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-   -   Line Combos: Time to change up the line combos? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=830974)

BillyShoe1721 10-17-2010 11:39 AM

Time to change up the line combos?
 
I might start to tweak them if I was Laviolette. I would leave the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line intact, but I would change the other ones. I would try:

JVR-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Carcillo-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Betts-Nodl

Thoughts?

Start Leighton* 10-17-2010 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 (Post 28366054)
I might start to tweak them if I was Laviolette. I would leave the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line intact, but I would change the other ones. I would try:

JVR-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Carcillo-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Betts-Nodl

Thoughts?

Current lines are.

Carcillo/Nodl-Richards-Carter
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux-Zherdev
Powe-Betts-Shelley

I think the easiest thing to do would just be switch Carter and Giroux. JVR-Carter-Zherdev was a line in camp why not try it out Richards and Giroux have great chemistry on the PK see if it translates to 5 on 5. But mainly Carter has to play center.

Carcillo/Nodl-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Carter-Zherdev
Powe-Betts-Shelley

Terence Peterman 10-17-2010 12:11 PM

Yes, switch this **** up. I wanna see:

Leino-Briere-Hartnell
JVR-Carter-Zherdev
Crap-Richards-Giroux (ugh)
Powe-Betts-Carcillo

usahockey22flyers 10-17-2010 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 (Post 28366054)
I might start to tweak them if I was Laviolette. I would leave the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line intact, but I would change the other ones. I would try:

JVR-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Carcillo-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Betts-Nodl

Thoughts?

I like these lines, it just absoloutley kills me to see Carcillo in the top 9.

CS 10-17-2010 12:20 PM

vanRiemsdyk - Richards - Giroux
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
Maroon/Nodl - Carter - Zherdev
Powe - Betts - Carcillo

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - O'Donnell
Bartulis

Bobrovsky
Boucher

I'm happy all of you are so entranced/entertained by Roo <--> Z chemistry, but it's not helpful dancing around if neither scores. Put Giroux on Richie's wing, and give them JVR. Give Carter his own line with one deadweight player who will never see the puck unless he's camped out in front of the net where he should be or winning pucks along the boards (Nodl/Maroon), and Zherdev, who can pass as well as shoot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Blaine (Post 28366449)
Yes, switch this **** up. I wanna see:

Leino-Briere-Hartnell
JVR-Carter-Zherdev
Crap-Richards-Giroux (ugh)
Powe-Betts-Carcillo

Basically that, but don't waste JVR on Carter's line.

Jester 10-17-2010 12:28 PM

I don't know... I'm kind of enjoying watching the constant shuffle at wing with Carter and Richards. Fun that our "top line" is a completely inconsistent setup every game because they don't have a real wing to run that line with.

Mgkibbles 10-17-2010 01:16 PM

I don't feel as though Giroux and Zherdev have the same chemistry they showed during the pre-season, so I think

Nodl-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux-Carter

Would be better right now, that change wouldn't overhaul the offense, but it might give the team some more flow. And stop putting Giroux at wing people, hes a center.

Jester 10-17-2010 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgkibbles (Post 28367444)
I don't feel as though Giroux and Zherdev have the same chemistry they showed during the pre-season, so I think

Nodl-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux-Carter

Would be better right now, that change wouldn't overhaul the offense, but it might give the team some more flow. And stop putting Giroux at wing people, hes a center.

Is that why he's always played wing before he showed up in Philly? It's VERY suspicious that all those coaches didn't play him at center all those years... since normally you see them just stick their best guy at center, if "he's a center."

Look at your lines. The 2nd best center on this team is playing 3rd line wing... do you really think that makes sense?

Mgkibbles 10-17-2010 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 28367497)
Is that why he's always played wing before he showed up in Philly? It's VERY suspicious that all those coaches didn't play him at center all those years... since normally you see them just stick their best guy at center, if "he's a center."

Look at your lines. The 2nd best center on this team is playing 3rd line wing... do you really think that makes sense?

Where has Giroux excelled at with the Flyers? At center, not at wing, so I really don't care where other coaches played him. Also this team doesn't have a number one, two and three line - The Flyers have three interchangeable number one lines, Carter will still get his typical even strength minutes, along with his time on the powerplay, and the occasional penalty kill, so I don't buy that argument.

BWAVgal 10-17-2010 01:44 PM

Isn't he the same coach that is switching the lines up in ever game so far.

CTU2fan 10-17-2010 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 28366586)
vanRiemsdyk - Richards - Giroux
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
Maroon/Nodl - Carter - Zherdev
Powe - Betts - Carcillo

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - O'Donnell
Bartulis

Bobrovsky
Boucher

I'm happy all of you are so entranced/entertained by Roo <--> Z chemistry, but it's not helpful dancing around if neither scores. Put Giroux on Richie's wing, and give them JVR. Give Carter his own line with one deadweight player who will never see the puck unless he's camped out in front of the net where he should be or winning pucks along the boards (Nodl/Maroon), and Zherdev, who can pass as well as shoot.

Boom. I might even go ahead and put Carcillo on the Carter line, but that's basically how I'd set it up. I hate Carter on the wing and I don't particularly like Carter & Richards together.

Mgkibbles 10-17-2010 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWAVgal (Post 28367970)
Isn't he the same coach that is switching the lines up in ever game so far.

There really hasn't been much line switching. Lavi has double shifted JVR a few times, and lines have been jumbled due to a high amount of penalty kills, but the lines really haven't been altered during games.

CS 10-17-2010 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 28367497)
Is that why he's always played wing before he showed up in Philly? It's VERY suspicious that all those coaches didn't play him at center all those years... since normally you see them just stick their best guy at center, if "he's a center."

Look at your lines. The 2nd best center on this team is playing 3rd line wing... do you really think that makes sense?

Giroux was moved to center for healthy chunks of his final year.

The playoffs? Pretty sure most of that was from the middle.

So I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that, but your reasoning behind moving Giroux back to wing (which I already know because I've seen it before) is absolutely correct.

BillDineen 10-17-2010 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgkibbles (Post 28367444)
I don't feel as though Giroux and Zherdev have the same chemistry they showed during the pre-season, so I think

Nodl-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux-Carter

Would be better right now, that change wouldn't overhaul the offense, but it might give the team some more flow. And stop putting Giroux at wing people, hes a center.

Chemistry is missing and something has to give. We have 8 top 6 forwards and 4 4th liners. Further, 4 of the 8 are centers. Whatever is the 1rst line vs the 3rd line is irrelevant at this point.

Whatever the top 3 are, I would prefer rotating whoever is hot instead of Nodl/Carcillo and their 6.5 minutes of waste. It will not help chemistry, but this team at least has to find pairs that work.

Carter works with no one. He did work with Hartnell (and Lupul) at one point.

Briere and Leino work, but need Hartnell or possibly JVR to go to the net hard.

Giroux seems to work with JVR, but as another poster said, might with Richards.

Zherdev has worked with no one since the preseason.

That leads to many possible combinations, but as we all know, not one that fits perfectly.

Hartnell/Carter/Zherdev is similar to the old line with Lupul. That would leave JVR needed on the Briere/Leino line and leave Richards or Giroux to play center and rotate JVR who is playing well now and possibly Zherdev or Hartnell later.

That is my random guess unless Maroon or Testwuide show enough to warrant a shot.

If you are willing to put Carcillo or Nodl up, mind as well just put Betts or Powe who are more reliable defensively and less likely to take stupid penalties. (Lavy does need them to kill penalties though).

Bottom line is I have no Fn idea and it is a random guess. Lavy might start taking some of those soon.

BillDineen 10-17-2010 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 28368121)
Giroux was moved to center for healthy chunks of his final year.

The playoffs? Pretty sure most of that was from the middle.

So I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that, but your reasoning behind moving Giroux back to wing (which I already know because I've seen it before) is absolutely correct.

I believe Paul Byron centered Giroux in those playoffs. I also believe Giroux excelling at center in the nhl means he should stay as one though.

jb** 10-17-2010 02:04 PM

any line with Nodl in the top 9 is also doomed to fail. He isnt a top 9 player. Why not take a shot with the Fabian who was on waivers? he makes 600k. If he didnt pan out you then waive him. Not sure why they dont claim some of these guys making peanuts from waivers to see if they can panout. They know what they have in Nodl and Carcillo and it isnt good enough.

Jester 10-17-2010 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgkibbles (Post 28367756)
Where has Giroux excelled at with the Flyers? At center, not at wing, so I really don't care where other coaches played him. Also this team doesn't have a number one, two and three line - The Flyers have three interchangeable number one lines, Carter will still get his typical even strength minutes, along with his time on the powerplay, and the occasional penalty kill, so I don't buy that argument.

Mike Richards centers our no. 1 line.

Giroux has played well at both wing and center... however, lets look at him supposedly "excelling."

His rookie season he came in during the spring and potted 27 pts in 42 games. Nice totals, and nothing to sneeze at, but also not world beater numbers either.

He followed that up with a full season (where he played both wing and center) and posted 16-31-47 -9... that is not "excelling."

He had a hot playoff run, and good on him, but that doesn't mean it's the wise choice to put him at center for an 82 game campaign... especially when in the process you are putting our best goal scorer on the wing, and, btw, also putting his stick to the outside where you're muting his shot considerably.

If Carter is going to play wing, he should be on the left side, because that lets his stick face the open ice, which takes the most advantage of his shooting ability... putting him on the RW is going to naturally take a big chunk out of Carter's offensive ability because it puts his forehand side against the wall, removing a lot of the angle on his shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 28368121)
Giroux was moved to center for healthy chunks of his final year.

The playoffs? Pretty sure most of that was from the middle.

So I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that, but your reasoning behind moving Giroux back to wing (which I already know because I've seen it before) is absolutely correct.

Giroux was taking draws for his junior team... pretty sure he was still playing wing. They were literally sending him out to take the draw, and then immediately shifting when he got a chance as I recall. However, that's really beside the point, as he was never really a "center" before he showed up here.

CS 10-17-2010 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillDineen (Post 28368194)
I believe Paul Byron centered Giroux in those playoffs. I also believe Giroux excelling at center in the nhl means he should stay as one though.

I know Paul Byron was centering Giroux at times, but I'm pretty sure they swapped a bit or Giroux was centering a different line at times. I watched some of it, though not all. That was one thing that stuck out in my head; Giroux's versatility in the lineup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 28368340)
Giroux was taking draws for his junior team... pretty sure he was still playing wing. They were literally sending him out to take the draw, and then immediately shifting when he got a chance as I recall. However, that's really beside the point, as he was never really a "center" before he showed up here.

Then I stand corrected. I know he was taking draws at the very least.

Fair enough.

BillDineen 10-17-2010 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 28368372)
I know Paul Byron was centering Giroux at times, but I'm pretty sure they swapped a bit or Giroux was centering a different line at times. I watched some of it, though not all. That was one thing that stuck out in my head; Giroux's versatility in the lineup.



Then I stand corrected. I know he was taking draws at the very least.

Fair enough.

I watched some of the finals only. One thing I seem to remember is Giroux playing on the right boards during their PP, whereas with the flyers he is not.

CS 10-17-2010 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillDineen (Post 28368489)
I watched some of the finals only. One thing I seem to remember is Giroux playing on the right boards during their PP, whereas with the flyers he is not.

Our centers play there on the PP as well. No centers play the high slot or crash the middle; at least I haven't seen that in a LONG time. That's usually a winger.

Jester 10-17-2010 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 28368566)
Our centers play there on the PP as well. No centers play the high slot or crash the middle; at least I haven't seen that in a LONG time. That's usually a winger.

I mean, who plays the halfboards is kind of independent of being a "center" or "wing." Richards and Leino work off the right side as left handed shots, whereas Briere, Carter, and Giroux work off the left side because they're right handed shots.

We've also been running an umbrella-type PP unit the last few years... so you have the one net man (Knuble/Hartnell) and then the roamer who slides in and out of the holes or the two-man game with whichever side you're working the puck from down low... and the high slot position comes out of the rotation from the wall (or the opposite side top guy sliding in to look for the shot off the pass).

Larry44 10-17-2010 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 (Post 28366054)
I might start to tweak them if I was Laviolette. I would leave the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line intact, but I would change the other ones. I would try:

JVR-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Carcillo-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Betts-Nodl

Thoughts?

I don't know why Briere's line would stay intact as a given. It seems pretty dumb to structure your whole lineup around the 3rd line.

Playing the top goal scorer and best all around centre, Carter, out of position is just dumb - and Lavy's stubborness in sticking to it is bordering on ridiculous. It isn't working, and no one else is scoring at ES either. I guess it's possible that it's part of Homer's plan to keep Carter's totals down so they can sign him cheaper, otherwise it doesn't make any sense at all.

Carter and Richards are the two best centres, and should be lined up accordingly to anchor two lines. Briere isn't good enough defensively to match up against the other teams' top lines.

Whether Briere or Giroux are the 3rd centre is not relevant. Danny's best work has been on the PP with other players, and Claude's been great on the PK playing with Richards.

Last year, one of our best lines was Hartnell-Carter-Briere despite the wingers having bad years amid personal tumoil.

There are lots of options that might work better than what we're doing now, and would be worth trying:

JVR-Carter-Zherdev
Carcillo-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Briere-Leino

I like this option because it would get JVR and Zherdev more ES ice time to make up for getting less PP time. Richards and Giroux get PP and PK time.

or

Hartnell-Carter-Briere
Leino-Richards-Zherdev
JVR-Giroux-Carcillo

or

JVR-Carter-Leino
Carcillo-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Giroux

CS 10-17-2010 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 28368672)
I mean, who plays the halfboards is kind of independent of being a "center" or "wing." Richards and Leino work off the right side as left handed shots, whereas Briere, Carter, and Giroux work off the left side because they're right handed shots.

We've also been running an umbrella-type PP unit the last few years... so you have the one net man (Knuble/Hartnell) and then the roamer who slides in and out of the holes or the two-man game with whichever side you're working the puck from down low... and the high slot position comes out of the rotation from the wall (or the opposite side top guy sliding in to look for the shot off the pass).

Exactly. That's why I said where Giroux played on the PP is fairly irrelevant to where he was in the lineup.

I'm more interested in his open ice duties and back-checking duties. That's more what defines the center position. Offensively we know he won't be in front of the net even on even strength situations.

Giroux would be perfectly fine on the wing here. There is no necessity to have him play center. His numbers may not be as high as opposed to him being a center, but that's what happens.

CptCannon 10-17-2010 03:58 PM

I'd keep the HBL-line together, they haven't been the same that they were in the playoffs but they've been doing fine. Though, I'd mix the other top lines.

Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JvR-Carter-Carcillo
Giroux-Richards-Zherdev
Shelley-Betts-Powe

That would keep Z and G together while separating Carter and Richie.

SolidSnakeUS 10-17-2010 04:00 PM

Nodl-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Carter-Leino
JVR-Briere-Giroux
Shelley-Betts-Powe

I honestly liked what I saw of Nodl, quick enough, got in and did things (to a point) and didn't take stupid penalties.


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