HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   National Hockey League Talk (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60)
-   -   Best/Worst coach in the league (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=82047)

KH1 06-04-2004 12:28 PM

Best/Worst coach in the league
 
Well...who is it? I would say that right now the best is Jaques Lemaire (maybe Tortarella) and the worst has to be Brian Sutter of the Chicago Blackhawks. Of course there were worse coaches in the league, but thankfully most of them were fired. I think that Lemaire has done the most with the least talent all throughout his career and how Sutter managed to turn a 96 point team 2 years ago into the laughingstock of the league is beyond me. Your thoughts?

Bill McNeal 06-04-2004 12:34 PM

I think the best are Lemaire and Hitchcock. Tortorella is a good coach, but he needs a few more years to make a name for himself. Sutter is also good.

As for the worst... There's so many mediocre ones out there. Right now, I'd probably say Tony Granato, but I'm probably overlooking people.

Lionel Hutz 06-04-2004 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Albino
I think the best are Lemaire and Hitchcock. Tortorella is a good coach, but he needs a few more years to make a name for himself. Sutter is also good.

As for the worst... There's so many mediocre ones out there. Right now, I'd probably say Tony Granato, but I'm probably overlooking people.

Best: Sutter

Worst: Granato

Lamire has contributed nothing to the game except a series of unbearable and unwatchable teams.

canucksfan 06-04-2004 12:44 PM

Best Coach Hitchcock

Worst Granato

Lionel Hutz 06-04-2004 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucksfan
Best Coach Hitchcock

Worst Granato

Hitch: what have you done for me lately?

pappa jan 06-04-2004 12:54 PM

best: sutter

worst: sutter

i guess you know which one is which.

Lionel Hutz 06-04-2004 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappa jan
best: sutter

worst: sutter

i guess you know which one is which.

assuming you don't mean the same guy is best and worst at the same time ;)

Malefic74 06-04-2004 01:01 PM

The job description of a coach is to win. With whatever personnel is around. As such you can't dismiss the work of Lemaire just because he coaches a boring style. It works. He wins. With a low payroll. It's up to other coaches to figure out systems better than his. Ditto for Hitchcock or any other defense-first style coach.

But judging by his recent success and the fact that his team is no more expensive than the aforementioned Wild I would say that Darryl Sutter is the best coach in the NHL right now.

The worst? His brother Brian is doing a fine job embarrassing Chicago. Granato seems a touch overwhelmed in Colorado. Until they stepped down last season both Glen Sather and Doug Maclean were pretty awful behind the bench. My pick? Dave Tippett in Dallas. Struggled with line combinations all season long, even when the team was healthy, and was outcoached by Granato in round 1. 'Nuff said.

Lionel Hutz 06-04-2004 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malefic74
The job description of a coach is to win. With whatever personnel is around. As such you can't dismiss the work of Lemaire just because he coaches a boring style. It works. He wins. With a low payroll. It's up to other coaches to figure out systems better than his. Ditto for Hitchcock or any other defense-first style coach.

But judging by his recent success and the fact that his team is no more expensive than the aforementioned Wild I would say that Darryl Sutter is the best coach in the NHL right now.

The worst? His brother Brian is doing a fine job embarrassing Chicago. Granato seems a touch overwhelmed in Colorado. Until they stepped down last season both Glen Sather and Doug Maclean were pretty awful behind the bench. My pick? Dave Tippett in Dallas. Struggled with line combinations all season long, even when the team was healthy, and was outcoached by Granato in round 1. 'Nuff said.

Its close between Tippett and Granato. But, Granato had a much better team to work with, so I'll go with him, b/c they both made it roughly as far. 2nd round vs 1st round.

Lamire didn't win too much this year did he? last year was a fluke, and alot of his teams were talent laden (not all).

Job of a coach is to win, sure, but there is more to it than that. ie some teams have gone with free-wheeling coaches to put butts in the seats (ie: granato)

I guess I'm just biased against the trap and poor clutch and grab "bring the game down to our level" coaching, which is what Lamire is the epitomy of. He will never get my vote, except for in a poll with the title: "which coach has done the most to ruin NHL hockey?"

Malefic74 06-04-2004 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
Job of a coach is to win, sure, but there is more to it than that. ie some teams have gone with free-wheeling coaches to put butts in the seats (ie: granato)

I guess I'm just biased against the trap and poor clutch and grab "bring the game down to our level" coaching, which is what Lamire is the epitomy of. He will never get my vote, except for in a poll with the title: "which coach has done the most to ruin NHL hockey?"

I agree that what Lemaire did in New Jersey was bad for hockey. With the offensive talent he had on those teams he could have played more open and possibly still won. Forcing teams full of scorers and snipers to skate backwards through the neutral zone all night does indeed ruin hockey.

But when you have an expansion team filled with a bunch of guys no one wanted it's a little different. You have to play defense first. There is no way you can run and gun with the big boys. That has been true since 1967. You think every team in the 80's wanted to go toe-to-toe with the Oilers in a shootout? Hell no. There were teams back then that played defense first too. And they weren't all coached by Jacques Lemaire.

THe GMs of expansion franchises have a choice, they can play a fairly entertaining style and get drubbed for 3 or 4 years (see Blue Jackets, Columbus), or they can try and be competitive right away, by playing to keep it close and hope for some bounces (see Wild, Minnesota). Risebrough wanted to be competitive. He knew what he was getting in Lemaire.

Give the Wild some credit, yes, they didn't win as much this year, missing their one gunner and not getting as many bounces accounts for a lot of that. When you're playing the thin margin they are that will happen. Contrast that to Anaheim who actually changed their style and opened up just a little. Now that was a horror show.

It's real easy to point to one guy and say "He ruined hockey." But the fact is the other 29 coaches did as much or more. No one held a gun to their heads after the Devils won and said "copy that style." They were lazy. It's hard work to come up with a style that works and to get the 16 guys on your team to buy what you're selling. It's a lot easier to say "See? It worked for them. Let's do the same thing they did." And who can blame them? They get Zero support from management and winning IS the bottom line. The league lets the trap work, it produces wins and it's job security for guys who don't have much from the day they're hired.

When it comes to the trap, there is PLENTY of blame to go around. Lemaire deserves a lot, sure. But most certainly not all of it.

Fan-of-#9 06-04-2004 01:35 PM

Anyone who says Brian Sutter is the worst coach in the league is way off base. Have you seen the team he's got in Chicago right now??

He had at least 10 players play their first NHL game this season, and I think 13 players whom are considered rookies. He had the worst goaltending in the entire NHL. The Hawks had 6 different goalies play at least 1 game this year, with Leighton and Anderson playing almost 70% of the games. Their defense is arguably worse than their goaltending, their best D-man is Steve Poapst for crying out loud. Sutter is the guy that turned the Hawks around a couple of years back, after they missed the playoff for many years. Daze played all of 19 games this year and Zhamnov was traded too. Give the guy a break, he's a pretty good coach. Blame the worst owner in the league before you blame the coach of his team.

Drake1588 06-04-2004 01:40 PM

Well, he's back as an assistant after starting out the year as a head coach, so here's a hearty 'good riddance' going out to Bruce Cassidy. Grinding a $50 million team into-- not just a mediocre team, not just a non-playoff team, but a team ranked #29 or #30 for much of the season-- he deserves some dubious props for his tenure in DC.

Lionel Hutz 06-04-2004 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malefic74
When it comes to the trap, there is PLENTY of blame to go around. Lemaire deserves a lot, sure. But most certainly not all of it.

I agree with most of that, just one small point, I never personally pointed my finger at Lemire and said he ruined hockey, I said he "did the most" to ruin hockey- meaning that his contribution to trap hockey is greater than anoyone else's, not everyone else's. There are 1000 factors that hve led to these times where we can't see a 50 goal scorer, and Lemire is ONE of them.

If you are saying I said he ruined hockey, you're putting words in my mouth.

Malefic74 06-04-2004 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
I agree with most of that, just one small point, I never personally pointed my finger at Lemire and said he ruined hockey, I said he "did the most" to ruin hockey- meaning that his contribution to trap hockey is greater than anoyone else's, not everyone else's. There are 1000 factors that hve led to these times where we can't see a 50 goal scorer, and Lemire is ONE of them.

If you are saying I said he ruined hockey, you're putting words in my mouth.

You're right. My apologies to you.

fullmetalninja 06-04-2004 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
Anyone who says Brian Sutter is the worst coach in the league is way off base. Have you seen the team he's got in Chicago right now??

He had at least 10 players play their first NHL game this season, and I think 13 players whom are considered rookies. He had the worst goaltending in the entire NHL. The Hawks had 6 different goalies play at least 1 game this year, with Leighton and Anderson playing almost 70% of the games. Their defense is arguably worse than their goaltending, their best D-man is Steve Poapst for crying out loud. Sutter is the guy that turned the Hawks around a couple of years back, after they missed the playoff for many years. Daze played all of 19 games this year and Zhamnov was traded too. Give the guy a break, he's a pretty good coach. Blame the worst owner in the league before you blame the coach of his team.

As someone who saw every Blackhawk game the last season(and 90% + the two season's before) Brian Sutter is not a good coach.

He does one thing: lights a fire under players butts. And that's all he does. HIs answer to everything is: work harder. No strategy... nothing else.

He claimed that "all systems are basically the same". The hawks therefore, play no system. Not in the defensive zone, not in the neutral zone, not in the offensive zone. Steve McCarthy only got to play because of an injury to Deron Quint! Alexander Karpotsev was named an Alternate captain(over mark bell!).

The blackhawks the last three years have used the same breakout play- and its horrible. We never get speed in the neutral zone.

I don't know if Sutter is the worst coach in the league... how do you judge something like that? But He has been bad in chicago.

people act as if the playoff team of a few seasons ago was some coaching miracle. But it wasn't. That team had two solid lines:

Calder/Zhamnov/Amonte(still could play then)
Daze/Nylander/Sullivan

And for bottom 6 forwards that team had:

Steve Thomas, Tom Fitzgerald, Tyler Arnason, Mark Bell, Bob Probert, Aaron Downey, Ryan Vandenbussche, and Igor Korolev.

The D:

Klemm/Housely(who had a great season)
Karpotsev/Mironov(and bobo had a "comeback year")
Odelein/Poapst


was that a great team... no. but it certainly was a playoff calibre team. It wasn't some great coaching job, but a *decent* motivation job(getting players like Mironov, Karpotsev, to play like they cared).

Sutter in year 2, did all kinds of great work:

Put Nylander down to the *4th line*, too soft.
Forced Bob Probert to retire(and never let him play in a home game so the fans could give him a proper send off).
After trading Nylander, he moved *ARNASON* down to the 4th line(send him a message you know).

If you want a laundry list, most blackhawk fans could provide it.

-fullmetalninja

Fan-of-#9 06-04-2004 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullmetalninja
As someone who saw every Blackhawk game the last season(and 90% + the two season's before) Brian Sutter is not a good coach.

He does one thing: lights a fire under players butts. And that's all he does. HIs answer to everything is: work harder. No strategy... nothing else.

He claimed that "all systems are basically the same". The hawks therefore, play no system. Not in the defensive zone, not in the neutral zone, not in the offensive zone. Steve McCarthy only got to play because of an injury to Deron Quint! Alexander Karpotsev was named an Alternate captain(over mark bell!).

The blackhawks the last three years have used the same breakout play- and its horrible. We never get speed in the neutral zone.

I don't know if Sutter is the worst coach in the league... how do you judge something like that? But He has been bad in chicago.

people act as if the playoff team of a few seasons ago was some coaching miracle. But it wasn't. That team had two solid lines:

Calder/Zhamnov/Amonte(still could play then)
Daze/Nylander/Sullivan

And for bottom 6 forwards that team had:

Steve Thomas, Tom Fitzgerald, Tyler Arnason, Mark Bell, Bob Probert, Aaron Downey, Ryan Vandenbussche, and Igor Korolev.

The D:

Klemm/Housely(who had a great season)
Karpotsev/Mironov(and bobo had a "comeback year")
Odelein/Poapst


was that a great team... no. but it certainly was a playoff calibre team. It wasn't some great coaching job, but a *decent* motivation job(getting players like Mironov, Karpotsev, to play like they cared).

Sutter in year 2, did all kinds of great work:

Put Nylander down to the *4th line*, too soft.
Forced Bob Probert to retire(and never let him play in a home game so the fans could give him a proper send off).
After trading Nylander, he moved *ARNASON* down to the 4th line(send him a message you know).

If you want a laundry list, most blackhawk fans could provide it.

-fullmetalninja

The point I was trying to make was that even if the best coach in the league coached the Hawks this past season, they wouldn't have done much better.

abe jr 06-09-2004 05:55 PM

best/worst coach
 
Best- Crawford

Worst- Granato

WhoozYerrDaddy 06-09-2004 07:36 PM

Tortorella's philosophy regarding the trap....

..I am not gonna teach you guys the trap cuz I don't want you guys to know how to play it.

The guy ROCKS!!!


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:06 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.