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Section M 11-17-2010 10:48 PM

Hamilton Bulldogs Moving??
 
I heard through the grapevine that The Bulldogs may be moving....
Is there any truth to this? Or any other rumours about this possible move??

Jeffler 11-17-2010 10:49 PM

Absolutely not. I could see Montreal dropping the affiliation with them and moving another team, but Hamilton will stay put.

Stanley Foobrick 11-17-2010 11:48 PM

1-Attendance dropping.
2-HECFI losing money and needs to be supported by the taxpayer. HECFI subsidizing the Bulldogs.
3-Bulldogs hands on owner buy a "significant" portion of the Habs.
4-Laval is building a new arena, suitable for AHL. Laval would allow Andlauer to be close to both teams.
5-Marketing here almost dried up.
6-Public interest appears to be at an all time low.
7-Bad economy, especially in the manufacturing area.

There is probably more..... but, yeah, I'd say there is areasonible chance of them moving in 2 years.

wjhl2009fan 11-18-2010 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffler (Post 29018691)
Absolutely not. I could see Montreal dropping the affiliation with them and moving another team, but Hamilton will stay put.

There is a good chance they are moving hecfi is in debt 7 million dollars.Attendance is down very little marketing etc.I even question if they will finish the year in hamilton the way things are now.

Tommy Hawk 11-18-2010 07:22 AM

I think there was a thread on this a year or two ago. Almost every franchise has a possibility of moving with maybe the exception of Hershey but even then, if something happens to the owners......

But that is the nature of minor league sports.

wjhl2009fan 11-18-2010 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk (Post 29022176)
I think there was a thread on this a year or two ago. Almost every franchise has a possibility of moving with maybe the exception of Hershey but even then, if something happens to the owners......

But that is the nature of minor league sports.

Yes but i don't think it was this bad with hamilton before.If it was just attendance you could yes say this happens talk every year of teams moving because of support.However the concern is the govering body that looks after the rinks and trade centre is already in debt 7 million and needs tax payers money which will not go over well at all in any way.

Dogbert* 11-18-2010 07:55 AM

Here's a brilliant idea: Open the upper bowl and sell those seats at cheaper rates. $30 per seat (plus concessions/merch/parking/what have you) is ridiculous for a minor-league team, especially one in a city with a depressed economy like Hamilton.

I can see Montreal moving their team to Laval and Toronto shifting theirs into Copps. That might bring more people in - I'm sure the fact that the Habs' farm team is plopped into the middle of Leafs Nation factors into the poor attendance figures.

wjhl2009fan 11-18-2010 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbert (Post 29022380)
Here's a brilliant idea: Open the upper bowl and sell those seats at cheaper rates. $30 per seat (plus concessions/merch/parking/what have you) is ridiculous for a minor-league team, especially one in a city with a depressed economy like Hamilton.

I can see Montreal moving their team to Laval and Toronto shifting theirs into Copps. That might bring more people in - I'm sure the fact that the Habs' farm team is plopped into the middle of Leafs Nation factors into the poor attendance figures.

Its not just ticket sales that the probleam its concert revenue etc that there lacking is a part of the issue as well.Toronto and hamilton support wise are not known as great supporters of anything but nhl.

axecrew 11-18-2010 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbert (Post 29022380)
I can see Montreal moving their team to Laval and Toronto shifting theirs into Copps.

Maple laughs fans won't even go see their fram team when it's in their backyard, what makes you think they'll go to hamilton to see it.

Dogbert* 11-18-2010 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axecrew (Post 29022641)
Maple laughs fans won't even go see their fram team when it's in their backyard, what makes you think they'll go to hamilton to see it.

Because Hamilton is a Leafs town?

The Leafs seems to get it when it comes to ticket prices. The Marlies are affordable - the problem is that Toronto has the NHL and doesn't care about them. Put them in Copps and give the fans tickets they can afford, though, and you'd have good attendance every night.

Stanley Foobrick 11-18-2010 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan (Post 29022161)
There is a good chance they are moving hecfi is in debt 7 million dollars.Attendance is down very little marketing etc.I even question if they will finish the year in hamilton the way things are now.

They will finish the year, I don't think that's in any question...... how would you sudden plug those games into another buildings schedule?

I guess they could break the current contract and end up St. John's next year as they already have a building but waiting for the Laval arena to be built is the most logical move if one was to come.




Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbert (Post 29022380)
Here's a brilliant idea: Open the upper bowl and sell those seats at cheaper rates. $30 per seat (plus concessions/merch/parking/what have you) is ridiculous for a minor-league team, especially one in a city with a depressed economy like Hamilton.

I can see Montreal moving their team to Laval and Toronto shifting theirs into Copps. That might bring more people in - I'm sure the fact that the Habs' farm team is plopped into the middle of Leafs Nation factors into the poor attendance figures.

Opening the upper bowl actually make the game cost more money to put on, extra security, clean up and such. The other problem is people purchasing the cheap tickets and moving down, with 18,000 seats it would get hard to control.
To me the only real answer for price ranges is to remove a couple of rows half way up the lower bowl thus dividing the bottom teir into 2. You would then have 4 possible prices, upper and lower sides, upper and lower ends. I realize that people could still purchase the cheapest and move about but with a total of 8,000 seats it's more likely moving to an empty seat would become more of a challenge.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbert (Post 29022676)
Because Hamilton is a Leafs town?

The Leafs seems to get it when it comes to ticket prices. The Marlies are affordable - the problem is that Toronto has the NHL and doesn't care about them. Put them in Copps and give the fans tickets they can afford, though, and you'd have good attendance every night.

Marlies in town for 1 of 6 visits and only 2,497 people bothered to show up. Having Toronto's farm team on the ice does not guarantee a good crowd.

wjhl2009fan 11-18-2010 03:12 PM

Blues's Clues
If it came down to it they could place the team in cornwall for the rest of the year.

Stanley Foobrick 11-18-2010 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan (Post 29029122)
Blues's Clues
If it came down to it they could place the team in cornwall for the rest of the year.

What arena? What about travel time when teams are on 3 in 2 1/2 days?

Edit-- found the arena,Cornwall Civic Complex, Ed Lumley Arena

Still if HECFI is losing so much money.... all season ticket holders would have to be refunded, concession revenue for those days would be gone,...... I just can't forsee a situation soooo bad that the team would move mid-season.

wjhl2009fan 11-18-2010 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue'sClues (Post 29029348)
What arena? What about travel time when teams are on 3 in 2 1/2 days?

Edit-- found the arena,Cornwall Civic Complex, Ed Lumley Arena

Still if HECFI is losing so much money.... all season ticket holders would have to be refunded, concession revenue for those days would be gone,...... I just can't forsee a situation soooo bad that the team would move mid-season.

I hope it does not happen but the worst case would be is they have to file for bankruptcy protection.If that does happen yes then i could see the team moving mid season.

CHRDANHUTCH 11-18-2010 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan (Post 29029568)
I hope it does not happen but the worst case would be is they have to file for bankruptcy protection.If that does happen yes then i could see the team moving mid season.

AHL Bylaws prevent something like that from occurring mid-season, Andlauer owns the franchise, HECFI owns Copps, any bankruptcy filing would likely mean the end of Copps as a suitable facility for any other league to go into........

Stanley Foobrick 11-18-2010 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH (Post 29029688)
AHL Bylaws prevent something like that from occurring mid-season, Andlauer owns the franchise, HECFI owns Copps, any bankruptcy filing would likely mean the end of Copps as a suitable facility for any other league to go into........

Has any minor league team ever changed cities mid season, I know some have outright folded but can't think of any moving.....

ChicagoWolves1 11-18-2010 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan (Post 29022161)
There is a good chance they are moving hecfi is in debt 7 million dollars.Attendance is down very little marketing etc.I even question if they will finish the year in hamilton the way things are now.

I cannot envision a scenario where they would move mid-season. I am sure as written there are AHL provisions that would prevent it mid-stream. Has a team actually folded or moved mid-season that anyone can recall?

Rumblick 11-18-2010 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH (Post 29029688)
AHL Bylaws prevent something like that from occurring mid-season, Andlauer owns the franchise, HECFI owns Copps, any bankruptcy filing would likely mean the end of Copps as a suitable facility for any other league to go into........

AHL By Laws exist only in Lord David's mind. Look at the idiotic situation in Hartford.

Stanley Foobrick 11-18-2010 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumblick (Post 29029982)
AHL By Laws exist only in Lord David's mind. Look at the idiotic situation in Hartford.

yes... but that team, whatever that team is, is still playing the same schedule out of the same building, right?

CHRDANHUTCH 11-18-2010 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue'sClues (Post 29029798)
Has any minor league team ever changed cities mid season, I know some have outright folded but can't think of any moving.....

closest was Edmonton(which was the Bulldogs original franchise) getting relocated after the AHL schedule came out which forced several to revise their schedules and then the lockout hit the NHL, which the AHL wasn't thrilled with after the cancellation of the lease @ Ricoh(before the Marlies arrived there)......

Majik1987 11-18-2010 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbert (Post 29022676)
The Leafs seems to get it when it comes to ticket prices. The Marlies are affordable - the problem is that Toronto has the NHL and doesn't care about them. Put them in Copps and give the fans tickets they can afford, though, and you'd have good attendance every night.

Really? The only way you could say the Marlies are affordable is by comparing them to the Leafs. Most teams in the the NHL are a bargin when you compare them to the Leafs, let alone an AHL team.

Put the Marlies prices in the Hamilton market, and you'd see an even further attendance drop. Day of game tickets to the Marlies are $43, $35, $23, and $14 (depending on the section). By comparison, the Bulldogs are $26 anywhere, with kid tickets only $16.

Stanley Foobrick 11-18-2010 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majik1987 (Post 29032984)
Really? The only way you could say the Marlies are affordable is by comparing them to the Leafs. Most teams in the the NHL are a bargin when you compare them to the Leafs, let alone an AHL team.

Put the Marlies prices in the Hamilton market, and you'd see an even further attendance drop. Day of game tickets to the Marlies are $43, $35, $23, and $14 (depending on the section). By comparison, the Bulldogs are $26 anywhere, with kid tickets only $16.

Marlies seem to advertise a lot of special deals though in the Toronto newspapers that are sold all over southern Ontario. Those advertised special might be were he's getting the idea that the Marlies prices are cheaper.

Of course, what they don't tell you is that these specials are only on a limited number of seats.

Rumblick 11-19-2010 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue'sClues (Post 29030038)
yes... but that team, whatever that team is, is still playing the same schedule out of the same building, right?

Never said they weren't. I'm just using them as an example to show that AHL by-laws can be "adjusted" as any owner sees fit. Andrews is a decent sort, but he's a figurehead, nothing more. The AHL is a league run by the owners, and they can do pretty much what they want. if the owners of the Bulldogs were to find another arena to play in and really wanted to move mid-season, they could probably do it.

CHRDANHUTCH 11-19-2010 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumblick (Post 29043571)
Never said they weren't. I'm just using them as an example to show that AHL by-laws can be "adjusted" as any owner sees fit. Andrews is a decent sort, but he's a figurehead, nothing more. The AHL is a league run by the owners, and they can do pretty much what they want. if the owners of the Bulldogs were to find another arena to play in and really wanted to move mid-season, they could probably do it.

COULD, but WON'T

HOW convienent you forget the Toronto to Edmonton move in August of 2004 AFTER the schedule came out, Rumblick, THE ONLY THING THAT SAVED The Oilers was the lockout, and isn't that the same franchise we've been after until Prodigal bought the rights to reestablish it in OKC..... Remember what the League position and how they worded it.... if the League wanted to, it could've seized that franchise for that offense, and we'd still be at 29 franchises, not 30, a goal the league, pushed by us fans, told the league to accomplish.:shakehead

Rumblick 11-19-2010 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH (Post 29044785)
COULD, but WON'T

HOW convienent you forget the Toronto to Edmonton move in August of 2004 AFTER the schedule came out, Rumblick, THE ONLY THING THAT SAVED The Oilers was the lockout, and isn't that the same franchise we've been after until Prodigal bought the rights to reestablish it in OKC..... Remember what the League position and how they worded it.... if the League wanted to, it could've seized that franchise for that offense, and we'd still be at 29 franchises, not 30, a goal the league, pushed by us fans, told the league to accomplish.:shakehead

Wow - the only part of that I even came close to understanding was the :shakehead .


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