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-   -   Speculation: Preseason Bill Guerin thread.. (Post #405 Guerin Released) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=821993)

Kaktus* 09-24-2010 08:22 AM

Preseason Bill Guerin thread.. (Post #405 Guerin Released)
 
I think we need to dedicate one thread to Bill Guerin..

Two games into preseason huge amount of turnovers, below average skating, weak along the boards, one lucky goal and one SO goal. So far he's been very disappointing imo. I am willing to see more and maybe he will get better but what are the chances of that? Lets keep this thread going to the next 6 games? Is it really a big deal if we sign him 500K league minimum? Who’s spot do you think he will take if Holmgren decides to give him contract?

Thoughts?



what can you do?

DUHockey9 09-24-2010 08:25 AM

My thoughts...

I was so appalled by his game last night, and the various tweets that make it seem as if Guerin already has a spot on this team. I'm really, really scared. I didn't want him on this team because I didn't think he had anything left. Now, I'm even more comfortable with my initial thought.

Talbetts 09-24-2010 08:28 AM

LAZY! People call Carter Lazy.....this guy is on another level. I dont know if it's just that he is too old, but he floats every single shift that he is out there.

If he makes the team, I hope it is more to mentor young guys and he gets UNDER 12 minutes a night. I'd rather Forsberg on one leg, for sure.

OriginJM 09-24-2010 08:31 AM

I'd rather sign Recchi to a 15 year contract than Guerin to a 15 minute contract.

John Flyers Fan 09-24-2010 08:33 AM

He's done absolutely nothing through two games to merit a spot on this roster, but from all accounts his spot is already pretty much a done deal.

TOCxNJ 09-24-2010 08:35 AM

Completely agree. Looks very washed up out there.

Not the type of play to be expected when one is trying to make a team. In fact, you typically play above expectation when trying to make a team and then dwindle off a bit. If this is his 110%, he should not be anywhere close to this team.

DrinkFightFlyers 09-24-2010 08:35 AM

I didn't see anything after the first period last night. He didn't look too bad at that point. Was it really that bad? I didn't think he looked bad in the first game either. He isn't looking great but not bad by any means (from what I've seen).

TOCxNJ 09-24-2010 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers (Post 27920639)
I didn't see anything after the first period last night. He didn't look too bad at that point. Was it really that bad? I didn't think he looked bad in the first game either. He isn't looking great but not bad by any means (from what I've seen).

Lots of lazy turnovers....like just "giving" the puck away. He would fit right in the AHL. A shame really because I thought maybe he'd be a good fit on this team.

KimiFerrari 09-24-2010 08:41 AM

I wouldn't mind giving Guerin a contract if we had a whole we needed to plug, but we are at the max roster, so we would be forced to move someone.

I do not think he is an enough of an improvement to warrant trading/waiving someone younger with more of an upside.

i am dave 09-24-2010 08:41 AM

It seems like we get one of these roster players every year coming out of camp. Pyorala, Radovan Somik, Brian Savage, Jon Sim, Jiri Dopita. They make the club by somehow impressing management and the coaching staff. Dopita was the "omg best player evarrrrr." Pyorala showed promise, Sim had had a good year with the Phantoms, Somik looked like... I have no idea. I'm guessing Guerin is bringing good things to the locker room. Who knows?

What can you do?

CharlieGirl 09-24-2010 08:46 AM

The worst part is that he'll take a roster spot from another young player who has the potential to improve.

I have to wonder where exactly they want him to play....

He doesn't belong on a shutdown line with Lappy and Betts.

Richards
Carter
Briere
Giroux
JVR
Leino
Hartnell

That's 7 (off the top of my head) top 6 players, and I'm likely missing a couple.

RJ8812 09-24-2010 08:46 AM

Pass

agrudez* 09-24-2010 08:49 AM

If we can rotate Guerin with Shelley and Powe (Guerin on 3rd line, Powe on 4th when Shelley is scratched and Powe on 3rd, Shelley on 4th when Guerin is scratched) then I have no problem "trading Carcillo's cap hit for a league minimum contract of Guerin.

That way we can save up as much cap space as possible for the hopes of getting a goalie at the trade deadling. :sarcasm:

Jester 09-24-2010 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieGirl (Post 27920732)
The worst part is that he'll take a roster spot from another young player who has the potential to improve.

I have to wonder where exactly they want him to play....

He doesn't belong on a shutdown line with Lappy and Betts.

Richards
Carter
Briere
Giroux
JVR
Leino
Hartnell

That's 7 (off the top of my head) top 6 players, and I'm likely missing a couple.

They want him to be able to help out a scoring line, which neither Carcillo or Powe (though, Shelley might be able to) are really all that great for. Whether he can do that needs to be decided in camp... if he can't, he can't.

However, it won't be the end of the world if we give a cheap 1-year deal to him. We have cap space to give on D (you really can't carry 8 D on the cap... and it would be a huge disservice to Bartulis to have him as an 8 just rotting in the press box), but it won't be enough to address the real problem (goal) this season, so for this year the lost cap space won't be a big deal.

We're absolutely stacked with depth everywhere else... so making a "big" trade that carries a cap gain with it shouldn't be something this team is going to be considering down the line unless someone is seriously hurt, at which point LTIR would be the solution to the cap problems anyway.

Right now we have 877K in cap space, and that's with both Bartulis (600K and non-waiver exempts as of now) and Walker (1.3M) on the roster. We also have extra forwards who would be gone if Guerin were signed.

Valhoun* 09-24-2010 09:11 AM

If Guerin signs and that means Carcillo is gone then I will flip the **** out. Not because Carcillo is overly amazing or anything but why dump a young, effective player for a one year train wreck?

ctay 09-24-2010 09:12 AM

There's no way Guerin gets a contract with the Flyers. He's here because Ville Leino is injured and they needed a right winger. As soon as things get going, Guerin is out.

chimrichalds18 09-24-2010 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieGirl (Post 27920732)
The worst part is that he'll take a roster spot from another young player who has the potential to improve.

I have to wonder where exactly they want him to play....

He doesn't belong on a shutdown line with Lappy and Betts.

Richards
Carter
Briere
Giroux
JVR
Leino
Hartnell

That's 7 (off the top of my head) top 6 players, and I'm likely missing a couple.

Zherdev's up there too. Guerin would be the 9th 'scoring' forward. I'm honestly getting a little worried about our forwards' defensive ability. Not a lot there (top 9, at least), and Guerin does absolutely nothing to help it.

GKJ 09-24-2010 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctay (Post 27920974)
There's no way Guerin gets a contract with the Flyers. He's here because Ville Leino is injured and they needed a right winger. As soon as things get going, Guerin is out.

They need Guerin to win pre-season games? That's not really how it works.

infidelappel* 09-24-2010 09:29 AM

Before camp, I was a fan of the idea to bring him in on a tryout basis. I thought he could still play, provide great leadership, and would be a solid complement to the Kids line of JVR and Giroux.

After seeing these two games, though, I don't want him. I want to see more of him through the rest of camp to see if he maybe just doesn't have his legs yet, but at this point it's just looking like he's got a bad case of the Old.

If he doesn't improve significantly (incredibly unlikely), cut the old boy loose.

Valhoun* 09-24-2010 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 (Post 27921161)
They need Guerin to win pre-season games? That's not really how it works.

Homer is a moron, though. He'll sign Guerin and pay for it with Powe being on LTIR and then when Powe gets back there will be a cluster**** with the salary cap.

Cartsiephan* 09-24-2010 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 27920800)
They want him to be able to help out a scoring line, which neither Carcillo or Powe (though, Shelley might be able to) are really all that great for. Whether he can do that needs to be decided in camp... if he can't, he can't.

However, it won't be the end of the world if we give a cheap 1-year deal to him. We have cap space to give on D (you really can't carry 8 D on the cap... and it would be a huge disservice to Bartulis to have him as an 8 just rotting in the press box), but it won't be enough to address the real problem (goal) this season, so for this year the lost cap space won't be a big deal.

We're absolutely stacked with depth everywhere else... so making a "big" trade that carries a cap gain with it shouldn't be something this team is going to be considering down the line unless someone is seriously hurt, at which point LTIR would be the solution to the cap problems anyway.

Right now we have 877K in cap space, and that's with both Bartulis (600K and non-waiver exempts as of now) and Walker (1.3M) on the roster. We also have extra forwards who would be gone if Guerin were signed.

Thank you for a voice of reason. Guerin was brought in to fill a top 9 spot on the roster BECAUSE Laviolette most likely feels that Carcillo cannot keep a top 9 spot for a full season. Guerin is a security that will cost little but give the Flyers a fwd who can give them @35pts and give 13-15mins of TOI. He can play several roles on this team but most likely I could see him as a mentor to JvR and Giroux. This is a perseason game folks, he has over 1,000 NHL career games. Losing Gagne and replacing him with Zherdev is a risky move, bringing in another scorer who can contribute like Guerin is an insurance policy.

As far as where he fits it is pretty straight forward I think:
Zherdev-Richards-Carter
Leino-Briere-Leino
JvR-Giroux-Guerin
Carcillo-Shelley-Powe-Betts-Laperriere



Most likely it will be Bartulis or Walker who is waived, Walker would be the smarter move of the two.

Garbage Goal 09-24-2010 09:37 AM

In the last Guerin topic that was about him getting a tryout contract and taking Zherdev's number, I kept repeating that I hated him getting a tryout because nothing good could come of it.

Still stand by that and it just looks like Bill Guerin is proving what I said right.

infidelappel* 09-24-2010 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cartsiephan (Post 27921194)
Thank you for a voice of reason. Guerin was brought in to fill a top 9 spot on the roster BECAUSE Laviolette most likely feels that Carcillo cannot keep a top 9 spot for a full season. Guerin is a security that will cost little but give the Flyers a fwd who can give them @35pts and give 13-15mins of TOI. He can play several roles on this team but most likely I could see him as a mentor to JvR and Giroux. This is a perseason game folks, he has over 1,000 NHL career games. Losing Gagne and replacing him with Zherdev is a risky move, bringing in another scorer who can contribute like Guerin is an insurance policy.

As far as where he fits it is pretty straight forward I think:
Zherdev-Richards-Carter
Leino-Briere-Leino
JvR-Giroux-Guerin
Carcillo-Shelley-Powe-Betts-Laperriere



Most likely it will be Bartulis or Walker who is waived, Walker would be the smarter move of the two.

You're confusing the concept of Bill Guerin with the reality.

I think most people agree that Bill Guerin SHOULD be the perfect complement to JVR and Giroux. Poise, veteran savvy, leadership, size, a scoring touch, and (historically speaking) decent defensive responsibility. He should be a perfect #9 scorer that this team is otherwise lacking.

But he looks way too slow out there. I don't think he's still the Bill Guerin that we want him to be...and if he's not, then we have to accept that if the reality of Bill Guerin won't live up to the concept, then we gotta let him go.

Cartsiephan* 09-24-2010 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valhoun (Post 27921193)
Homer is a moron, though. He'll sign Guerin and pay for it with Powe being on LTIR and then when Powe gets back there will be a cluster**** with the salary cap.

You waive Walker, done and done.

dbr2 09-24-2010 09:39 AM

If we wanted to try someone out we should of tried someone else out. That is how I feel.

The few times we all almost agree on a topic.


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