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-   -   wendel clark|trevor linden (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=811087)

the edler 08-19-2010 02:10 PM

wendel clark|trevor linden
 
who was the better player?

clark's 5 best seasons

64 46+30 76
80 37+23 60
71 32+26 58
65 30+19 49
77 32+16 48

nhl 793 330+234 564
playoffs 95 37+32 69

linden's 5 best seasons

82 33+47 80
80 31+44 75
84 33+39 72
80 33+37 70
84 32+29 61

nhl 1382 375+492 867
playoffs 124 34+65 99

BraveCanadian 08-19-2010 02:21 PM

I liked them both but I'm a Leaf fan so Captain Crunch all the way for me.

JaymzB 08-19-2010 03:16 PM

Linden had the better career, Clark was the more impactful player.

arrbez 08-19-2010 03:21 PM

Wendel Wendel Wendel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IggyFan12 08-19-2010 04:54 PM

As a Flames fan i give respect to Linden one of the few Cannuck players I respect. The guy could do it all, and was a heart and soul guy.

Starchild74 08-19-2010 07:11 PM

I loved Wendel Clark he was one of my favourite players in the NHL. I loved the way he played and his style and was a very good player and was good in cluch situations and had an amazing snap shot.

However no one can honestly say that he was a better player or had a better career then Linden. Trevor Linden was one of the best leaders ever. ALso the problem is Wendle Clark was injured alot. Yes it was becasue of the style he played but Linden was no slouch to hitting and fighting either

Linden lead his team to one win of the Stanley Cup and went toe to toe with Mark Messier that year as to was going to lead their team to victory. I mean Messier got the game winner but Linden scored both goals for Vancouver.

Also people saw Clark play more as Canucks games were not on tv too much so people did not see LInden as much especially when he was first starting off. Something has to be said for longevity. I mean he played 1000 games was really good in the playoffs. What does Clark beat Linden at really. Games lost to injury?
Do not get me wrong if I was picking from my heart I would want Clark on my team every day. However the way their careers went I would have to pick Linden. He was more consistent and realiable

I honestly believe Trevor Linden is one of the most underated players to play. One of the most underated captains ever. He might never have won a cup but I ask you of all the guys out there I would be hard pressed to name a guy who competed more every night then Linden for his team. He was the Canucks and never should have been traded away. He was not the most talented player in the game, He did not have the talent that a Messier or Yzerman had, yet I would compare him to them as far as leadership went.

Maple Leafs fans might pick Clark but they are picking from their heart. Clark was one of the most loved Leafs ever but just becaused you loved watching remember one thing. In the first 9 years of his career which were with Toronto, the Leafs played 728 games however Clark only played 463 of those games, which is only 64% of the games. I believe that for a player to be really important to a team they should be able to play alot more then only 64% of the time.

I think this is a good comparison because Wendel Clark had talent no question but sometimes it is not just talent that makes a player great it is being able to play every day especially if it is about being a leader too. You can have all the talent in the world but if you can't dress then who is more important to there team, and who is better.

arrbez 08-19-2010 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starchild74 (Post 27451488)
What does Clark beat Linden at really. Games lost to injury?

Really? You can't think of a single thing Wendel Clark was better at?

How about goal scoring? Or physical play? Or the ability to put the fear of God into opponents with one look?

Can't argue about longevity, but at their best I take Wendel every day of the week. He was a huge game-changer, and money when the pressure was on.

Starchild74 08-19-2010 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrbez (Post 27452228)
Really? You can't think of a single thing Wendel Clark was better at?

How about goal scoring? Or physical play? Or the ability to put the fear of God into opponents with one look?

Can't argue about longevity, but at their best I take Wendel every day of the week. He was a huge game-changer, and money when the pressure was on.

Wendel Clark was so much of a better goal scorer? Both had 6 30 goal seasons. Yes Clark did have 46 in one year, although he did have a better shot then Linden. Oh my comment was more of a joke. Do not get so defensive about the all mighty Clark. If you read my post you will know he was one of my favourite players.

Physically I think it is even. Linden could hit as hard as anyone. Now maybe Clark to you had many more but once again how much of Linden did you see.

Fear of god into opponents. Really? That is what makes one better. Ulf Samuelsson put the fear of God in players too for being such a cheap shot artist. Also how many games did he play? Where was there to put the fear of god in those games.

At their best you would take Clark. Let me guess it was becasue he was more physical, a better scorer and put the fear of god into the opposition. It is funny Linden was not too afraid of Clark when the Canucks beat the Leafs in '94. I would not say he was much more clutch then Linden. In fact because he was either injured or could not help lead the Leafs to the Final I have to give it to Linden. Plus with the Leafs here is the question who was more clutch Clark or Gilmour? Who was more of a leader? In Vancouver Linden might not have been the most skilled player but he was truly their heart and soul no question there.

I never said it was a landslide I just do not know how anyone who is not biased can say Clark was better then Linden. Like I said my favourite of the two players is Clark. However one has to put favourites aside when picking who was better and not just who you like more

arrbez 08-19-2010 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starchild74 (Post 27452535)
Wendel Clark was so much of a better goal scorer? Both had 6 30 goal seasons. Yes Clark did have 46 in one year, although he did have a better shot then Linden.

On top of having the three highest season totals, Wendel Clark has the 10 highest goals-per-game finishes between the two of them. Career-wise, Linden has an extra 45 goals, and it took him 500 more games to do it. Clark was clearly a better goal scorer.

arrbez 08-19-2010 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starchild74 (Post 27452535)
Fear of god into opponents. Really? That is what makes one better. Ulf Samuelsson put the fear of God in players too for being such a cheap shot artist. Also how many games did he play? Where was there to put the fear of god in those games.

I'm not sure what you're getting at? Are you suggesting Wendel Clark went around taking runs at player's knees and refused to fight like Ulf?

Or are you saying that intimidation has no value? Clark was one of the most devastating fighters ever, and he'd go with anyone. To have a legit heavyweight enforcer who can play alongside your other star players and pot 35 goals a year? That's crazy valuable.

Ohashi_Jouzu 08-19-2010 10:20 PM

Pretty clearly Linden. I can understand all the aspects that Clark fans will point to as to why they liked him. But if you're among those who would actually choose Clark over Linden, I suspect there is no amount of detailed and well-articulated replying to this thread that is ever going to change your mind. Such is the way of the world when it comes to fan favourite former Leafs.

seventieslord 08-20-2010 02:23 AM

Wendel was best in each player's respective best games. And he is my second player. But you'd have to be blind not to take Linden.

goalscoring: Peak Clark, Longevity/Consistency Linden
playmaking: easily Linden
skating: even
leadership: even
defense: easily Linden
playoffs: easily Linden (even though clark was very good)

Starchild74 08-20-2010 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrbez (Post 27452806)
On top of having the three highest season totals, Wendel Clark has the 10 highest goals-per-game finishes between the two of them. Career-wise, Linden has an extra 45 goals, and it took him 500 more games to do it. Clark was clearly a better goal scorer.

Yes Clark has a better goals per game then Linden and yes the top 3 season compared to the two. However once again you are missing the big picture. Clark missed alot of games. Would you rather a guy who scores 30 goals but only plays half the season or a guy who scores 30 and plays a full season. Now before you go and check I am just using this as an example not real stats. I would much rather have a guy who plays the full year. Linden was there when his team needed him most of the time. For the first 9 seasons Clark was with the leafs 36% of the time when the Leafs needed him he was on the sideline. Remember we are not talking about one year or two years. We are talking a career.

Yes it took Linden 500 games to score 45 more goals. Linden was just consistent especially in his career. Do not get me wrong Clark could have had a better career and maybe could have been a super star power forward like Cam Neely, but he wasn't. He was loved by the leafs and rightfully so and I might give the edge as far as skill to Clark in goal scoring in the end he just wasn't consistent enough that is all.

Starchild74 08-20-2010 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrbez (Post 27452868)
I'm not sure what you're getting at? Are you suggesting Wendel Clark went around taking runs at player's knees and refused to fight like Ulf?

Or are you saying that intimidation has no value? Clark was one of the most devastating fighters ever, and he'd go with anyone. To have a legit heavyweight enforcer who can play alongside your other star players and pot 35 goals a year? That's crazy valuable.

What I am saying is that intimidation does not have that much value. Remember if Clark was as feared as you say he was. How would that affect the opposition for 36% of Toronto games in his first 9 seasons he played. For those games he was on the sideline and could not do anything. That is why being a consistent player like Linden and a guy who plays more games is better. I mean you have to admit that Linden was a physical player and did alot for his team, Which of course Clark did that too. Now think fo this everything you said Clark can do besides score that helped the Leafs. Not just the goals but hitting and fighting etc.. Now imagine that the Leafs had him for alot more game at least an extra 20% of the games then what happens. Not only does he score more but Toronto has a better chance to win. Now go to Vancouver and take Trevor Linden away for at least 20% percent of their games. The Canucks do not win as many games becasue of what he did. SO who was better a guy? was it the guy who was their every day or a guy who was only their 2/3 of the season? Who did more for his team who was more valuable? Remember it is not about what if or what might have been it is what happened in a players career. Linden had the better career overall no question about it. He was the captain who was at practice practicing hard. He lead by example he did whatever the team needed and he was good offensively too. We haven't even talked about how much better he was defensively then Clark as well

Yes Wendel clark was a very good fighter and really you could say underated. However is that what puts him on top. Linden would fight with anyone too. He might lose the fight sometimes more so then Clark but alot of times it is not that the player wins the fight it is showing his heart and the team he is willing to stand up for his teamates. In the end yes Clark was a better fighter but if that is why you are saying he is better then Linden, then you are reaching.

begbeee 08-20-2010 03:28 AM

Linden is better. Clark was more entertaining.
For Linden... after his he was traded from Canucks he really went out of radar.

Regal 08-20-2010 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventieslord (Post 27455883)
Wendel was best in each player's respective best games. And he is my second player. But you'd have to be blind not to take Linden.

goalscoring: Peak Clark, Longevity/Consistency Linden
playmaking: easily Linden
skating: even
leadership: even
defense: easily Linden
playoffs: easily Linden (even though clark was very good)

This is essentially how I see it.

One thing you could add as well is durability: easily Linden. While I do think per game averages have their places, when you have similar level players it's hard not to give the edge to a guy who didn't miss a game during his best six year stretch.

You could probably add that Clark was also one of the few players that provided a tangible intimidation factor, but Linden was no slouch physically either.

cynicism 08-20-2010 07:57 AM

I'm a Leaf fan, and a huge fan of Clark, but I'm going with Linden on this.

Fredrik_71 08-20-2010 10:13 AM

Wendel Clark definitely had a cooler stache ;)

/Cheers

the edler 08-20-2010 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventieslord (Post 27455883)
playmaking: easily Linden

yes and linden wasn't even a very good playmaker, he was a good passer but really nothing special in the playmaking aspect of the game, even a guy like pavel bure, who wasn't known to pass the puck that much, easily posted more assists per season in vancouver

clark's high with 30 assists in a season leaves you a little puzzled, i mean even andreas dackell could do better than that :amazed:

LeBlondeDemon10 08-20-2010 09:59 PM

I`d take Wendel any day of the week over Linden.

timekeep 08-21-2010 02:11 AM

Wendel changed games with a timely goal or a massive hit or fighting anyone (and usually winning it).

He also played for the Leafs when there was nothing but headaches.

Also remember Wendel put up over 200 PIMs twice and 100 PIMs another 6 seasons. Linden on went over 100 once.

Puck Scorer 08-21-2010 03:19 PM

Clark

Midnight Oil 08-21-2010 03:31 PM

Career wise I'd take Linden prime wise I'd take Clark

Hardyvan123 08-21-2010 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaymzB (Post 27448388)
Linden had the better career, Clark was the more impactful player.

Clark is the myth here as Linden had the better peak, career and leadership in adjusted seasons.

I don't love Linden as much as some in this town but Clark was really overrated.

Epsilon 08-21-2010 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 (Post 27474867)
Clark is the myth here as Linden had the better peak, career and leadership in adjusted seasons.

I don't love Linden as much as some in this town but Clark was really overrated.

Agreed, Clark is a solid contender for the most overrated player in NHL history.


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