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-   -   umberger signs with flyers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=83897)

Son of Steinbrenner 06-14-2004 10:15 AM

umberger signs with flyers
 
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=87614

let the BS sather bashing begin

deathbear 06-14-2004 10:19 AM

so the rangers get yet another second round draft pick. how many is that now, four?

you guys should be able to move up in the draft.

klingsor 06-14-2004 10:21 AM

Well, I don't know if this ain't gonna make Sather look like a fool in a couple of years, but I'd bet on it.

klingsor 06-14-2004 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathbear
so the rangers get yet another second round draft pick. how many is that now, four?

you guys should be able to move up in the draft.

Unless I'm mistaken, we had that compensatory pick even if he signed with us after 6/1.

deathbear 06-14-2004 10:23 AM

i can't see how. i mean, certainly not more than vancouver who drafted him in the first palce. it does appear, however, that this kid has a bit of an ego and will not be fun to deal with come future contract negotiations.

rnyquist 06-14-2004 10:23 AM

I think we're up to 5 2nds- Ours, Florida's, MTL, Edmonton and Umberger

allrevvedup25 06-14-2004 10:27 AM

This is a big mistake by Sather, we are re-building, why not sign him and give him a chance to develop!! This makes it tough to cheer for Sather during a rebuild, if he won't sign prospects or young players, what will he sign?? I guess he figures that 31 years old is young compared to himself!!

Bluenote13 06-14-2004 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allrevvedup25
This is a big mistake by Sather, we are re-building, why not sign him and give him a chance to develop!! This makes it tough to cheer for Sather during a rebuild, if he won't sign prospects or young players, what will he sign?? I guess he figures that 31 years old is young compared to himself!!


Tell ya the truth, and i know this will come off as sour grapes, but the few games i watched him play in, he never wowed me, and i wondered why such a big guy didn't play physical. Truthfully, i'm glad the Umberger talk is done with. Let's move on to the draft.

JR#9* 06-14-2004 10:42 AM

We'll find out 1st hand whether or not Slats **** this up or made the right choice but to me letting him walk is a huge gamble being that he is a center and has above average size and top 2 line potential so as usual I don't follow Slats' thinking here but either way this ahole better be right about this one.

Carter-Umberger 1-2 down the middle for Philly looks pretty enticing. :shakehead

John Flyers Fan 06-14-2004 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR#9
Well find out 1st hand whether or not Slats **** this up or made the right choice but to me letting him walk is a huge gamble being that he is a center and has above average size and top 2 line potential so as usual I don't follow Slats' thinking here but either way this ahole better be right about this one.

Carter-Umberger 1-2 down the middle for Philly looks pretty enticing. :shakehead

My guess is that Umberger may be moved to the wing.

Center is our deepest position by far, and wing is our weakest.

As of today Umberger would likely be our 3rd best center prospect behind Carter and Richards. we also have Patrick Sharp who split time between the Flyers and Phantoms this year.

Our wing depth is pretty sad with just Ruzicka and Eager as bonafide prospects.

Son of Steinbrenner 06-14-2004 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR#9
Well find out 1st hand whether or not Slats **** this up or made the right choice but to me letting him walk is a huge gamble being that he is a center and has above average size and top 2 line potential so as usual I don't follow Slats' thinking here but either way this ahole better be right about this one.

Carter-Umberger 1-2 down the middle for Philly looks pretty enticing. :shakehead

maybe if umberger looked good in practice and had a eager additude the rangers would have signed him. my only question is if umbergers rights weren't traded to the rangers don't you think the rangers would have have pushed to sign him? i do. i really can't bash sather for this non move but i guess i can see how others can. you said it best we are going to see first hand how good he really is.

RangerBoy 06-14-2004 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
My guess is that Umberger may be moved to the wing.

Center is our deepest position by far, and wing is our weakest.

As of today Umberger would likely be our 3rd best center prospect behind Carter and Richards. we also have Patrick Sharp who split time between the Flyers and Phantoms this year.

Our wing depth is pretty sad with just Ruzicka and Eager as bonafide prospects.

The Flyers will eventually move most of those guys

They are just like the Rangers when it comes to moving their youth

Bluenote13 06-14-2004 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerBoy
The Flyers will eventually move most of those guys

They are just like the Rangers when it comes to moving their youth

Carter & Richards are both going to be players, I doubt they're moved. If anyone i'd move Umberger before those two.

Kodiak 06-14-2004 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
My guess is that Umberger may be moved to the wing.

Center is our deepest position by far, and wing is our weakest.

As of today Umberger would likely be our 3rd best center prospect behind Carter and Richards. we also have Patrick Sharp who split time between the Flyers and Phantoms this year.

Our wing depth is pretty sad with just Ruzicka and Eager as bonafide prospects.

I think Umberger would stay at center for the time being. Carter and Richards are good prospects, but still years away from the NHL. The Flyers may have good prospect depth at center, but the immediate future of the big club is up in the air. Roenick and Sharp are the only centers under contract for next season. Handzus is restricted and will be brought back, but Primeau and Zhamnov could easily jump ship. And with the concussions Roenick suffered, who knows how much time he has left or how healthy he will be for the rest of his playing days.

I think Umberger gives you a young offensive center that is close to NHL-ready, and that's exactly what you need. Primeau (if he comes back) and Handzus are better suited to shut-down roles, IMO. Roenick is on his last legs, and I wouldn't trust Sharp with an offensive role. If Roenick goes down, Umberger plays next year.

John Flyers Fan 06-14-2004 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
I think Umberger would stay at center for the time being. Carter and Richards are good prospects, but still years away from the NHL. The Flyers may have good prospect depth at center, but the immediate future of the big club is up in the air. Roenick and Sharp are the only centers under contract for next season. Handzus is restricted and will be brought back, but Primeau and Zhamnov could easily jump ship. And with the concussions Roenick suffered, who knows how much time he has left or how healthy he will be for the rest of his playing days.

I think Umberger gives you a young offensive center that is close to NHL-ready, and that's exactly what you need. Primeau (if he comes back) and Handzus are better suited to shut-down roles, IMO. Roenick is on his last legs, and I wouldn't trust Sharp with an offensive role. If Roenick goes down, Umberger plays next year.

I'd say that Carter is more NHL ready than Umberger. Umberger didn't play at all last year, while Carter was one of the best players in the OHL and the WJC.

After the season Carter than jined the Phantoms and was one of their best players in the playoffs.


About our centers for the upcoming year.

J.R. will likely be back
Handzus will be re-signed
Primeau and Zhamnov are Clarke's top two priorities.


On the wing one of, if not both of LeClair & Amonte will be bougt out of their contracts.

Recchi is also a UFA, and while the Flyers want him back, and Recchi wants to come back, that signing will wait until a CBA is done, and the Flyers see what the new rules are.

Clarke's UFA priorities are

1. Primeau



2. Zhamnov

3. Malakhov


4. Recchi

RangerBoy 06-14-2004 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
I think Umberger would stay at center for the time being. Carter and Richards are good prospects, but still years away from the NHL. The Flyers may have good prospect depth at center, but the immediate future of the big club is up in the air. Roenick and Sharp are the only centers under contract for next season. Handzus is restricted and will be brought back, but Primeau and Zhamnov could easily jump ship. And with the concussions Roenick suffered, who knows how much time he has left or how healthy he will be for the rest of his playing days.

I think Umberger gives you a young offensive center that is close to NHL-ready, and that's exactly what you need. Primeau (if he comes back) and Handzus are better suited to shut-down roles, IMO. Roenick is on his last legs, and I wouldn't trust Sharp with an offensive role. If Roenick goes down, Umberger plays next year.

Jeff Carter and Mike Richards are more advanced prospects than RJ Umberger with Carter and Richards being 2-3 years younger than Umberger

Umberger has not played a game in over one year

You are vastly overrating this guy?

Fletch 06-14-2004 11:11 AM

allrevved...
 
I hear your concerns, but I don't think the Rangers should sign any and all youth as possible. There's still only so many positions. You need to indentify holes and go about filling those holes systematically. So many in here (and this is not directed at any in particular) are saying sign this kid, sign that kid, etc., etc. As a GM, there's only so many of whom you can sign. You can have too much because some youth will suffer at the expense of others. And obviously just because a kid is young and/or a former first round pick doesn't automatically make him the guy to sign and to possibly waste time developing when you have other plans, whatever they may be. I hate Sather as much as the next guy and think he's done a pretty bad job, but unfortunately he also has a tough job. Even with money, the right decisions still have to be made. We're not privvy to what they saw in R.J.. But choosing to sign him was not a no-brainer just because he's young and available.

allrevvedup25 06-14-2004 11:23 AM

Fletch

I respect what you are trying to say but although RJ's attitude is in question. He still had top 2 line potential. The Rangers don't have any prospects with that much upside (yes I agree someone might suprise us, but that is rare) If they would have signed him, he would have been a valuable asset, he had size, played center and had untapped skill!! Now that the Flyers have signed him, he will play extra hard against the Rangers and Canucks 6 times a year because we "passed" on him.

As for sign this young guy, sign that young guy. If there is a young prospect with a lot of potential, sign him!! The ones that will lose out are the borderline prospects that only stuck with the team because the Rags only had a few. RJ, if signed by the Rags, would be top 5 on the depth chart.

HockeyBurd* 06-14-2004 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
I think Umberger gives you a young offensive center that is close to NHL-ready, and that's exactly what you need.

How is he close to NHL ready? He is as far away as a prospect can be.

BLACKBURN 06-14-2004 11:39 AM

people keep saying the Rangers should have signed him. Maybe he didnt want to sign with the Rangers :dunno: Its a possibility that sounds quite likely to me considering that when he arrived in New York he wasnt over the moon. He talked about Pittsburg almost as soon as he arrived. I think he could haunt us but maybe Sather tried to sign him and wasnt given the option.

HockeyBurd* 06-14-2004 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klingsor
Well, I don't know if this ain't gonna make Sather look like a fool in a couple of years, but I'd bet on it.

And how would that make Brian Burke look? That makes two teams that have passed on Umberger's services. A very interesting way to start an NHL career. Good luck to him in Philly. I'm just glad I won't have to keep reading about the ongoing Umberger/Rangers saga.

pld459666 06-14-2004 11:49 AM

I just feel that with sather great track record
 
in evaluating players that this is going to haunt us for a while.

Guys that he should sign he doesn, guys he shouldn't trade he does and when it comes to a 1st rounder with size, and skill for a position we are desperate to fill, he allow him to sign with the Flyers.


I understand that you can't sign everyone, but when they address a serious need, then that has to be a priority.

Sather's skills in evaluating players at this point in his career are assbackwards and to a large extent non-existant.

I hope Umberger lights us up on a regular.

At this point I pray each night for something else to happen to Sather so that some day soon he gets tossed.

GKJ 06-14-2004 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
we also have Patrick Sharp who split time between the Flyers and Phantoms this year.


Who, unless something else happens, will be with the Flyers full time next season.

Umberger will probably be in the AHL, learning to play RW.

Although the Phantoms are short on Centers, so maybe Carter or Richards will be making the switch.

HockeyBurd* 06-14-2004 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLACKBURN
people keep saying the Rangers should have signed him. Maybe he didnt want to sign with the Rangers :dunno: Its a possibility that sounds quite likely to me considering that when he arrived in New York he wasnt over the moon. He talked about Pittsburg almost as soon as he arrived. I think he could haunt us but maybe Sather tried to sign him and wasnt given the option.

Exactly. Before June 1st I'm sure he could have been signed. But maybe Sather's staff was so unimpressed by him (which is exactly what we keep hearing) that they felt a second round pick was too much to give up. Perhaps they felt it worth the risk to get the second and then try to sign Umberger. Or perhaps they had no intention of signing him at all. But in the end it could be very wrong to assume that after June 1st it was all up to Sather. RJ may have had zero intention of signing with the Rangers. Where would you rather sign? A team that consistently competes for the Cup and assures you they are committed to playing young guys that offers you a potential max contract or the Rangers? Lets be honest. Our team pretty much has been the laughing stock of the NHL over the last several seasons. If I were in Umberger's position and had no previous vested interest in the Rangers I wouldn't want to sign here either.

Park #2 06-14-2004 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=87614

let the BS sather bashing begin

I hope some of your criticism of me will now subside.


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