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-   -   Report: "screaming matches" with DeBoer led to Ballard trade (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=819193)

gizmo12688 09-15-2010 12:47 PM

Report: "screaming matches" with DeBoer led to Ballard trade
 
http://www.litterboxcats.com/2010/9/...g-matches-with

What do you guys make of this?

panthersfan751 09-15-2010 12:52 PM

If it's true, then DeBoer needs to fully realize he's in the NHL and not in juniors.

We all wanted new blood from outside the organization (instead of a retread) when Martin stepped down as coach, but in hindsight, hiring a coach straight out of juniors with no professional experience looks like a very questionable decision. I don't think DeBoer was ready for the NHL when we hired him, and unless we see better results, we can't just continue to spend years letting him learn on the job.

Panthers Rock 09-15-2010 12:53 PM

To be fair though, Ballard deserved to be yelled at quite a bit this year, he was a shadow of his former self.

If there really are issues though, you'll find out when DeBoer is replaced (whenever that may be, obviously it will happen one day).

panthersfan751 09-15-2010 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panthers Rock (Post 27788465)
To be fair though, Ballard deserved to be yelled at quite a bit this year, he was a shadow of his former self.

If there really are issues though, you'll find out when DeBoer is replaced (whenever that may be, obviously it will happen one day).

While Ballard did play poorly, how many more incidents need to occur before we draw the line with DeBoer? And if this is true, the Boynton incident looks more and more like it was DeBoer's fault.

gizmo12688 09-15-2010 01:15 PM

Can you really blame DeBoer for treating the players like juniors when that's how some of them played last season?

FlaPanthers7 09-15-2010 01:18 PM

"The Panther players are quick to let everyone know, of course, because DeBoer is extremely unpopular with most of the Florida players because he largely treats them like juniors."

If this is true this is a big, big problem. You are dealing with grown men and professionals, not amateur teenagers anymore. That could really lose the respect of some of the vets and could mean DB is out after this year if they don't make the playoffs (which is still a miracle on my opinion).

gizmo12688 09-15-2010 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlaPanthers7 (Post 27788871)
"The Panther players are quick to let everyone know, of course, because DeBoer is extremely unpopular with most of the Florida players because he largely treats them like juniors."

If this is true this is a big, big problem. You are dealing with grown men and professionals, not amateur teenagers anymore. That could really lose the respect of some of the vets and could mean DB is out after this year if they don't make the playoffs (which is still a miracle on my opinion).

Well first things first, it's hard to even say any of the information is true. The writer of that article mentioned is from the The Vancouver Province. Ballard only said that there were a couple of yelling matches between himself and Deboer.

And if he was unpopular with any Panther, I'd imagine it'd be Horton anyway.

16Skippy 09-15-2010 01:51 PM

It's mostly a little he-said-she-said right now, but I would imagine there was some bad blood between PDB and the players after the Boynton incident. Come to think of it, we've pretty much sucked since that incident.

Georgia Panther 09-15-2010 01:53 PM

On the other hand, with a roster that figures to be as young as the Panthers the next couple years, a coach that treats them like "juniors" may be just what the doctor ordered.:nod:

CHGoalie27 09-15-2010 02:08 PM

Well maybe Ballard had a bad year for a reason other than "he's dumb or lacks skill" (which he doesn't)

...and what 16Skippy said...

panthersfan751 09-15-2010 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlaPanthers7 (Post 27788871)
"The Panther players are quick to let everyone know, of course, because DeBoer is extremely unpopular with most of the Florida players because he largely treats them like juniors."

If this is true this is a big, big problem. You are dealing with grown men and professionals, not amateur teenagers anymore. That could really lose the respect of some of the vets and could mean DB is out after this year if they don't make the playoffs (which is still a miracle on my opinion).

I agree. He needs to be able to deal with professionals and treat them as such.

If these problems persist, then DeBoer shouldn't be here. Sure this roster isn't the most talented, but the bottom line is that DeBoer has already had two incidents where players got upset with him, and he's made many other questionable choices in his 2 years here. If he doesn't show some signs of improvement this year, then I don't think DeBoer's contract should be renewed.

RobbieCap 09-15-2010 02:27 PM

Whats with the junior guys (DeBoer with florida, and Groulx when he was in Rochester) both of these guys seem to have no respect for veteran players. Both of them seem like they don't know too much about vets and how the nhl works with players... you can't treat guys making pretty big money like kids, because they will tune you out faster than you can say jack robinson

RainingRats 09-15-2010 02:33 PM

What does it mean, "treats them like juniors?"

Pete's 93 point season says hello

Panthers Rock 09-15-2010 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieCap (Post 27789857)
Whats with the junior guys (DeBoer with florida, and Groulx when he was in Rochester) both of these guys seem to have no respect for veteran players. Both of them seem like they don't know too much about vets and how the nhl works with players... you can't treat guys making pretty big money like kids, because they will tune you out faster than you can say jack robinson

Well when they don't produce like they're being paid, I'd treat them like kids too until they get it through their heads what they should be doing out there.

Erick 09-15-2010 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainingRats (Post 27789946)
What does it mean, "treats them like juniors?"

Pete's 93 point season says hello

I guess that's what happens when you have elite goaltending from both your starter and backup. It always helps.
Quite honestly, I've never been a big fan of DeBoer. People also loved blaming Kitchen, as if he wasn't one of DeBoer's guys.

I'm hoping he gets fired, at some point, and Tallon gets somebody else, whoever that may be.

RainingRats 09-15-2010 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick (Post 27790471)
I guess that's what happens when you have elite goaltending from both your starter and backup. It always helps.
Quite honestly, I've never been a big fan of DeBoer. People also loved blaming Kitchen, as if he wasn't one of DeBoer's guys.

I'm hoping he gets fired, at some point, and Tallon gets somebody else, whoever that may be.

It isn't fair not to give Pete credit for the 93 point season just like he is responsible for this past one.

Laus723 09-15-2010 03:18 PM

Tallon quickly hired Quenneville in a short season, I think DeBo will be sent packing sooner than later.

RainingRats 09-15-2010 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laus723 (Post 27790604)
Tallon quickly hired Quenneville in a short season, I think DeBo will be sent packing sooner than later.

I think Pete stays the whole season because they wont want to spend money on another coach.

Laus723 09-15-2010 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainingRats (Post 27790631)
I think Pete stays the whole season because they wont want to spend money on another coach.

Probably true, I was mostly just saying that i don't think DeBoer's in the long-term plans of the team.

panthersfan751 09-15-2010 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainingRats (Post 27790555)
It isn't fair not to give Pete credit for the 93 point season just like he is responsible for this past one.

I give him credit for getting us to 93 points and that team was fun to watch. We didn't make the playoffs however, and only down here is missing the playoffs on a tiebreaker considered a successful season. And the team really regressed last season.

I May Be Wrong 09-15-2010 03:46 PM

I thought Pete was awesome the first season in FLA. He seemed like he really rallied the troops and we had our best season in awhile, but things started getting a bit dicey at the end of that season, and then this season, how miserable. Not sure whats going on here, but Boynton, and now supposedly Ballard?

Does "where there is smoke, there is fire" apply to this?

zeroG 09-15-2010 03:52 PM

probably neither here nor there. i'm not sold on pete but a shouting match or two, especially with the **** season ballard had last year (had to know CH would show up and try to excuse ballard) really doesn't mean that much.

and it's rather irresponsible for this writer to say:

Quote:

The Panther players are quick to let everyone know, of course, because DeBoer is extremely unpopular with most of the Florida players because he largely treats them like juniors.
with no substantiation, i give that absolutely no weight.

ultimately, the proof is seen on the ice. can this team establish an identity and play to it night in and night out? i'm not talking about wins and losses, i'm talking about consistent effort, adherence to systems/philosophies, compete, etc. it seemed like they were on the right track 2 years ago (it wasn't *all* vokoun and andy) but last year was not as encouraging. there have obviously been mitigating circumstances, though (personnel, management, ownership, learning curve, etc.) as well.

the reality is that it's not about which system or philosophy you install, it's whether the guys in the room buy what you're selling. i think the jury is still out on pete, imo.

Erick 09-15-2010 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainingRats (Post 27790555)
It isn't fair not to give Pete credit for the 93 point season just like he is responsible for this past one.

I guess Kitchen deserves credit for the 93 point season, as well, then.
Works both ways.

At the end of the day, we didn't make the playoffs, and DeBoer's coaching that season down the stretch (specifically with Boynton) didn't help team chemistry, I'm sure.

DeBoer has gotten a lot of credit for doing a lot of nothing. He's lucky he's coaching in South Florida.

FlaPanthers7 09-15-2010 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainingRats (Post 27789946)
What does it mean, "treats them like juniors?"

Pete's 93 point season says hello

It also says what have you done for me lately? :p:

Yes, it's a bit of he-said, she-said, but we have new owners and a new GM so I don't doubt Pete may very well be on a short leash with Tallon itching to bring in his own guy. Whether it's due to the latter or to issues with players, Pete's had his up and downs. One of those questionable choices he made was his assistant coaches & keeping them so long.

I just hope the players are still buying into his system and this isn't true b/c it would make what's looking like a poor to mediocre season (at best) even worse.

KWGoon 09-15-2010 04:11 PM

Even though expectations are low among the fans, I don't think Tallon views this as a throw away season. He'll want to see what this team can do. If they play well, it bodes well for next year. If it goes poorly, getting the first pick won't resolve all that much. So I think Laus was right, DeBoer is already on a short leash, even if only in Tallon's mind. DT does not want a mediocre season if he can help it, and if the coach is the problem, there will be a quick fix.

BTW it's probably not a coincidence that the two arguments we've heard about are PDB versus the two close friends. Is this Ballard's revenge for the Boynton incident?


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