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-   -   OT: Do you guys hate Dan Ellis? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=816765)

Chileiceman 09-07-2010 12:39 AM

Do you guys hate Dan Ellis?
 
So Dan Ellis made some dumb tweets about how escrow gives him financial problems, and someone started a #DanEllisProblems hashtag. There it seems the people enjoying it most are Preds fans, so it would lead me to believe that he was an ass or something during his time in Nashville. I also found a fake Dan Ellis account that had been started before all this ( http://twitter.com/dellis39 ) by what looks like a Preds fan.

Amanda71 09-07-2010 01:04 AM

I don't hate the guy simply because I don't know him. But he made some very ignorant tweets that rightly pissed a lot of people off. A player making league minimum is still doing a hell of a lot better than a lot of people in this country. Maybe if Dan Ellis had to work a regular job and make the average salary, he'd realize exactly how stupid he sounded.

If Paul Bissonnette had to take down his Twitter for the Kovalchuk comments, then the least Dan Ellis can do is apologize to the people who support his salary, especially since people who really do risk their lives every day (policemen, firefighters, soliders, etc) contribute to his paycheck.

dulzhok 09-07-2010 01:18 AM

He's a nice guy.

I wouldn't say what he said was ignorant, though... just something that wasn't wise to say to the public.

I see where he's come from, though. Government is taking 50%, and he has another 18% that goes to escrow. Still a good lump of money, and he has a right to his opinion, but it was not good PR to tell it to the twitter world.

worstfaceoffmanever 09-07-2010 03:39 AM

Ellis never gave the fan base any reason to dislike him. In fact, I'd always rather enjoyed reading his Tweets.

There will always be some bitter "serves you right for going for the money" types in any fan base, but I don't think anyone posting here would carry that attitude because we were all pretty certain that he was leaving even before Rinne's extension...

TMI 09-07-2010 06:50 AM

I have the opinion that only those in the highest tax bracket have the right to complain about taxes. No I don't hate him. He complained about something on Twitter. I don't have an account, but if I did I'm sure I'd complain about things on Twitter, too.

triggrman 09-07-2010 08:35 AM

Everyone loves someone that will give their opinion until that opinion differs from their own beliefs....

KYJones649 09-07-2010 09:29 AM

When Ellis was in Nashville, I enjoyed and supported him. Especially watching games on TV, Dan would talk every third period to the camera crew. "Oh absolutely" Seemed like a nice guy, a family man, and reading his tweets confirmed it....until a couple of months ago. When he started tweeting about buying a new jaguar, rims, big houses, and what really ticked me off is when he started bad mouthing the fans that were supportive of him while in NSH. The recent string of dumb tweets, (I don't make enough $$ boohoo) while I agree everyone has their opinion, just confirms to me that he isn't the NHL role model I thought he was.

So, no I don't hate him, but my opinion of him has changed quite a bit.

PredsV82 09-07-2010 09:48 AM

I havent read the tweets, but there are two sides to the "athlete salary" storyline.

on the one hand, Ellis is making more money than 99% of the workers in this country who are struggling to make ends meet, so he shouldnt expect sympathy from the general public.

however, when you realize that most pro athletes window to earn money for their entire lifetime is in most cases 5 years or less, you can see his point.

The thing is, Escrow means that he will get it all back, or most of it anyway, if the league revenues meet the target. So its just deferred not taken away for good in most cases.

David Singleton 09-07-2010 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PredsV82 (Post 27686128)
I havent read the tweets, but there are two sides to the "athlete salary" storyline.

on the one hand, Ellis is making more money than 99% of the workers in this country who are struggling to make ends meet, so he shouldnt expect sympathy from the general public.

however, when you realize that most pro athletes window to earn money for their entire lifetime is in most cases 5 years or less, you can see his point.

The thing is, Escrow means that he will get it all back, or most of it anyway, if the league revenues meet the target. So its just deferred not taken away for good in most cases.

Without researching (as I just don't have the time at the moment), I believe that players are not being refunded from last season (or likely from the past couple of seasons)- at least not much of their escrow payments.

I base that on the fact that the salary cap has been artificially increasing due to the "kicker" that the NHLPA has voted in every season since the lockout while actual revenues have not really supported that kind of uptick over the past several seasons. When that happens, the numbers that build the salary cap are skewed further away from the numbers that go into linkage- in this case causing players to not be refunded much of their escrow payment.

It's also the reason that players have such difficulty with the escrow process in general. The increase in front-loaded contracts and the impact of the artificial "inflationers" to the salary cap have exacerbated the situation.

Linkage needs the escrow process to work, and linkage will not go away. Yet, escrow is likely the single largest issue for the NHLPA. While there will be many issues to be bargained in the next CBA, I expect many (if not most) will be focused on efforts to find ways of controlling escrow payments (and also be the most contentious as well).

BigFatCat999 09-07-2010 11:14 AM

Could not care less. People have problems when they spend to their salary level not living below their means. I'm job hunting and spending like the soul of the baby Jesus depends on it. Because of savings I'm surviving on unemployment. (Do I like it? Nope)

The first thing Ellis talked about when he signed his new contract was going out and buying a Jag. I shook my head.

All people complain about money. It's a natural reaction. Billionaires complain about money.

My God father gave me the best advice on money. Look at it as a symbol of your hard work and manhours in a measurable form.

kivaerijo 09-07-2010 12:18 PM

like someone said, i dont hate him...but i might think differently of him now though. i would like to see what he wrote about the pred fans though...that could get me to hate him...along with hamhuis

Bad Karma 09-07-2010 12:35 PM

I don't hate him, I couldn't care less about what he says. However if he thinks the backlash over this is big, wait till he has a bad game or season. His "specialist" talk will become a bigger joke than his money issue. He may have to show up with a mask on (no pun intended) to collect his check.

dulzhok 09-07-2010 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kivaerijo (Post 27687192)
like someone said, i dont hate him...but i might think differently of him now though. i would like to see what he wrote about the pred fans though...that could get me to hate him...along with hamhuis

what did Hamhuis say?

Viqsi 09-07-2010 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WKUPredsFan (Post 27686012)
When Ellis was in Nashville, I enjoyed and supported him. Especially watching games on TV, Dan would talk every third period to the camera crew. "Oh absolutely" Seemed like a nice guy, a family man, and reading his tweets confirmed it....until a couple of months ago. When he started tweeting about buying a new jaguar, rims, big houses, and what really ticked me off is when he started bad mouthing the fans that were supportive of him while in NSH. The recent string of dumb tweets, (I don't make enough $$ boohoo) while I agree everyone has their opinion, just confirms to me that he isn't the NHL role model I thought he was.

So, no I don't hate him, but my opinion of him has changed quite a bit.

Enh. He's just being straightforward about what he faces. I'd be a bit more annoyed too, except I'm more annoyed by false modesty.

As has also been mentioned elsewhere, he's not going to be earning anything like that after age 40 or 45 or so. Yes, there's athletes out there who are stupid about finances and run themselves bankrupt early; IMO they deserve what they get. But Ellis, I think, seems to be genuinely interested in long-term support (why else would he go out and pick up long-term investments like homes?).

And yes, that includes the car. Hey, if you got a raise above and beyond your existing financial plans, you'd probably splurge a little too. ;) Now, if he starts creating a twenty-car garage...


And on a total side note, if it takes the token Jackets fan around here to notice that that's a first post and say "Hi, welcome to the board!", then this place is really going downhill. ;)



Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 (Post 27686688)
My God father gave me the best advice on money. Look at it as a symbol of your hard work and manhours in a measurable form.

I wonder if I should talk to him sometime during New Years about the unmeasured part of the value of working for a not-for-profit. I imagine that would be an interesting conversation. :D


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Karma (Post 27687345)
I don't hate him, I couldn't care less about what he says. However if he thinks the backlash over this is big, wait till he has a bad game or season. His "specialist" talk will become a bigger joke than his money issue. He may have to show up with a mask on (no pun intended) to collect his check.

The "specialist" talk was both accurate and ridiculously poorly presented. One must consider that one's audience doesn't really think of athletes after age 40 unless they're Chris Chelios or Brett Farve and thus fails to recognize that they don't exactly cease to exist after that point.

Salaries are still pretty high after you normalize 'em over a standard 18-to-65 career, but they're not outrageous. So it seemed reasonable to me.


Quote:

Originally Posted by dulzhok (Post 27687435)
what did Hamhuis say?

Something along the lines of how it's nice to finally be in a real hockey market or something equally detracting. I don't quite recall the details; I just remember thinking "oh, geez, that's going to draw a backlash."

kivaerijo 09-07-2010 12:52 PM

hamhuis said somewhere when he was announced as a canuck that "there are more people here in july than there are fans at a pred game in december" paraphrasing. while may be true, didnt need to be said that way imo. so now i have some issues with him

BigFatCat999 09-07-2010 01:15 PM

I really couldn't give two flying flips about Ellis' comments but HOW COULD I RESIST! When the guy's last name is made of a Euro symbol, two British Pound Symbols, I, and a dollar sign?

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...t999/ellis.jpg

KYJones649 09-07-2010 01:17 PM

Thanks Viqsi for the welcome! :laugh: I'm a long time reader, first time poster!

I agree that when people get money, we all splurge. And yes, if someone cut my salary I'd be mad. But I don't make near what a professional athlete makes (Heck, I'm a graduate student and it costs me an arm and leg just to afford 2 full season tickets). If he wants to complain do it in the locker room to his peers, not on a public social site...whatcha expect to happen, us to feel sorry for him?

So, like I said...I don't hate the guy, but I expected more from him than this. Everyone's got their opinions though!

I guess this is my official introduction to the boards! Finally broke and posted :yo: If anybody is interested in talking Hockey, it's always cool making new friends from the same/different hockey markets!

Jarnberg 09-07-2010 01:32 PM

Because a few people on twitter = the entire Predators fan base.

Viqsi 09-07-2010 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 27687863)
Because a few people on twitter = the entire Predators fan base.

I regularly read Canadian newspapers and I don't believe that in the slightest. There's just no way anybody down in the Hick South knows how to use Twitter. :sarcasm:

BigFatCat999 09-07-2010 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viqsi (Post 27688217)
I regularly read Canadian newspapers and I don't believe that in the slightest. There's just no way anybody down in the Hick South knows how to use Twitter. :sarcasm:

She's back! Shalom dahlin', Shalom!

Viqsi 09-07-2010 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 (Post 27688320)
She's back! Shalom dahlin', Shalom!

Thank you, thank you! I'll be here all week! Try the soup special. Don't forget to tip your waitress. ;)

dabid 09-07-2010 02:50 PM

dan ellis is the man

Joe T Choker 09-07-2010 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dabid (Post 27688854)
dan ellis is the man


Nitrous Mafia 09-07-2010 03:09 PM

I have no ill will towards the man. Although, I haven't read any of his tweets in question.

PredsV82 09-07-2010 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Singleton (Post 27686205)
Without researching (as I just don't have the time at the moment), I believe that players are not being refunded from last season (or likely from the past couple of seasons)- at least not much of their escrow payments.

I base that on the fact that the salary cap has been artificially increasing due to the "kicker" that the NHLPA has voted in every season since the lockout while actual revenues have not really supported that kind of uptick over the past several seasons. When that happens, the numbers that build the salary cap are skewed further away from the numbers that go into linkage- in this case causing players to not be refunded much of their escrow payment.

It's also the reason that players have such difficulty with the escrow process in general. The increase in front-loaded contracts and the impact of the artificial "inflationers" to the salary cap have exacerbated the situation.

Linkage needs the escrow process to work, and linkage will not go away. Yet, escrow is likely the single largest issue for the NHLPA. While there will be many issues to be bargained in the next CBA, I expect many (if not most) will be focused on efforts to find ways of controlling escrow payments (and also be the most contentious as well).

I really dont think the PA has anyone to blame but themselves then.

If they keep allowing the cap to go up, knowing full well that revenues arent going to match, they should realize that screws the little guys far worse than it does the 6 mil a year players who are what is driving the cap up.

seems to me the couple hundred guys making under a mil per should all outvote the big bucks guys and say 'no" to the 'kicker'


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