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seventieslord 11-12-2010 12:43 AM

Longest Current Tenures with current team?
 
I thought it would be a nice reference thread to maintain on the HOH board (or the main board, even) where a running top-30 list of the longest unbroken tenures with the same team is kept.

The hard part is probably starting the list, the easy part is maintaining it over the years after that.

I know Nicklas Lidstrom is #1, and I think Doan is #2, but beyond that I don't know. Anyone want to start putting it together?

What makes more sense? Total games, or date acquired by the franchise?

John Flyers Fan 11-12-2010 01:03 AM

With the off-season trade of Gagne, the Flyers might have the shortest in he league. Not a single player from before the lockout.

Carter and Richards would be tied, with both being in the lineup for opening night 2005-06.

John Flyers Fan 11-12-2010 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventieslord (Post 28894096)
I thought it would be a nice reference thread to maintain on the HOH board (or the main board, even) where a running top-30 list of the longest unbroken tenures with the same team is kept.

The hard part is probably starting the list, the easy part is maintaining it over the years after that.

I know Nicklas Lidstrom is #1, and I think Doan is #2, but beyond that I don't know. Anyone want to start putting it together?

What makes more sense? Total games, or date acquired by the franchise?

Lidstrom would be one, Brodeur would be ahead of Doan for the second spot.

Alvvays 11-12-2010 01:11 AM

Lecavalier, Iginla, and Elias?

TheDevilMadeMe 11-12-2010 01:19 AM

Lidstrom, Brodeur, Alfredsson, Doan, Iginla are all up there. Too lazy to make a full list.

JojoTheWhale 11-12-2010 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan (Post 28894350)
Lidstrom would be one, Brodeur would be ahead of Doan for the second spot.

This, and I believe Alfredsson would be tied with Doan for third.

Elias would be a gray area since he played exactly 1 game in 95-96, so he either falls with the previous two or the following group, depending on your definition.

Then the following year would be Holmstrom and Iginla.

JSmith81x 11-12-2010 01:37 AM

1425 - Nicklas Lidstrom, DET
1090 - Martin Brodeur, NJ
1056 - Shane Doan, WPG/PHX
1038 - Jarome Iginla, CGY
1017 - Daniel Alfredsson, OTT
966 - Patrick Marleau, SJ
896 - Patrik Elias, NJ
892 - Tomas Holmstrom, DET
882 - Vincent Lecavalier, TB
879 - Chris Phillips, OTT
853 - Milan Hejduk, COL
835 - Tomas Kaberle, TOR
761 - Robyn Regehr, CGY
742 - Henrik Sedin, VAN
719 - Daniel Sedin, VAN
717 - David Legwand, NSH
689 - Colin White, NJ
681 - Brenden Morrow, DAL
649 - Shawn Horcoff, EDM
636 - Mike Fisher, OTT
621 - Andrei Markov, MTL
620 - Nick Schultz, MIN
619 - Pavel Datsyuk, DET
595 - Chris Neil, OTT
559 - Martin Erat, NSH
520 - Henrik Zetterberg, DET

steve141 11-12-2010 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayzinSmith (Post 28894584)
1425 - Nicklas Lidstrom, DET
1090 - Martin Brodeur, NJ
1056 - Shane Doan, WPG/PHX
1038 - Jarome Iginla, CGY
1017 - Daniel Alfredsson, OTT
966 - Patrick Marleau, SJ
896 - Patrik Elias, NJ
892 - Tomas Holmstrom, DET
882 - Vincent Lecavalier, TB
853 - Milan Hejduk, COL
835 - Tomas Kaberle, TOR
761 - Robyn Regehr, CGY
742 - Henrik Sedin, VAN
719 - Daniel Sedin, VAN
717 - David Legwand, NSH
649 - Shawn Horcoff, EDM
621 - Andrei Markov, MTL
620 - Nick Schultz, MIN
619 - Pavel Datsyuk, DET

Used Hockey Reference and I don't know if they've added in tonight's games yet, so some may be off one.

1090 - Kris Draper, DET

seventieslord 11-12-2010 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayzinSmith (Post 28894584)
1425 - Nicklas Lidstrom, DET
1090 - Martin Brodeur, NJ
1056 - Shane Doan, WPG/PHX
1038 - Jarome Iginla, CGY
1017 - Daniel Alfredsson, OTT
966 - Patrick Marleau, SJ
896 - Patrik Elias, NJ
892 - Tomas Holmstrom, DET
882 - Vincent Lecavalier, TB
853 - Milan Hejduk, COL
835 - Tomas Kaberle, TOR
761 - Robyn Regehr, CGY
742 - Henrik Sedin, VAN
719 - Daniel Sedin, VAN
717 - David Legwand, NSH
649 - Shawn Horcoff, EDM
621 - Andrei Markov, MTL
620 - Nick Schultz, MIN
619 - Pavel Datsyuk, DET

Used Hockey Reference and I don't know if they've added in tonight's games yet, so some may be off one.

Good stuff.

Nick Schultz, hey? Now there's a guy who flies under the radar.

Epsilon 11-12-2010 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve141 (Post 28894921)
1090 - Kris Draper, DET

Draper isn't included because he played 20 games for Winnipeg before playing for Detroit.

RabbinsDuck 11-12-2010 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epsilon (Post 28897384)
Draper isn't included because he played 20 games for Winnipeg before playing for Detroit.

"current team" seems to be the original parameters, however.

Epsilon 11-12-2010 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RabbinsDuck (Post 28897428)
"current team" seems to be the original parameters, however.

Yeah I'm not totally sure what the intent of the OP was (to include players like Draper or not), just commenting on how the list was generated from Hockey-Reference.

TheDevilMadeMe 11-12-2010 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayzinSmith (Post 28894584)
1425 - Nicklas Lidstrom, DET
1090 - Martin Brodeur, NJ
1056 - Shane Doan, WPG/PHX
1038 - Jarome Iginla, CGY
1017 - Daniel Alfredsson, OTT
966 - Patrick Marleau, SJ
896 - Patrik Elias, NJ
892 - Tomas Holmstrom, DET
882 - Vincent Lecavalier, TB
853 - Milan Hejduk, COL
835 - Tomas Kaberle, TOR
761 - Robyn Regehr, CGY
742 - Henrik Sedin, VAN
719 - Daniel Sedin, VAN
717 - David Legwand, NSH
649 - Shawn Horcoff, EDM
621 - Andrei Markov, MTL
620 - Nick Schultz, MIN
619 - Pavel Datsyuk, DET

Used Hockey Reference and I don't know if they've added in tonight's games yet, so some may be off one.

I assume this doesn't include games when a goalie sat on the bench as a backup? Otherwise it seems odd for Brodeur to be that far behind Lidstrom.

seventieslord 11-12-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epsilon (Post 28897614)
Yeah I'm not totally sure what the intent of the OP was (to include players like Draper or not), just commenting on how the list was generated from Hockey-Reference.

Yeah, definitely the intent was to include guys like Draper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 28898790)
I assume this doesn't include games when a goalie sat on the bench as a backup? Otherwise it seems odd for Brodeur to be that far behind Lidstrom.

that's right, the list was based on GP. I think there are two ways to do it - GP and date acquired by franchise. In most cases, the two would align pretty closely.

JSmith81x 11-12-2010 01:11 PM

Draper's off the list because I forgot about him -- w/ 0 GP this season, he wasn't on the stat pages --, but, yes, I only listed players who have been one team (except Doan, but since the team moved, that doesn't really count).

Also forgotten:
879 - Chris Phillips, OTT
689 - Colin White, NJ
681 - Brenden Morrow, DAL
636 - Mike Fisher, OTT

To extend the bottom of the list:
595 - Chris Neil, OTT
559 - Martin Erat, NSH
520 - Henrik Zetterberg, DET

Derick* 11-12-2010 01:48 PM

Marleau often gets overlooked by these because he had to play in Nolan's shadow then in Thornton's, and he was never close to being as good as either of them, but he's been with us since the dawn of time. I remember editing lines in NHL 99 and seeing him there.

overg 11-12-2010 05:32 PM

Correlation or causation that the Red Wings have 4 (5 if you count Draper) players on that list?

In other words, has the stability led to the winning, or has the winning led to the stability? Or perhaps neither is true. Still, if I were a GM, I'd pay some attention to lists like this.

Derick* 11-12-2010 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overg (Post 28904611)
Correlation or causation that the Red Wings have 4 (5 if you count Draper) players on that list?

In other words, has the stability led to the winning, or has the winning led to the stability? Or perhaps neither is true. Still, if I were a GM, I'd pay some attention to lists like this.

I really don't like the term "correlation or causation?" or the saying "correlation doesn't mean causation." If the things seem related, it almost always does mean causation. The mistake people make is not realizing that there's multiple ways the causation could be going (x causes y, y causes x, or z causes x and y), not that they think there's some kind of causation.

steve141 11-13-2010 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overg (Post 28904611)
Correlation or causation that the Red Wings have 4 (5 if you count Draper) players on that list?

In other words, has the stability led to the winning, or has the winning led to the stability? Or perhaps neither is true. Still, if I were a GM, I'd pay some attention to lists like this.

Both, especially in a cap world keeping players for life is cheaper than signing expensive free agents.

overg 11-13-2010 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cognition (Post 28904871)
I really don't like the term "correlation or causation?" or the saying "correlation doesn't mean causation." If the things seem related, it almost always does mean causation. The mistake people make is not realizing that there's multiple ways the causation could be going (x causes y, y causes x, or z causes x and y), not that they think there's some kind of causation.

Of course it's an overly simplistic dualism. I just liked the alliteration. If I'd been sharper, I would have added "coincidence."

Here's my real answer. The Wings got their core, won, and stayed loyal to that core, which continued winning. And so the Wings have developed a culture of loyalty by keeping winners, which has led to more winning, which has led to players who want to stay there, meaning they've been able to restock their core with more loyal players as older players moved on.

X causes Y which leads to more X, which leads to more Y. It's a system that feeds itself. At some point it will break down, either because the Wings won't be able to keep all of their winners (the cap and Lidstrom's age spring to mind), or because other teams will overtake and surpass their core, but I do think "team loyalty" is a very strong brand that the Wings have been able to establish. Especially in this cap world.

Derick* 11-13-2010 09:21 AM

Not to belittle your post, which was well thought out, but I didn't necessarily mean that comment as a disagreement.

TheDevilMadeMe 11-13-2010 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overg (Post 28904611)
Correlation or causation that the Red Wings have 4 (5 if you count Draper) players on that list?

In other words, has the stability led to the winning, or has the winning led to the stability? Or perhaps neither is true. Still, if I were a GM, I'd pay some attention to lists like this.

Devils are right behind the Red Wings in terms of player stability too. (Taken away their current gong show of a season, they are probably the 2nd most successful team of the past 15 years).

reckoning 11-13-2010 03:25 PM

I've assembled a timeline of who led the league with the longest tenure with one team, and who took over when their string ended from the start of the NHA to today. I didn't do a tally of games played, just the number of consecutive seasons that a player played at least one game with the same team. Hopefully I didn't make any mistakes:

Start: Georges Vezina
1925: Frank Nighbor
1930: King Clancy
1930: Aurel Joliat
1938: Eddie Shore
1940: Dit Clapper
1947: Bill Cowley
1947: Toe Blake
1948: Jack Crawford
1950: Elmer Lach
1954: Butch Bouchard (Shared with Bill Mosienko the first season)
1956: Maurice Richard
1960: Gordie Howe
1971: Alex Delvecchio
1974: Henri Richard
1975: Johnny Bucyk
1978: Stan Mikita
1980: Serge Savard
1981: Wayne Cashman
1983: Bobby Clarke & Tony Esposito
1984: Gilbert Perreault
1987: Larry Robinson & Billy Smith
1989: Ron Greschner
1990: Dave Taylor (Shared with Doug Wilson the first season)
1994: Ray Bourque
2000: Steve Yzerman (shared with Ken Daneyko until 2003)
2006: Joe Sakic
2009: Mike Modano
2010: Nicklas Lidstrom

steve141 11-13-2010 03:27 PM

Another observation from JayzinSmith's list is that almost 1 in 4 players are Swedes.

I know Mats Sundin talked in an interview about how shocked he and other Swedish players were that he was forced out of Toronto. He said that trading players between teams is not at all as common in Sweden, so it's a bit of a cultural shock for the Swedish players to realise that they might get traded any day. He also said most of the Swedish players are very loyal to the teams that brought them across the pond, and most often assume that they will play the rest of their career there.

goooal 11-13-2010 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 28916546)
Devils are right behind the Red Wings in terms of player stability too. (Taken away their current gong show of a season, they are probably the 2nd most successful team of the past 15 years).

How would 17 games (thus far) over the course of 15 years tarnish their record so much that it would actually effect their standing in that regard? :help:


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