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braino 11-20-2010 03:08 AM

Colin Wilson question & my concerns
 
I am just wondering why Wilson has been getting close to 11/mins per game only? You look at other organizations that play their studs alot right away (Stastny, Toews) became good right away. Stamkos by yr 2, Kopitar, Duchene thrown in and stars...

My concern is Trotz will do the same crap as he did with Legwand. Bring him up as a 3rd liner.... In my opinion these young guys that are given responsibility sooner as a go to guy turn out better. Legwand is a gr8 example of how he just got used to being a 2nd line PP guy.

I am very concerned about Wilson and his upside offensively if he cannot even beat out O'Reilly & even Lombardi when healthy. Thoughts or why is he not getting prime time ice?????

goalscorer 11-20-2010 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braino (Post 29064170)
I am just wondering why Wilson has been getting close to 11/mins per game only? You look at other organizations that play their studs alot right away (Stastny, Toews) became good right away. Stamkos by yr 2, Kopitar, Duchene thrown in and stars...

My concern is Trotz will do the same crap as he did with Legwand. Bring him up as a 3rd liner.... In my opinion these young guys that are given responsibility sooner as a go to guy turn out better. Legwand is a gr8 example of how he just got used to being a 2nd line PP guy.

I am very concerned about Wilson and his upside offensively if he cannot even beat out O'Reilly & even Lombardi when healthy. Thoughts or why is he not getting prime time ice?????

I'll take a stab at this one.

He plays in Totz's defense first and only system. He is weak at protecting the puck anywhere but along the boards. He rarely shoots when a shot is the best option. He's not a great skater despite being solid on his skates. He has no physical presence even with a man's body.

I would say that covers it for the most part. I'm sure some will have other thoughts though. I've been dissapointed in his play for the most part too. But in all fairness, Cal beat him out of his spot and deserves to stay there. Legwand is gonna get the d-line minutes. Goc is looking strong and frankly he should get twice the time Colin gets. He's stuck IMO unless he gets moved to wing full time or starts playing out of his mind.

OpenWheel 11-20-2010 06:44 AM

The numbers for the team when Wilson is on the ice are pretty good. He still has a plus three to hang his hat on.

But there are guys playing better ahead of him. He played some center last game after Legwand was hurt and did ok, even though his line when with Smithson and Kostytsyn didn't do very well overall. Wilson was 4-2 on faceoffs. He's under 50% so far, but I think he's going to be a good faceoff man. Wilson was credited with two hits in the Montreal game. I almost fainted, as he rarely hits anyone. If he begins laying more hits he'll have a better chance to play on better lines.

I'm not disappointed in Wilson. I think he's doing ok, but has a ways to go. It is surprising to me he loses the puck a bit often when trying to carry it up, as he's good at controlling it along the boards, and I would have thought the nice stick work he sometimes shows would translate better to open ice. His skating is pretty good, I disagree with those who say it isn't. I have heard the last few off-seasons of him talking about working hard on it with power skating drills and that he saw a need to improve his skating. He'll never be the shiftiest guy, but he skates well and can accelerate nicely for his size.

I think he should play more. As I said, statistically he's doing ok despite not scoring much. And I thought Trotz liked results... Last game Wilson made two really nice passes that I saw, where the guy he threw it to fumbled it and killed the play. He's a good passer. Should shoot more though, he has that solid snap shot and decent wrister. He rarely even gets off a shot on the powerplay. And I wish he'd be more physical, as I've seen some hits he layed in previous years demolish the other guy. Something like that could help out, as our team has played a bit soft. Apparently the around the room talk they had before Montreal had an affect as everybody was hitting. Wilson was credited with two hits, after being credited with just one hit all season.

Fortheloveofthegame 11-20-2010 07:58 AM

A few thoughts:
Start of season - LW Lombardi - Goc ( the both get injured)
Moved to LW Goc - ( he gets injured )
Moved to Dumont - Center - Erat
Moved to LW - Legwand - Ward (two games)
Moved to LW - Smithson - Kostytsin
Now with Legwand injury, may be moved back to center for tonights game

My point is, although I do not think he is playing to his full potential, he has been moved around from lines due to injury and other dynamics. Nice that he is versatile but hard to get any flow or familiarity with line-mates.
I agree he needs to shoot more, he has a great, quick snap shot....needs to use it more.
Don't forget, it took O'Reilly 3 years to get to the point where he is now.

barrytrotzsneck 11-20-2010 09:03 AM

I think that he's being uncharacteristically rushed at this point. If he's not contributing offensively (and despite low icetime, he's played with both Dumont and Kostitsyn, so it's not like he's playing with unskilled players), then he's not contributing period. I think he'd be better served in Milwaukee finding his consistency and confidence again, while Spaling -- who can at least play the PK -- takes his spot in Nashville. Just my two cents.

OpenWheel 11-20-2010 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck (Post 29065339)
I think that he's being uncharacteristically rushed at this point. If he's not contributing offensively (and despite low icetime, he's played with both Dumont and Kostitsyn, so it's not like he's playing with unskilled players), then he's not contributing period.

And when he has played with Dumont he has contributed.

Kostitsyn? Come on. With Smithson or Tootoo? There you go, the linemates with which you must put up or shut up - in scoring...

I think he plays well when he's out there. Why is it ok for other guys to contribute by having two-way roles, yet when the team is plus with Wilson on the ice somehow he needs to go? Just what is it he's not doing well that you think will improve with "confidence" from another stint in the AHL? Our team would be weaker without him in my view and I'm not willing to see them sacrifice some of this year for some nebulous future gains.

Trotz sees enough use he gives him some pp time and ten minutes or so of even strength. Sure he's in a slump in scoring, but every player has some of those streaks every year. Fact is our top lines have decent players. They aren't chumps or something. Eventually he'll beat someone out for a higher spot. As it is we still need someone good to play the minutes he does play, and he fits the bill. (I think the Legwand line would be better with Wilson over Ward, but Trotz thinks otherwise.)

I hope he gets to play center tonight and gets more time. He's due.

Fortheloveofthegame 11-20-2010 09:51 AM

Sometimes everything goes your way. You cash in on 2nd assists.......Erat I beleive has 4 of those, pucks bounce in off your skate. All of Wilson's assists have been 1st assists and he needs to shoot more to get goals but it just seems he is not getting many bounces go his way. Once they do, he will get more conifdent, I would think and the "slump" will end. Just my two cents

dulzhok 11-20-2010 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braino (Post 29064170)
I am just wondering why Wilson has been getting close to 11/mins per game only? You look at other organizations that play their studs alot right away (Stastny, Toews) became good right away. Stamkos by yr 2, Kopitar, Duchene thrown in and stars...

My concern is Trotz will do the same crap as he did with Legwand. Bring him up as a 3rd liner.... In my opinion these young guys that are given responsibility sooner as a go to guy turn out better. Legwand is a gr8 example of how he just got used to being a 2nd line PP guy.

I am very concerned about Wilson and his upside offensively if he cannot even beat out O'Reilly & even Lombardi when healthy. Thoughts or why is he not getting prime time ice?????

Two things-- you are comparing Wilson to Stamkos, Kopitar, and Toewes. He simply doesn't have that talent, and you probably need to reset expectations.

In terms of "My concern is Trotz will do the same crap as he did with Legwand. Bring him up as a 3rd liner"... Legwand was on our first line, pretty much right away, with Ronning and Kjellberg.

In terms of other guys with offensive potential-- Hartnell was brought up slowly. Arkhipov was instantly put in a 2nd line position (for better or worse). Radulov was getting at least 2nd line time. Hornqvist was getting 1st line time in his 2nd year.

Trotz's philosophy is as you prove yourself, you get more icetime. See Hornqvist. See O'rliey.

Fortheloveofthegame 11-20-2010 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulzhok (Post 29066619)
Two things-- you are comparing Wilson to Stamkos, Kopitar, and Toewes. He simply doesn't have that talent, and you probably need to reset expectations.

In terms of "My concern is Trotz will do the same crap as he did with Legwand. Bring him up as a 3rd liner"... Legwand was on our first line, pretty much right away, with Ronning and Kjellberg.

In terms of other guys with offensive potential-- Hartnell was brought up slowly. Arkhipov was instantly put in a 2nd line position (for better or worse). Radulov was getting at least 2nd line time. Hornqvist was getting 1st line time in his 2nd year.

Trotz's philosophy is as you prove yourself, you get more icetime. See Hornqvist. See O'rliey.

Of all the times O'Reilly was up last year he was given 2nd line duties. Not sure I remember him on 3rd or 4th ever. Who knows why Trotz is not giving him more of a chance to succeed but the last games, come the 3rd period he gets more ice time so he must like something he is doing

PearJuice* 11-25-2010 08:52 PM

Colin Wilson?
 
What's your opinion of Wilson so far this year? How many points do you think he'll realistically get?

thrillhous 11-25-2010 08:58 PM

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=844002

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=829875

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=823076

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=776133

Mod: deleted.

Stranger 11-26-2010 03:34 PM

Wilson is a bust imo.

Fortheloveofthegame 11-26-2010 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 29188461)
Wilson is a bust imo.

Not sure if that is sarcastic? Did you watch the game? There were FEW bright lights, but Wilson played a solid "power forward" game. Not sure how many hits he would get credit for but best game in a long time.
Kostitsyn had a tough game defensively, but at least he bring some creative offense. This team is so boring to watch because there are so few "skilled, creative" players.
What is it? Does the "Trotz" system just suck all the offensive, free wheeling style out of the players?
Not familiar with what Legwand brought to the table when he first was drafted, but I am guessing ( at 7th overall), he had a ton of offensive skills, as well as solid defensive game? Can someone who is familiar with "Leggy" when he first came here tell me?

Viqsi 11-26-2010 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 29188461)
Wilson is a bust imo.

I remember we had similar folks saying the same of Brassard most of last year, and into the start of this year. Go figure, eh?

triggrman 11-27-2010 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue (Post 29188728)
Not sure if that is sarcastic? Did you watch the game? There were FEW bright lights, but Wilson played a solid "power forward" game. Not sure how many hits he would get credit for but best game in a long time.
Kostitsyn had a tough game defensively, but at least he bring some creative offense. This team is so boring to watch because there are so few "skilled, creative" players.
What is it? Does the "Trotz" system just suck all the offensive, free wheeling style out of the players?
Not familiar with what Legwand brought to the table when he first was drafted, but I am guessing ( at 7th overall), he had a ton of offensive skills, as well as solid defensive game? Can someone who is familiar with "Leggy" when he first came here tell me?

Legwand's problems were constancy offensively, skated great but didn't use his speed to his advantage enough, had good size but didn't use it enough, had a good shot but didn't get it off in stride.

That was even before Trotz had coached him.

Also, he was the 2nd overall pick not the 7th.

dulzhok 11-27-2010 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 29188461)
Wilson is a bust imo.

I think Wilson will be fine.

People just have too high offensive hopes for him. Remember, he was the "safe" pick in the draft (surprise). He then had a big year offensively in his 2nd college year, but so did Darren Haydar.

I think he has sligthly better offensive abiities than say, Scott Hartnell. But, I don't think he can be a consistent top 30 scorer.

Soundgarden 11-27-2010 10:45 AM

I think Wilson has already shown flashes of his great hockey I.Q. he just needs to play the body a little more.

Kloparren 11-27-2010 04:22 PM

Out of interest, who would you Nashville fans take (in the long run), Wilson or C O'Reilly? I like watching Wilson, he's the type of player that can be noticeable and I'd assume his ceiling is higher than O'Reilly.

But O'Reilly (although I haven't noticed his actual play much in the Nsh games I've seen) seems to be putting up points this year and is getting lots of ice-time.

Soundgarden 11-27-2010 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nettles (Post 29209141)
Out of interest, who would you Nashville fans take (in the long run), Wilson or C O'Reilly? I like watching Wilson, he's the type of player that can be noticeable and I'd assume his ceiling is higher than O'Reilly.

But O'Reilly (although I haven't noticed his actual play much in the Nsh games I've seen) seems to be putting up points this year and is getting lots of ice-time.

That's a hard one. I don't think Wilson has found his game yet but when he does I would choose him, but you can't argue with numbers and Cal O has them. So for the future I'd choose Wilson but the present O'Reilly.

I Will Son 11-27-2010 04:39 PM

It took O'reilly a while to find his game here in the NHL, and it may take Wilson some time to but Wilson is 3 years younger than Cal. And he age may be a reason Trotz doesnt trust him as much. I take Wilson in the long run, bigger body and will be a more effective force in the long haul.

Fortheloveofthegame 11-27-2010 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundgarden (Post 29209185)
That's a hard one. I don't think Wilson has found his game yet but when he does I would choose him, but you can't argue with numbers and Cal O has them. So for the future I'd choose Wilson but the present O'Reilly.

O'Reilly has had double the ice time and a consistent line to play on. Not taking anything away from O'Reilly but I think Wilson has a much higher potential.
I actually thought, back in October, when they were on the PP together ( O'Reilly, not on the point like he is now ), had great chemistry together....

barrytrotzsneck 11-29-2010 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue (Post 29209928)
O'Reilly has had double the ice time and a consistent line to play on. Not taking anything away from O'Reilly but I think Wilson has a much higher potential.
I actually thought, back in October, when they were on the PP together ( O'Reilly, not on the point like he is now ), had great chemistry together....

while Wilson might have more raw ability, the effort and attention to detail is the difference right now. Whereas O'Reilly never gives up on a play, whether in the offensive or defensive zone, Wilson can be typically seen floating around the outside, hoping for a golden opportunity to come to him. We're quick to criticize SK for this,but CW is more guilty of it than anyone at this point, IMO.

Mike Santorelli has 6 goals. Ryan Jones has 5. Wouldn't have thought these two would be handily outscoring Colin at this point.

Fortheloveofthegame 11-29-2010 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck (Post 29240780)
while Wilson might have more raw ability, the effort and attention to detail is the difference right now. Whereas O'Reilly never gives up on a play, whether in the offensive or defensive zone, Wilson can be typically seen floating around the outside, hoping for a golden opportunity to come to him. We're quick to criticize SK for this,but CW is more guilty of it than anyone at this point, IMO.

Mike Santorelli has 6 goals. Ryan Jones has 5. Wouldn't have thought these two would be handily outscoring Colin at this point.

Why is it that it seems when players move to from this team, suddenly they have success offensively?
Is it the style of "defensive" play? Are they "stiffled" by the system? Other teams with young talented prospects seem to let them "free wheel" and use their talent more freely? ( other than Phoenix maybe)
This is why on a previous post I had asked about Legwand. He has turned into a great defensive player, but has he lost his offensive game in this system?

Roman Yoshi 11-29-2010 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck (Post 29240780)
while Wilson might have more raw ability, the effort and attention to detail is the difference right now. Whereas O'Reilly never gives up on a play, whether in the offensive or defensive zone, Wilson can be typically seen floating around the outside, hoping for a golden opportunity to come to him. We're quick to criticize SK for this,but CW is more guilty of it than anyone at this point, IMO.

Mike Santorelli has 6 goals. Ryan Jones has 5. Wouldn't have thought these two would be handily outscoring Colin at this point.

Peverly wasn't going to succeed here, same with Santo. Too many centers. Jones I am still salty about. I would rather have Jones than Belak.

On the subject of Wilson, look what happens when you put him on a line with Sergei and Goc, he scores a goal. Maybe good linemates=better results. Who would've thunk it.

Fortheloveofthegame 11-29-2010 12:20 PM

The Preds team struggles offensively. When the top point guy has only 5 more points than Wilson, with double the ice time, that does not say much
SK looks like he has a ton of talent, he may cost you defensively but give him more ice time, and the other offensive guys and at least the games might be more exciting to watch


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