HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   New York Rangers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24)
-   -   How far away are the Rangers from putting together a contender? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=84272)

vega007 06-16-2004 03:23 AM

How far away are the Rangers from putting together a contender?
 
I personally think 2-3 years myself. The Rangers have great potential and are doing it right this time, they have a tonne of picks in the next two drafts and will build around these guys. I fully expect the Rangers to make the playoffs consistenly about three years from now.

Line combos for next season?

vega007 06-16-2004 03:26 AM

also if you guys do keep the sixth overall pick, DO NOT draft Andrew Ladd. I have the benefit of seeing him play 40+ games a year in Cowtown and the only reason he is so high is because he's always on the ice with Ryan Getzlaf.

Edge 06-16-2004 05:53 AM

That's interesting. I had the benefit of seeing him about 23 times this season and he wasn't on the ice with Getzlaf all that much.

In fact with the WJC and other factors {including ducks camp} Getzlaf himself played only a little over 40 games.

If I remember correctly, Ladd spent quite a bit of time with Landolt and even some time with zalasky.

That's actually one reason why he kept rising in eyes of many scouts. He started the season carrying the team {even with the departure of Segal} and then spent a minimum of 23 games without Getzlaf in which he did just fine.

It's like of like the old Lindros-Leclair combination. At first everyone thought it was Lindros and before long they realized that Leclair was doing just fine himself.

Are they better together? Sure, but so are many good combo's. Both will be just fine without the other.

Ladd proved himself by often carrying that team when others left.

vega007 06-16-2004 07:06 AM

Ladds stock rose VERY late in the season, when playing on a line with Getzlaf and O'Malley. Before that he wasn't expected to go in the first round. Now people are saying he's a surefire top ten. Having watched the many Hitmen prospects fail over the past few years, I can't tell you how little I expect from Ladd in the pros. I do hope I'm wrong, I like the guy, but I really don't think he ever makes it pro, not even AHL.

Potted Plant 06-16-2004 07:36 AM

To answer the original question, I think it all depends. We could make the playoffs as early as 2005-2006 if everything goes right. Meaning, if Balej, Prucha, Jessiman, Pock, Tyutin and our draft picks from the next two years become quick contributors, we may return to the playoffs rather quickly. More realistically it will probably take at least an additional year, and if the breaks go against us, it could be quite a long time indeed.

NYR469 06-16-2004 07:37 AM

ladd's stock only rose late in the season on teh CSS rankings...everyone else had him as a top 7 pick all year

and the rangers won't have to worry about making this decision cause ladd will be gone before the #6 pick comes up

donpaulo 06-16-2004 08:46 AM

I think the rangers are more like 3 to 5 years from putting together a contender. I think it will take at least 3 years to develop the blueline to the point of considering the rangers as contending for anything.
Unless they go out and sign a bunch of UFA's again in which case it will be more than 5 years.

DarthSather99 06-16-2004 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donpaulo
I think the rangers are more like 3 to 5 years from putting together a contender. I think it will take at least 3 years to develop the blueline to the point of considering the rangers as contending for anything.
Unless they go out and sign a bunch of UFA's again in which case it will be more than 5 years.



I'm on board with you, my setiments exactly .....DRAFT TUKONEN!!!

Son of Steinbrenner 06-16-2004 09:39 AM

with the right system and the right coach the rangers may be able to contend for the playoffs next season. having jagr here takes a lot of heat off the younger players because jagr will stil get his goals and other teams will matchup there best forwards and defenseman on his line.

if sather screws up the coach again it could set this franchise back another 2 years.

nrf83 06-16-2004 10:02 AM

The state of NYR playoff hopes rests directly on their goaltending. I think Dunham is gone, and good ridence. He was horrible. If they acquire a vetern goalie, they would need him only for 1 to 2 years. I could see, say Hasek for 1 year and NYR option for 2nd. If LaBarbera can cut it, let him backup, and trade Dunham. This would allow Blackburn a full year at Hartford to re-develop his game and confidence. This would allow NYR to put together a solid core of youngsters to make a run at the playoffs in about 2-3 years. Of course if Slats deceides he wants playoffs tomorrow all bets are off and the UFA's will start arriving.

John Flyers Fan 06-16-2004 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vega007
How far away are the Rangers from putting together a contender?

Depends on what you mean by contender. Are you talking about a playoff spot, or contending to win a Stanley Cup ?


At this point the Rangers lack perhaps the two most important things in today's NHL.

Great coach.

#1 Goaltender.

Davisian 06-16-2004 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Depends on what you mean by contender. Are you talking about a playoff spot, or contending to win a Stanley Cup ?


At this point the Rangers lack perhaps the two most important things in today's NHL.

Great coach.

#1 Goaltender.


As well as the third most important team trait.

Team Speed

Fletch 06-16-2004 10:49 AM

No timetable...
 
just right the ship. There's some decent prospects and other suspects who can surprise. Right now it's about replenishing the cupboard with as many decent players/players with decent potential and building it. Could be one year if certain things happen. Could be two. Could be five. Could be never.

Bluenote13 06-16-2004 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vega007
Ladds stock rose VERY late in the season, when playing on a line with Getzlaf and O'Malley. Before that he wasn't expected to go in the first round. Now people are saying he's a surefire top ten. Having watched the many Hitmen prospects fail over the past few years, I can't tell you how little I expect from Ladd in the pros. I do hope I'm wrong, I like the guy, but I really don't think he ever makes it pro, not even AHL.

Not go in the first round? Not even in AHL?

:shakehead

Kodiak 06-16-2004 11:31 AM

I think a lot of you are being very optimistic about the rebuilding timeframe. There are three basic phases that a team needs to go through to go from the basement to a contender:
  1. gathering talent
  2. solidifying a young core
  3. developing the team as a whole

We're still in phase 1. We have some good prospects, but we just don't have the ponies to get back in the race. If we have a big draft this year and next year then we might be out of phase 1. And even when we hit phase 2, it will take a couple of years to get back in the playoffs, and a few more years before we can make some noise. So I'd say realistically, it would take 2-3 years to get into the playoffs if we're lucky (more likely 3-4 years), and definitely 5+ years before we can even think about making a run at the Cup. These things take a lot of time, but if it's done right, hopefully we can be a team like Colorado, Detroit, New Jersey, etc.

klingsor 06-16-2004 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donpaulo
I think the rangers are more like 3 to 5 years from putting together a contender. I think it will take at least 3 years to develop the blueline to the point of considering the rangers as contending for anything.
Unless they go out and sign a bunch of UFA's again in which case it will be more than 5 years.

Anything can happen, but that sounds very realistic to me.
I can wait, but can Dolan?

Slewfoot 06-16-2004 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
I think a lot of you are being very optimistic about the rebuilding timeframe. There are three basic phases that a team needs to go through to go from the basement to a contender:
  1. gathering talent
  2. solidifying a young core
  3. developing the team as a whole

We're still in phase 1. We have some good prospects, but we just don't have the ponies to get back in the race. If we have a big draft this year and next year then we might be out of phase 1. And even when we hit phase 2, it will take a couple of years to get back in the playoffs, and a few more years before we can make some noise. So I'd say realistically, it would take 2-3 years to get into the playoffs if we're lucky (more likely 3-4 years), and definitely 5+ years before we can even think about making a run at the Cup. These things take a lot of time, but if it's done right, hopefully we can be a team like Colorado, Detroit, New Jersey, etc.

I don't agree that it has to take more than 2 years to make a run considering the state of the current NHL. I am not saying the Rangers will be in the finals in the next 1-2 years , but I don't think the formula that existed 10 years ago still exists today. The last couple of years we have seen teams come from the bottom of the league to contenders(Hurricanes , Ducks , Flames).

Kodiak 06-16-2004 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slewfoot
I don't agree that it has to take more than 2 years to make a run considering the state of the current NHL. I am not saying the Rangers will be in the finals in the next 1-2 years , but I don't think the formula that existed 10 years ago still exists today. The last couple of years we have seen teams come from the bottom of the league to contenders(Hurricanes , Ducks , Flames).

But did any of those teams win? And are any of those teams really considered threats to win the Cup in the next 3 years? I'm not talking about a cinderella run. I'm talking about building a true contender that has a good shot at winning the Cup year-in and year-out for an extended period of time. There is no shortcut for that.

Slewfoot 06-16-2004 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
But did any of those teams win? And are any of those teams really considered threats to win the Cup in the next 3 years? I'm not talking about a cinderella run. I'm talking about building a true contender that has a good shot at winning the Cup year-in and year-out for an extended period of time. There is no shortcut for that.

Didn't you say :
"So I'd say realistically, it would take 2-3 years to get into the playoffs if we're lucky (more likely 3-4 years), and definitely 5+ years before we can even think about making a run at the Cup."
2 seasons ago , Calgary , Anaheim + Tampa Bay all missed the playoffs. My point is that it is not easy to predict who will be the contenders each year...

Fletch 06-16-2004 04:44 PM

You're right, Slewfoot...
 
like with Anaheim...if the Rangers have a coach and all of the sudden these guys play well in a system and the goalie stands on his head, there's a chance to surprise. What's the chance? 10% though? I believe Kodiak's trying to be realistic in what he thinks will happen (taking the 50-90% side) as opposed to what could happen. Almost anything can happen, but you need to play the odds and go with your gut when asked what you think will happen.

Slewfoot 06-16-2004 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
like with Anaheim...if the Rangers have a coach and all of the sudden these guys play well in a system and the goalie stands on his head, there's a chance to surprise. What's the chance? 10% though? I believe Kodiak's trying to be realistic in what he thinks will happen (taking the 50-90% side) as opposed to what could happen. Almost anything can happen, but you need to play the odds and go with your gut when asked what you think will happen.

I simply said that I don't think it has to take 3-4 years to make the playoffs.
There are teams like the Islanders and Nashville that also made the playoffs without great coaches , systems and goalies standing on their heads.
Are you saying that there is only a 10% chance that the Rangers will be in the playoffs in the next 3 years ? I certainly hope you are wrong. I am not saying that they will follow Calgary(to the finals) after missing the playoffs 7 straight years.
Maybe I am being too optimistic ???

Fletch 06-16-2004 05:05 PM

Think we're on somewhat different pages...
 
you cited Anaheim, Tampa and Calgary as examples of teams that were out of the playoffs two seasons ago, and all three were competing for the Stanley Cup. So my 10% was for the team to be competing for the Stanley Cup. Given the fact that 16 teams make it to the playoffs and you don't always need to be stellar in the 82-game schedule to make the playoffs, I believe there is better than a 10% chance of making the playoffs as early as next season. It's not out of the question, as it was not out of the question the last seven, but we know those results. Although as of today, given everything where it's at, this team may not even have a 10% chance of making the playoffs as currently constructed this coming season.

Kodiak 06-16-2004 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slewfoot
I simply said that I don't think it has to take 3-4 years to make the playoffs.
There are teams like the Islanders and Nashville that also made the playoffs without great coaches , systems and goalies standing on their heads.
Are you saying that there is only a 10% chance that the Rangers will be in the playoffs in the next 3 years ? I certainly hope you are wrong. I am not saying that they will follow Calgary(to the finals) after missing the playoffs 7 straight years.
Maybe I am being too optimistic ???

The thing that you have to remember is that we are just starting to rebuild. Prior to this year's trading flurry, our farm system was really no better off than it was 7 years ago. Teams like Nashville and Calgary and Tampa Bay that seemingly go from basement dwellers to playoff contenders "out of nowhere" have spent their basement years gathering young talent and molding it into a team. Calgary missed for 7 years straight before they made the playoffs again. Nashville missed the playoffs for their first 5 years before making it this year. In their first 10 years of existence, Tampa Bay made the playoffs once and lost in the first round. These teams that you cite as evidence of quick turnaround and the unpredictability of NHL hockey were actually going through a long, slow, and painful process.

donpaulo 06-16-2004 09:23 PM

Yes these cinderella teams spent years stocking the cupboards... YEARS :D

Its going to take a minimum of 3 to 5 years just to develop the blueline talent on the rangers to the point where they can play consistently during the regular season to warrant a playoff bracket. Then to play well enough in the playoffs to actually be considered a contender.

Thus its quite likely the guys like Holik and Kaspar will be gone by the time this occurs.

The 2 year "rebuilding" plan pretty much calls for another UFA spending spree, and giving minutes to vets instead of kids. A solid Blueline takes years to develop. 2 seasons isn't enough.

Look at teams that have built through the draft such as Ottawa. They were terrible for many years. But built a solid core around Redden and Phillips. Added Chara and now they have a top ranked blueline. If Tyutin develops into a redden type player I would be very happy, but it doesn't happen overnight.

Another team trying to rebuild with kids is Pittsburgh, yet they are still in depths of being plain terrible. Yet they have more upside than the rangers do.

Add to that the Caps. Lots of kids ready to step in on the blueline. But are they going to contend in 2 years ? no way.

A good example might be the Kings. They have been rebuilding over the past few years and now have some very good kids on the blueline who appear ready to step in and make a difference. That and having gotten one of Ottawa's top young prospects in Gleason. I think this is the course the rangers brass has to steer. Slow and steady wins the race.

free0717 06-16-2004 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
with the right system and the right coach the rangers may be able to contend for the playoffs next season. having jagr here takes a lot of heat off the younger players because jagr will stil get his goals and other teams will matchup there best forwards and defenseman on his line.

if sather screws up the coach again it could set this franchise back another 2 years.

Not a chance. The Rangers will contend for the worst record.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:50 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.