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Cake or Death 11-22-2010 06:02 AM

Rozsival by the numbers
 
Rozsival is not elite, he's not flashy, and he doesn't give you that huge season. But he has been very good. A lot better than some seem to think, at least. To put things in perspective, here's how his combined numbers rank amongst all other active defensemen since he came to the NYR:

GP - 415 - 6th
Goals - 41 - 26th
Assists - 128 - 30th
Points - 169 - 30th
Plus/Minus - +37 - 22nd
PP Goals - 20 - 28th
SH Goals - 2 - 6th
Shot Pct - 7.3 - 14th
Minutes - 9524 - 12th
One of 28 d-men with four 30 (or more) point seasons

This is including an off year last season and these are still the numbers of a solid top pair guy. Rozsival's been good, he's been consistent, he plays a ton of time, and he rarely misses games.

JeffMangum 11-22-2010 06:04 AM

:handclap: Good work. I wholeheartedly agree. the guy is unrightfully bashed by Ranger fans, all around.

Of course, people will STILL argue that he sucks and should be traded.

DutchShamrock 11-22-2010 06:21 AM

That is the definition of mediocre. That's not a knock. Don't take offense. It's just a simple fact. He's not as bad as the haters say and he's not as good as the fans make him out to be.

With a 6 year sample size that factors in pure totals, you are including guys that retired in that span and guys that came into the league in that span. In other words, a bunch of guys that didn't play 6 seasons. I'd be interested in TOI, avg pts per season and shots per game,

Chris 84 11-22-2010 06:30 AM

He's been very good for the Rangers, one of my favourites since he joined us in 2005.

msv957 11-22-2010 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtremeHockeyFan (Post 29103682)
Rozsival is not elite, he's not flashy, and he doesn't give you that huge season. But he has been very good. A lot better than some seem to think, at least. To put things in perspective, here's how his combined numbers rank amongst all other active defensemen since he came to the NYR:

GP - 415 - 6th
Goals - 41 - 26th
Assists - 128 - 30th
Points - 169 - 30th
Plus/Minus - +37 - 22nd
PP Goals - 20 - 28th
SH Goals - 2 - 6th
Shot Pct - 7.3 - 14th
Minutes - 9524 - 12th
One of 28 d-men with four 30 (or more) point seasons

This is including an off year last season and these are still the numbers of a solid top pair guy. Rozsival's been good, he's been consistent, he plays a ton of time, and he rarely misses games.

Interesting... Thanks for the post. Good stuff.

Rozy is definately under appreciated by the fan base. He is a very solid NHL defenseman. No doubt. He can play anywhere on the top 2 pairings on every NHL team's defense.

Ola 11-22-2010 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchShamrock (Post 29103742)
That is the definition of mediocre. That's not a knock. Don't take offense. It's just a simple fact. He's not as bad as the haters say and he's not as good as the fans make him out to be.

With a 6 year sample size that factors in pure totals, you are including guys that retired in that span and guys that came into the league in that span. In other words, a bunch of guys that didn't play 6 seasons. I'd be interested in TOI, avg pts per season and shots per game,

I agree 100%, but the difference is that looking at our blue Id go around bowing and saying thank you for getting a mediocre top pairing D any day of the week.

Cake or Death 11-22-2010 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchShamrock (Post 29103742)
That is the definition of mediocre. That's not a knock. Don't take offense. It's just a simple fact. He's not as bad as the haters say and he's not as good as the fans make him out to be.

How do you deem that a fact? There are 200 defenseman in the league. How is Rozsival ranking 6th-30th in every area the definition of mediocre? Wouldn't mediocre be ranking about 100th across the board?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchShamrock (Post 29103742)
With a 6 year sample size that factors in pure totals, you are including guys that retired in that span and guys that came into the league in that span. In other words, a bunch of guys that didn't play 6 seasons.[/B] I'd be interested in TOI, avg pts per season and shots per game,

It's 5 seasons (I didn't use this season's partial numbers). And I looked at per game numbers. Guys that retired or joined the league didn't alter anything almost at all, even going by per game numbers. If you include guys that retired before last season or entered the league after 05-06, Rozsival is still 37th amongst defenseman in PPG. It's not like a slew of great defenseman didn't play the full 5 seasons. Of the guys that didn't play the full 5 season span, only Zubov, Boucher, Doughty and Yandle have more points per game. Whether you combine the seasons or do it on a per-game basis - and I've looked at both - the guy is a top pairing defensemen on most teams in the league.

Puckface NYR* 11-22-2010 08:44 AM

cue the Rozy haters.

Its sad we even need a thread like this to prove to people what an asset he has been since joining this team

eco's bones 11-22-2010 09:01 AM

His first three seasons with us have been better than the last two. I don't see him as a legit top pairing guy at all--not at all in the way you'd look at the best defensemen around the league. Just in our own division--Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Streit, Letang, Martin all better all around defensemen offensively and defensively. Michal is a good second pairing guy.


For us MDZ has some learning to do but he has the creativity and instincts to be a pwp qb and 1st pairing d-man given time. Staal is more like the stay mostly at home second guy on a first pair. To be honest the real revelation this year is how good Girardi has been playing--he's been the Rangers best defenseman--leads in time on ice avg. (24:34), leads in hits (47) blocked shots (65) shots on goal (35) and points though he passed the injured Roszival so take that one for what it's worth.

Bardof425* 11-22-2010 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtremeHockeyFan (Post 29103682)
Rozsival is not elite, he's not flashy, and he doesn't give you that huge season. But he has been very good. A lot better than some seem to think, at least. To put things in perspective, here's how his combined numbers rank amongst all other active defensemen since he came to the NYR:

GP - 415 - 6th
Goals - 41 - 26th
Assists - 128 - 30th
Points - 169 - 30th
Plus/Minus - +37 - 22nd
PP Goals - 20 - 28th
SH Goals - 2 - 6th
Shot Pct - 7.3 - 14th
Minutes - 9524 - 12th
One of 28 d-men with four 30 (or more) point seasons

This is including an off year last season and these are still the numbers of a solid top pair guy. Rozsival's been good, he's been consistent, he plays a ton of time, and he rarely misses games.

What has he done the last two years? That is what really matters to this team. Are you telling me Mike Modano is a first line player now? If you look at his career numbers he certainly is. However, the Red Wings (and the Stars) don't care what he used to do. He is absolutely not a first pair defensemen except on the worst teams in the league (if at all). And as a reminder he is our worst +/- guy so far this year. This year is what matters; not 2005.

Has he had a good career? Absolutely. Is he a guy we should be building around and looking towards for the future. No way. He is a place holder for the next group of D-men. Once the organization feels they are ready he will be moved or waived. I hope that comes soon.

Ola 11-22-2010 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eco's bones (Post 29104718)
His first three seasons with us have been better than the last two. I don't see him as a legit top pairing guy at all--not at all in the way you'd look at the best defensemen around the league. Just in our own division--Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Streit, Letang, Martin all better all around defensemen offensively and defensively. Michal is a good second pairing guy.

Maybe not so much this year, but put some of those names in a role simular to the ones Rozi have had here in NY for a long time and odds are -- IMHO -- that those names would collapse completely.

Like can you see Streit/Letang/Carle in this role:
Straka-Nyls-JJ
Malik-[XXXX]
???

Malik would be minus 75 instead of plus 50... Put a D like Phaneuf of today in that position, and he'd be overwhelmed tremendously.

Thats Rozi's strength really. Lets say you have a unit with four 15 y/o's and a void on the RD position, then you won't find 25 D's in this league who'd do a better job then Rozi. He often -- in the sense that if you take 20 plays, this applys on say 18 -- does a complete and throughout job. First makes the defensive play (and that will apply against most forwards in the East, no matter size or speed), then picks up the puck, then moves the puck so that he can get open, then passes the puck. A D like Phaneuf have never made a hit in his entire career and then picked up the puck and moved it. He hits, but unless he have a C or D partner who can pick up the puck -- you are in trouble.

Fitzy 11-22-2010 11:53 AM

Good stuff. Not to mention Rozy's blocked shots ( I suggest looking them up each year since the lockout.

DutchShamrock 11-22-2010 11:58 AM

If people don't want to hear the Rosvial 'haters', they shouldn't keep creating threads about Roszival. No one was talking about him negatively this season, so I don't really see why he needs defense. He is just one of those guys that is just better left alone. Put a microscope on him and you are certanly going to see flaws in his game. Just appreciate the fact that he is having a decent season and no one is complaining.

NYR Sting 11-22-2010 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtremeHockeyFan (Post 29103682)
Rozsival is not elite, he's not flashy, and he doesn't give you that huge season. But he has been very good. A lot better than some seem to think, at least. To put things in perspective, here's how his combined numbers rank amongst all other active defensemen since he came to the NYR:

GP - 415 - 6th
Goals - 41 - 26th
Assists - 128 - 30th
Points - 169 - 30th
Plus/Minus - +37 - 22nd
PP Goals - 20 - 28th
SH Goals - 2 - 6th
Shot Pct - 7.3 - 14th
Minutes - 9524 - 12th
One of 28 d-men with four 30 (or more) point seasons

This is including an off year last season and these are still the numbers of a solid top pair guy. Rozsival's been good, he's been consistent, he plays a ton of time, and he rarely misses games.

These numbers, especially the offensive ones, are all misleading.

Rozsival has scored 41 goals as a Ranger. 28 came when Jagr was on the team. 169 points as a Ranger. 108 came when Jagr was on the team. Of his 20 Power Play Goals, 16 were with Jagr on the team. Don't forget the inflated offensive numbers post-lockout, too. Of course his shot percentage is high, he refuses to shoot the puck even though his shot is easily his best offensive attribute.

He's not a creator on offense, he's a bystander. He's completely mediocre offensively. He's a detriment on the PP.

I don't hate the guy nor am I bashing him. Just trying to force people to face the facts. He's a really solid defender who plays a lot because of the team he's on and racks up, for the most part, circumstantial statistics. He's not a top pairing defenseman on any of the league's top teams.

Think about it this way? What players around the league are a good comparable for him in terms of output and style of play. I would go with someone like Filip Kuba. Again, not a guy who is a top-pairing defenseman on a very good team.

Miller Time NYR 11-22-2010 12:04 PM

Trade him! Cap hits too much and he could clear up some space and his nd his ****** numbers...... Oh wait nvm:sarcasm:

I guess it took some hard numbers to wake people up to how valuable rozi is to this team and how solid of a player he is.

John Torturella 11-22-2010 12:06 PM

He is definitely not a major problem on this team. He is relatively steady, and prone to making bad turnovers which is why he is not seen in the best light by many fans. He is a little bit overpaid, which doesn't help him. I like Rozsival, but I find myself almost convinced that this team could trade him and not suffer that much. He is probably trade-able, as his cap hit is not indicative of his real salary. I dont think they have missed him much in his absence.

Miller Time NYR 11-22-2010 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting36e (Post 29107252)
These numbers, especially the offensive ones, are all misleading.

Rozsival has scored 41 goals as a Ranger. 28 came when Jagr was on the team. 169 points as a Ranger. 108 came when Jagr was on the team. Of his 20 Power Play Goals, 16 were with Jagr on the team. Don't forget the inflated offensive numbers post-lockout, too. Of course his shot percentage is high, he refuses to shoot the puck even though his shot is easily his best offensive attribute.

He's not a creator on offense, he's a bystander. He's completely mediocre offensively. He's a detriment on the PP.

I don't hate the guy nor am I bashing him. Just trying to force people to face the facts. He's a really solid defender who plays a lot because of the team he's on and racks up, for the most part, circumstantial statistics. He's not a top pairing defenseman on any of the league's top teams.

How are the numbers miss leading because he played with jagr, I guess mike green's numbers are all miss leading because he plays with ovechkin and doughtys because of kopitar. That's just trying to make something out of nothing he played with one of the leagues greats and played well that's it it's not like jagr held his stick for him and helped him shoot the puck.

JimmyStart* 11-22-2010 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtremeHockeyFan (Post 29103682)
Rozsival is not elite, he's not flashy, and he doesn't give you that huge season. But he has been very good. A lot better than some seem to think, at least. To put things in perspective, here's how his combined numbers rank amongst all other active defensemen since he came to the NYR:

GP - 415 - 6th
Goals - 41 - 26th
Assists - 128 - 30th
Points - 169 - 30th
Plus/Minus - +37 - 22nd
PP Goals - 20 - 28th
SH Goals - 2 - 6th
Shot Pct - 7.3 - 14th
Minutes - 9524 - 12th
One of 28 d-men with four 30 (or more) point seasons

This is including an off year last season and these are still the numbers of a solid top pair guy. Rozsival's been good, he's been consistent, he plays a ton of time, and he rarely misses games.

Is this a comparison counting players who have played all of the years since he came here and is this out of 30 or whatever?

Saying he's 30th out of 40 and the last 10 are rookies and 1st year guys...

Be more interesting to see a year by year how he ranks.

NYR Sting 11-22-2010 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangerdanger20 (Post 29107387)
How are the numbers miss leading because he played with jagr, I guess mike green's numbers are all miss leading because he plays with ovechkin and doughtys because of kopitar. That's just trying to make something out of nothing he played with one of the leagues greats and played well that's it it's not like jagr held his stick for him and helped him shoot the puck.

The numbers are misleading because any visual evidence of Michal Rozsival's play, particularly during the Jagr years, easily lends credence to the belief that he does not create offense. Likewise, any visual observation of Mike Green and Drew Doughty makes it abundantly clear that both of them are more than capable of doing so on their own. If you can't see that for yourself, then I don't know what to tell you.

eco's bones 11-22-2010 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola (Post 29105156)
Maybe not so much this year, but put some of those names in a role simular to the ones Rozi have had here in NY for a long time and odds are -- IMHO -- that those names would collapse completely.

Like can you see Streit/Letang/Carle in this role:
Straka-Nyls-JJ
Malik-[XXXX]
???

Malik would be minus 75 instead of plus 50... Put a D like Phaneuf of today in that position, and he'd be overwhelmed tremendously.

Thats Rozi's strength really. Lets say you have a unit with four 15 y/o's and a void on the RD position, then you won't find 25 D's in this league who'd do a better job then Rozi. He often -- in the sense that if you take 20 plays, this applys on say 18 -- does a complete and throughout job. First makes the defensive play (and that will apply against most forwards in the East, no matter size or speed), then picks up the puck, then moves the puck so that he can get open, then passes the puck. A D like Phaneuf have never made a hit in his entire career and then picked up the puck and moved it. He hits, but unless he have a C or D partner who can pick up the puck -- you are in trouble.

The 5 man unit of Nylander, Jagr, Straka, Rozsival, Malik was unique no doubt about it. 4 Czechs and a Swede and all on the same wavelength. For the d-men in that unit that was more a product of chemistry with the forwards. And Nylander and Jagr especially could take a lot of pressure off the two blueliners because of their fantastic ability to rag the puck and their creativity in making plays. Straka's role shouldn't be understated either. That guy had some wheels and could backcheck with the best of them and that as well took pressure off the two blueliners. Not to get me wrong they all fit well together but it was the forwards who were the best players in that unit. It didn't hurt though that they always (or mostly) played together--sometimes maybe Rucinsky filling in.

The Rangers don't keep linemates and blueliners together like that now. So the chemistry Rozsival once had playing with Jagr etal. is no longer really a factor. Michal is getting older and does have some flaws to his game. Definitely not as good as Pronger and definitely doesn't have the mean streak or the physical game. Timonen also is steadier and stronger and walks the blueline on the pwp better. Streit is an amazing player on a pretty weak team--he's not gotten a lot of help but he still produces. Letang is a candidate to be a top 5 scoring defenseman who is also pretty good in his own end though it doesn't hurt to have Crosby and Malkin helping out either. Rozsival has never really had that killer's instinct as an offensive player. A little timid letting his shot go. Too predictable as a pwp qb. In his own end he's usually a steady player but not really a physical force. He's blocked a lot of shots this year (31 in 15 games) but so have Girardi (65 in 21 games) MDZ (38 in 21 games) and Eminger (34 in 19 games).

Bluenote13 11-22-2010 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola (Post 29105156)
Maybe not so much this year, but put some of those names in a role simular to the ones Rozi have had here in NY for a long time and odds are -- IMHO -- that those names would collapse completely.

Like can you see Streit/Letang/Carle in this role:
Straka-Nyls-JJ
Malik-[XXXX]
???

Malik would be minus 75 instead of plus 50... Put a D like Phaneuf of today in that position, and he'd be overwhelmed tremendously.

Thats Rozi's strength really. Lets say you have a unit with four 15 y/o's and a void on the RD position, then you won't find 25 D's in this league who'd do a better job then Rozi. He often -- in the sense that if you take 20 plays, this applys on say 18 -- does a complete and throughout job. First makes the defensive play (and that will apply against most forwards in the East, no matter size or speed), then picks up the puck, then moves the puck so that he can get open, then passes the puck. A D like Phaneuf have never made a hit in his entire career and then picked up the puck and moved it. He hits, but unless he have a C or D partner who can pick up the puck -- you are in trouble.

Great work, maybe too good, doubt the simple minds who don't understand the Rosy's of the Hockey world will get it.

Sting, Craig Rivet does the same job Rosy does(though a bit more North American;)) and he's played top minutes, I think that Filip Kuba comparison was incorrect.

NYR Sting 11-22-2010 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote13 (Post 29108858)
Great work, maybe too good, doubt the simple minds who don't understand the Rosy's of the Hockey world will get it.

Sting, Craig Rivet does the same job Rosy does(though a bit more North American;)) and he's played top minutes, I think that Filip Kuba comparison was incorrect.

I've always thought Rivet was terribly overrated, from his days with Montreal. His positioning is below average. He has a weak first pass. He's a third pairing guy who got overrated because of his intangibles like more than a few others before him.

I like Rozsival a lot more than Rivet. Just want to be clear on that. I like Rozsival. He's VERY frustrating, but I've liked him since he first broke into the league with the Penguins. The problem with him is that his entire career he leaves you wanting more. He's a bit of an underachiever. If he was a little higher in the IQ department, he'd be more of a difference maker.

I think Kuba is the same way. Kuba is a little bit better offensively, and a little bit worse defensively. In many ways, they play a similar game. Similar decision making, similar positional defense vs. physical defense tendencies.

Fitzy 11-22-2010 02:28 PM

Only problem I have had with Rozy is when he plays indecisive.

You can see two completely different players on the back end on two different nights entirely because of whether or not he is confident.

Stepan Razor 11-22-2010 02:33 PM

In 05-06 (and arguably 06-07 as well) Rozsival was one of the better one-on-one defensemen in the game. Renney frequently deployed him against opposing top units because he was very good at both tying up skilled forwards and turning those plays into transitions up-ice.

The problem is he no longer has the same lateral movement skills he did prior to the hip injury he suffered in 07-08. He has a tougher time accelerating and is no longer as strong along the boards as he was a few seasons back. He's still effective but not even close to being worth $5m a season.

vipernsx 11-22-2010 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Boyle (Post 29103688)
:handclap: Good work. I wholeheartedly agree. the guy is unrightfully bashed by Ranger fans, all around.

Of course, people will STILL argue that he sucks and should be traded.

He doesn't suck however, he should be traded to a real money first team. Considering his real salary is lower than his cap hit this year and next, he is well worth what he makes in real dollars this and next season. That said, the 5million cap hit he puts out could be better spent. If he were dealt during this deadline, before he was considered a rental, his value and return would be maximized.

He's the #1 paid defender on the team, yet he's the #4 defender at best. Trade him and maximize his return. Use the money on stuff we need. Eminger and Sauer have filled in for him since he's been out. Gilroy is the #6 guy. Vtank and McDonagh are chomping at the bit down in Hartford. The club is deep on D.


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