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-   -   News Article: THN.com Blog: The upside to Rangers GM Glen Sather (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=824391)

Blazephr 09-30-2010 01:10 PM

THN.com Blog: The upside to Rangers GM Glen Sather
 
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...n-Sather.html?

Matteau Matteau 09-30-2010 01:21 PM

Quote:

You don’t become a Hall of Famer for nothing and you don’t draft the likes of Kevin Lowe, Mark Messier, Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey, Jari Kurri, Grant Fuhr, Esa Tikkanen, Martin Rucinsky, Kirk Maltby, Miro Satan, Jason Arnott, Ryan Smyth, Henrik Lundqvist, Marc Staal and others by being a complete dolt.
I'm inclined to agree.

So what happens to that sharp hockey mind when he makes terrible signings?

NYR Sting 09-30-2010 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matteau Matteau (Post 28033292)
I'm inclined to agree.

So what happens to that sharp hockey mind when he makes terrible signings?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005632.html

Check out 1984-2000.

Jackson Ranger 09-30-2010 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting36e (Post 28033380)

That 1990 draft was good. :sarcasm: Sather has lived pretty well off two great draft classes from 30 years ago and an owner that bought the greatest hockey player from another organization.

BrandNewDream 09-30-2010 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger (Post 28033626)
That 1990 draft was good. :sarcasm: Sather has lived pretty well off two great draft classes from 30 years ago and an owner that bought the greatest hockey player from another organization.

In EVERY draft they got at least one player who played in at least 150 NHL games, except for 1990 and 1986. In many cases, they had multiple players out of that same draft. A number of guys who played 500+ NHL games.

Don't be ridiculous, that's a very strong draft record.

Scooter17 09-30-2010 01:57 PM

Quote:

This summer Sather traded over-the-hill goon Donald Brashear to Atlanta for serviceable center Todd White, then got Blueshirts executive chairman James Dolan to let him bury Wade Redden’s $6.5 million in the minors. How does Sather do it? How does he get other GMs to trade for his waste and how is he allowed to spend money as he does? Is Dolan a dupe? Are other GMs around the league dumb? I don’t think so.
Yes, Dolan IS a dope.

Quote:

Sather makes his own bed when it comes to bad contracts and he may be past his best-before date as a GM, but he still pulls a rabbit out of his hat about once every summer; just enough to make this writer, at least, raise an eyebrow and say “How’d he manage to do that!?”
Yeah but that doesn't make his horrible UFA signings excusable.

Quote:

So even though he has to deal with Drury and Michal Rozsival’s contracts, maybe it’s time to give Ole Slats a break. Sure he’s not the best GM in the league anymore, but is he the worst? Don’t think so.
No its not time to give him a break. He might be the worst GM in the league with UFA signings. I'm not giving Sather a break until the Drury and Redden contracts are completely gone AND we see what he does with the new cap space AND the team does something significantly more than finish 6-8.

I don't understand how this writer can defend Sather. He obviously is not a Rangers fan because he doesn't understand the frustration Sather has put everyone through.

Panfork 09-30-2010 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger (Post 28033626)
That 1990 draft was good. :sarcasm: Sather has lived pretty well off two great draft classes from 30 years ago and an owner that bought the greatest hockey player from another organization.

:laugh: How do you not get 1 NHL game out of an entire draft year?

Jackson Ranger 09-30-2010 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandNewDream (Post 28033681)
In EVERY draft they got at least one player who played in at least 150 NHL games, except for 1990 and 1986. In many cases, they had multiple players out of that same draft. A number of guys who played 500+ NHL games.

Don't be ridiculous, that's a very strong draft record.

You mean those 500+ guys like Laraque, Poti, Chimera, Devereaux and Horcoff? Those are household names that you can build a team around. :shakehead

What about his top ten picks of Kelly (#6), Devereaux (#6) and Bonsignore (#4). Who's being ridiculous here. Heck the Rangers at least drafted Weight and Zubov in class of 1990 compared to Sather's goose egg.

Kel Varnsen 09-30-2010 02:04 PM

This guy could have made a much stronger argument had he mentioned our recent string of playoff appearances post-lockout, the Jagr trade, and the recent great drafting.

BrandNewDream 09-30-2010 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger (Post 28033919)
You mean those 500+ guys like Laraque, Poti, Chimera, Devereaux and Horcoff? Those are household names that you can build a team around. :shakehead

What about his top ten picks of Kelly (#6), Devereaux (#6) and Bonsignore (#4). Who's being ridiculous here. Heck the Rangers at least drafted Weight and Zubov in class of 1990 compared to Sather's goose egg.

Better than nothing. You're not going to draft impact players every time out. To draft a guy and have him play 100's of games for your franchise is a great result.

I can't believe you think other wise. And there are weak drafts, and straight up bust picks. Scott Scissons, Daniel Tkaczuk, Daigle, etc. etc. It happens.

Jackson Ranger 09-30-2010 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandNewDream (Post 28034232)
Better than nothing. You're not going to draft impact players every time out. To draft a guy and have him play 100's of games for your franchise is a great result.

I can't believe you think other wise. And there are weak drafts, and straight up bust picks. Scott Scissons, Daniel Tkaczuk, Daigle, etc. etc. It happens.

I agree, there are weak drafts and bust picks, I am a Ranger fan after all. ;) However, you said he has a strong draft record. Does that mean that Neil Smith had a strong draft record because of +500 game players like Malhotra, Nemchinov, York, Marchant, Zamuner, Cummins and Miller?

My main point that I touched on originally is he benefitted from an outstanding haul in about a three to four year time period that netted Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Kurri and Fuhr. After that, his draft record is mediocre at best.

RangerBoy 09-30-2010 02:30 PM

Group III free agency is crazy. Most of the contracts signed end up being bad deals. Too much money. Too much term. Just look at Redden,Nylander and Souray. Redden and Nylander are already in the AHL. Souray is on waivers again with his future up in the air.

Everyone points to Lou as being the smartest man in the sport and he has had free agent disaster after another. Ken Campbell of THN wrote Lou has done the poorest/worst job with cap management with the current CBA. 35 plus contracts. Getting caught circumventing the CBA.

NHL will push for non-guaranteed contracts in next CBA

Quote:

Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs told me yesterday he's "love to" to see NFL-like salary cap in the NHL w/less guaranteed $$ in contracts.
https://twitter.com/MurphysLaw74/status/25986376577

Quote:

Jacobs believes w/less guaranteed $$ in contracts and escrow will be major sticking points in next CBA negotiations.
https://twitter.com/MurphysLaw74/status/25987972659

Quote:

Many not surprised by my news on Jacobs wanting to get rid of guaranteed money. I guess they're not grasping that owners r hell bent on this
https://twitter.com/MurphysLaw74/status/25990693658

BrandNewDream 09-30-2010 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerBoy (Post 28034367)
Group III free agency is crazy. Most of the contracts signed end up being bad deals. Too much money. Too much term. Just look at Redden,Nylander and Souray. Redden and Nylander are already in the AHL. Souray is on waivers again with his future up in the air.

Everyone points to Lou as being the smartest man in the sport and he has had free agent disaster after another. Ken Campbell of THN wrote Lou has done the poorest/worst job with cap management with the current CBA. 35 plus contracts. Getting caught circumventing the CBA.

NHL will push for non-guaranteed contracts in next CBA



https://twitter.com/MurphysLaw74/status/25986376577



https://twitter.com/MurphysLaw74/status/25987972659



https://twitter.com/MurphysLaw74/status/25990693658

We've already seen it considerably with the market correction on 2nd contracts. Look at the contracts of a few years ago signed by guys like Olesz in FLA. Heck, Eric Johnson signed for $2.6 million.

hpNYR 09-30-2010 02:40 PM

Give me other GM's for comparison. Let's be real; Theres is nothing extraordinary or outstanding with Sathers drafting record considering his long tenure.

McRanger 09-30-2010 02:49 PM

Sather has nothing to do with drafting. He hasn't probably since the Carter administration. If he is terrible at something it is hiring his cronies and/or being unable to recognize a change need to be made. Couple that with his pompous arrogance and you have a dangerous combination.

It doesn't help that when Edmonton when through their mid 90's "rebuild" they hit the worst draft span in history to have top picks. '94-'96 was simply brutal.

NYR Sting 09-30-2010 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandNewDream (Post 28033681)
In EVERY draft they got at least one player who played in at least 150 NHL games, except for 1990 and 1986. In many cases, they had multiple players out of that same draft. A number of guys who played 500+ NHL games.

Don't be ridiculous, that's a very strong draft record.

NHL regulars (300 games or more) that the Oilers drafted from 1984 until he left the tea.

1984 - Todd Ewen
1985 - Kelly Buchberger
1986 - No one
1987 - Brad Werenka, Geoff Smith, Shaun Van Allen
1988 - Shjon Podein
1989 - Josef Beranek, Anatoli Semenov
1990 - No one
1991 - Tyler Wright, Martin Rucinsky
1992 - Kirk Maltby

So in this nine year span, the best player he drafted was Martin Rucinsky. Over the course of nine years, the best player he drafted was a second line winger.

1993 - Jason Arnott, David Vyborny, Miro Satan. Strong draft.
1994 - Ryan Smyth
1995 - Georges Laraque
1996 - Boyd Devereaux, Tom Poti, Fernando Pisani
1997 - Shawn Horcoff
1998 - Jason Chimera
1999 - Mike Comrie

This isn't even taking into account some of those top 10 picks that he botched like Bonsignore or Steve Kelly.

Basically, in 16 consecutive drafts, he developed one or two first line players (Arnott, Smyth). That is awful, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandNewDream (Post 28034232)
Better than nothing. You're not going to draft impact players every time out. To draft a guy and have him play 100's of games for your franchise is a great result.

I can't believe you think other wise. And there are weak drafts, and straight up bust picks. Scott Scissons, Daniel Tkaczuk, Daigle, etc. etc. It happens.

If a guy is a fourth liner and plays 300 games for your team, is that really so great? If he was a low round pick, sure. But you have to maximize your assets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by genericnyrusername (Post 28033928)
This guy could have made a much stronger argument had he mentioned our recent string of playoff appearances post-lockout, the Jagr trade, and the recent great drafting.

He deserves no credit for the Jagr trade considering the Rangers were the ONLY team capable of making the deal, not to mention a team Jagr wanted to play for. You could also write an entire essay on how the Jagr trade (and the string of pointless playoff appearances that are a direct result of it) are responsible for what will be another era where the Rangers won't be a Cup Contender.

Great drafting usually results in great players, right? I see a lot of good players. I don't see (many) great ones.

TrojanRanger 09-30-2010 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panfork (Post 28033902)
:laugh: How do you not get 1 NHL game out of an entire draft year?

That might be the most impressive thing hes done.

Seriously, not getting a single game at the NHL level out of an entire draft class is damn near impossible to do! :laugh:

z1co80 09-30-2010 03:17 PM

I actually felt quite depressed after reading that

The sooner he goes the better

MSG the place to be* 09-30-2010 03:22 PM

Until Sather starts to act like a normal GM and be a conduit to the fans like Neil Smith used to do, I will go under the premise that he just sits back and smokes his cigar. Then every year before free agency he is awoken and makes impulse purchases.

In contrast, Brian Burke (yes the media pressure is much greater in Toronto) is basically broadcasting to the fans 24/7. You know he's on top of his **** (even though I hate the job hes done) because he exhibits it on a daily basis. With Sather the occasional quote leaked to the media like "the most deserving players, regardless of contract will play" does not prove to me that he is on top of stuff.

n8 09-30-2010 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger (Post 28033626)
That 1990 draft was good. :sarcasm: Sather has lived pretty well off two great draft classes from 30 years ago and an owner that bought the greatest hockey player from another organization.

wow, NHL players were falling out of trees that draft year. How did you strike out so bad?

Radek27 09-30-2010 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSG the place to be (Post 28035201)
Until Sather starts to act like a normal GM and be a conduit to the fans like Neil Smith used to do, I will go under the premise that he just sits back and smokes his cigar. Then every year before free agency he is awoken and makes impulse purchases.

In contrast, Brian Burke (yes the media pressure is much greater in Toronto) is basically broadcasting to the fans 24/7. You know he's on top of his **** (even though I hate the job hes done) because he exhibits it on a daily basis. With Sather the occasional quote leaked to the media like "the most deserving players, regardless of contract will play" does not prove to me that he is on top of stuff.

I miss Wheel and Deal Neal. He always kept the fans in the loop. I also miss JD's aweseome trade rumors during broadcasts when his phone would ring and Sam would have to take over while he got the scoop.

But really I don't think it takes a lot to realize Sather has been a big flop in a decade here. He talked the talk but fell short when it was time to put his money where his mouth was. Fact is Smith won a cup here and got to the ECF where Slats hasn't even come close in ten years.

Jackson Ranger 09-30-2010 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n8 (Post 28035451)
wow, NHL players were falling out of trees that draft year. How did you strike out so bad?

Not sure where you're going with the comment but Tkachuk and Brodeur say hi.

Slick Rick 61 09-30-2010 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger (Post 28035667)
Not sure where you're going with the comment but Tkachuk and Brodeur say hi.

I would think he's being sarcastic and actually bashing Sather, because there are plenty of players in this draft who had very good NHL careers. Also many, while not impact players, had very respectable careers.

Panfork 09-30-2010 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerBoy (Post 28034367)
Group III free agency is crazy. Most of the contracts signed end up being bad deals. Too much money. Too much term. Just look at Redden,Nylander and Souray. Redden and Nylander are already in the AHL. Souray is on waivers again with his future up in the air.

Everyone points to Lou as being the smartest man in the sport and he has had free agent disaster after another. Ken Campbell of THN wrote Lou has done the poorest/worst job with cap management with the current CBA. 35 plus contracts. Getting caught circumventing the CBA.

NHL will push for non-guaranteed contracts in next CBA

Could you explain to me exactly what that means to the NHL? I don't watch any other sport but hockey so I'm not exactly knowledged on the whole non-guaranteed contracts idea.

stcatcs12 09-30-2010 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangersfan30 (Post 28035109)
I actually felt quite depressed after reading that

The sooner he goes the better

Indeed, to me the whole point of the article is to say "well he sure is bad, but there probably are worse!"


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