that degree? People are perfectly legitimate in questioning whether he is lying through his teeth. I am a divorce lawyer by trade and see people lie in a court setting every day of the week, and over far less than a hundred million dollars. Everyone knows that the probability of him fulfilling that contract, where something like 97% or so of the #102 million contract is paid in 10 of the 16 years is about next to none, and next to left the station a half hour ago.

Just because you suspect he's lying isn't enough to deny the contract. You have to have some evidence that he does intend to retire before the contract ends. And it's not like there isn't precedence with players playing into their early forties. So even though "everyone knows" the probability is "next to none", there still is that chance.

Jaded-Fan 08-08-2010 01:19 PM

An analogy.

You are offered a job that pays $200,000 per year. The job entails a lot of physical stress, at least 82 and perhaps over 100 meetings all over the country, and almost 7 days a week preparation for those meetings even when you are not travelling. but it pays well. Oh yeah, and if you choose you can leave the job in August and forgoe the final four months of the job and all that work and all it will cost you is $5,000.00. You can get another job and earn a lot more than $1,250 per month elsewhere, take a four month vacation, whatever you want.

How many would keep on working at that grueling job for the lat four months at $1,250 per month?

One in a million? A Hundred million? None? I go with none.

Those claiming that Kovalchuk will complete this deal really are standing on ground that most would laugh at.

Martyros 08-08-2010 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan (Post 27290008)
An analogy.

You are offered a job that pays $200,000 per year. The job entails a lot of physical stress, at least 82 and perhaps over 100 meetings all over the country, and almost 7 days a week preparation for those meetings even when you are not travelling. but it pays well. Oh yeah, and if you choose you can leave the job in August and forgoe the final four months of the job and all that work and all it will cost you is $5,000.00. You can get another job and earn a lot more than $1,250 per month elsewhere, take a four month vacation, whatever you want.

How many would keep on working at that grueling job for the lat four months at $1,250 per month?

One in a million? A Hundred million? None? I go with none.

Those claiming that Kovalchuk will complete this deal really are standing on ground that most would laugh at.

but...but..but.... Kovalchuk said he intends to play until he's 44!!!!!


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