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vorky 11-27-2010 06:09 AM

World cup in junior hockey teams
 
I haven´t found a thread about this competition in HFBoards. So I have created it.

MHL, russian junior league including Dinamo Riga, Dinamo and Yunost Minsk, suggest to create World cup in junior hockey teams -champions of national junior leagues. IIHF should confirm it on 1st december in Zurich.
They suggest:

1. Omsk as a city where this tourney wil take place in august/september 2011.

2. 8 participants, champions of MHL, Memorial Cup (Canada), USA (I dont know which league), Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, Germany and Czech junior league. Of course, champions of this season.

3. Age limit is 21 years.

look
What do you think about this World cup?

RussianHockey96 11-27-2010 03:25 PM

I'm all for it, sounds really cool. I don't know what the Canadians and Americans will think of it though. I have a hard time seeing the memorial cup team go over there for this tourney.

SaskaToba 11-29-2010 01:22 PM

It would be a cool tournament but it will never happen... August/September is a time where a lot of these Mem Cup players or NHL prospects will be attending NHL camps, WJC camps or their own CHL camps.

A lot of players that win the Memorial Cup are not eligible to play the next year (too old, or not enough 20 year old spots)

vorky 11-29-2010 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gongshow67 (Post 29242752)
It would be a cool tournament but it will never happen... August/September is a time where a lot of these Mem Cup players or NHL prospects will be attending NHL camps, WJC camps or their own CHL camps.

A lot of players that win the Memorial Cup are not eligible to play the next year (too old, or not enough 20 year old spots)

My fault. Date of tourney should be 28 august to 4 september 2011. Of course, new players from Memorial Cup champion should play, not they who are too old.

We will see what IIHF will say in december....According Russians that format of tourney was orally agreed at Summit in Toronto...

zorz 11-29-2010 03:19 PM

Would be great to have NA teams at this tournament, but I would like them to make it happen with them or without them. If their participation is not possible, then they can replace them with another 2 european teams.

vorky 11-29-2010 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorz (Post 29244571)
Would be great to have NA teams at this tournament, but I would like them to make it happen with them or without them. If their participation is not possible, then they can replace them with another 2 european teams.

could be like you write... but the main idea is to bring best of best... from national champions.

Basic question is Will IIHF confirm this tourney in this format? With all this countries? As I know, idea of this championship was discussed at Summit in Toronto, and Canadians/Americans orally agreed

Interesting discussion can be found here

zorz 11-29-2010 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 29244691)
could be like you write... but the main idea is to bring best of best... from national champions.

Basic question is Will IIHF confirm this tourney in this format? With all this countries? As I know, idea of this championship was discussed at Summit in Toronto, and Canadians/Americans orally agreed

Interesting discussion can be found here

Thx ;)

vorky 12-01-2010 09:05 AM

According to this IIHF confirmed this World Cup and participants

saskhab 12-03-2010 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 29280773)
According to this IIHF confirmed this World Cup and participants

I was able to get some comments from the IIHF and Hockey Canada on this. That report from the MHL website is not true.

http://www.puckworlds.com/2010/12/2/...port-incorrect

Basically, it's still in the discussion stage. IIHF says it hasn't said it will participate, and Hockey Canada says that Russia has given them the proposal but no decision has been made.

vorky 12-03-2010 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saskhab (Post 29334580)
I was able to get some comments from the IIHF and Hockey Canada on this. That report from the MHL website is not true.

http://www.puckworlds.com/2010/12/2/...port-incorrect

Basically, it's still in the discussion stage. IIHF says it hasn't said it will participate, and Hockey Canada says that Russia has given them the proposal but no decision has been made.

so what decision was made? Decision about creating World Cup? and Omsk as first city where it will take place?

saskhab 12-03-2010 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 29335611)
so what decision was made? Decision about creating World Cup? and Omsk as first city where it will take place?

I can only speculate on how it got confused by the MHL. I know that Russia, led by the KHL and MHL, want this. They proposed it back at the World Hockey Summit in August, and there was some interest in it. The MHL originally thought to host it in St. Petersburg, but now it appears that Omsk is their choice. They've probably just awarded Omsk the event in the case that it happens. But that's the key: it hasn't happened... yet.

Canada has not committed. They haven't said no, just that there are discussions. The IIHF has not committed. They haven't said no, either. It could still happen, but we'll have to see. There was no official decision made on Dec. 1 from the IIHF, like the MHL article said.

I would assume that this is something that will be discussed in greater detail at the World Juniors, as all of the relevant parties will be represented there. I don't know if there will be an announcement during the tournament, but I suppose that would be possible. No side flatly denied they would participate, just that it's in the proposal/discussion stage.

To be honest, I don't know who would be holding this up, or if it has actually been held up. I just sought out the IIHF and Hockey Canada regarding the MHL report, and that's how they responded.

vorky 12-04-2010 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saskhab (Post 29343802)
I can only speculate on how it got confused by the MHL. I know that Russia, led by the KHL and MHL, want this. They proposed it back at the World Hockey Summit in August, and there was some interest in it. The MHL originally thought to host it in St. Petersburg, but now it appears that Omsk is their choice. They've probably just awarded Omsk the event in the case that it happens. But that's the key: it hasn't happened... yet.

Canada has not committed. They haven't said no, just that there are discussions. The IIHF has not committed. They haven't said no, either. It could still happen, but we'll have to see. There was no official decision made on Dec. 1 from the IIHF, like the MHL article said.

I would assume that this is something that will be discussed in greater detail at the World Juniors, as all of the relevant parties will be represented there. I don't know if there will be an announcement during the tournament, but I suppose that would be possible. No side flatly denied they would participate, just that it's in the proposal/discussion stage.

To be honest, I don't know who would be holding this up, or if it has actually been held up. I just sought out the IIHF and Hockey Canada regarding the MHL report, and that's how they responded.

thx, I hope that it will happen

vorky 12-04-2010 03:34 PM

Interview of Efimov (MHL)

Macman 12-05-2010 09:55 AM

I don't see the need for this. We already have the world juniors every year. Also, sending the Memorial Cup champion in August or September would be pointless. Their best players would be either too old or at NHL training camps.

Macman 12-05-2010 10:12 AM

I'm all for a junior world cup but make it a true championship. Hold it every four years with the best under 20 players competing in August before training camps open. Get the NHL and NCAA on side so that even those with NHL and NCAA teams can play. That would be sweet. The problem with the Russian proposal is the lack of a level playing field. The number of junior teams in each country varies greatly. Who would the U.S send? A USJHL team? Hardly fair to them.

Make it a true world cup and it would help grow the game worldwide.

vorky 12-05-2010 10:43 AM

Macman

so ok...
When do training camps start? Before september 4?

You wrote that players are too old.. so ok, What is a age limit in CHL? As I know, it is 20 years.. This world cup has a age limit at 21.

Yes, every junior team rebuilds the roster during summer, not only Memorial champion, but also champion of Sweden etc.

Idea is to send champion of best junior league of country. So Canada should send a Memorial champion, USA - champion of best junior league (I dont follow it, sorry), Sweden - champion of J20 SuperElit etc.

Why do you think that this World cup is not true?

Macman 12-05-2010 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 29372465)
Macman

so ok...
When do training camps start? Before september 4?

You wrote that players are too old.. so ok, What is a age limit in CHL? As I know, it is 20 years.. This world cup has a age limit at 21.

Yes, every junior team rebuilds the roster during summer, not only Memorial champion, but also champion of Sweden etc.

Idea is to send champion of best junior league of country. So Canada should send a Memorial champion, USA - champion of best junior league (I dont follow it, sorry), Sweden - champion of J20 SuperElit etc.

Why do you think that this World cup is not true?

Yeah, I think the CHL opens training camps in late August. Each CHL team is allowed to carry only three 20 years olds so having an age limit of 21 would hurt the CHL badly. The U.S. would really be at a disadvantage because its best players are either in the NCAA or the CHL. Who would they send? A junior A team? Wouldn't be fair to them. Memorial champion or not, the CHL would be left to send mediocre teams at that time of year because they can't use 21 year olds and their best players would be at NHL training camps and unavailable. The format as proposed is really flawed.

vorky 12-05-2010 11:45 AM

I asked about NHL training camp. Does it start in august? I dont think so.. so no reason CHL players to be at camp of NHL team.

Only in MHL can play 21years old. So not only CHL would have an disadventage. I dont think it is an disadventage. CHL team can use the same roster at Memorial Cup, with elder guys.

Is NCAA a junior league? If not, so they can not start at World Cup. It is only for champions of junior leagues.

saskhab 12-06-2010 05:53 PM

It's quite possible NHL draft picks would not participate in this, but at the request of their NHL teams, just like guys get held out of WJC camps. That doesn't mean the Memorial Cup team wouldn't find value in it: they are used to these kinds of things for training camp/preseason, which is when this tournament is for them.

Canada probably owes Russia something all things considered for the Super Series. That series has had it seems very little benefit to Russia as a WJC primer and the Canadian host cities make a lot of money off of it. I don't know how much Russia gets out of it financially, but when you see how many sponsors they have to put on their unis, it can't be a lot.

USA could also send a CHL team, or else a USHL team. A USHL team would do quite well in that tournament, the USHL is the fourth highest junior league for producing NHL draft picks, after the three CHL leagues.

And there's no reason why Canada or the USA couldn't hold such a tournament in a future year. It just happens that the first one is being considered for Omsk.

SPORTSMANIAC 12-06-2010 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 29373040)
I asked about NHL training camp. Does it start in august? I dont think so.. so no reason CHL players to be at camp of NHL team.

Only in MHL can play 21years old. So not only CHL would have an disadventage. I dont think it is an disadventage. CHL team can use the same roster at Memorial Cup, with elder guys.

Is NCAA a junior league? If not, so they can not start at World Cup. It is only for champions of junior leagues.

No it's not since there are players 22,23,24 in some cases 25 and 26.

If USA Hockey would participate I am assuming they would send the United States Hockey League (USHL) champion

EbencoyE 12-12-2010 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macman (Post 29372234)
I'm all for a junior world cup but make it a true championship. Hold it every four years with the best under 20 players competing in August before training camps open. Get the NHL and NCAA on side so that even those with NHL and NCAA teams can play. That would be sweet. The problem with the Russian proposal is the lack of a level playing field. The number of junior teams in each country varies greatly. Who would the U.S send? A USJHL team? Hardly fair to them.

Make it a true world cup and it would help grow the game worldwide.

USHL teams could easily compete with CHL and MHL teams. It would be all the other teams (Czech, Swedish, Finnish, German, etc) that would be at a disadvantage.

bruinsfan46 12-12-2010 11:27 PM

Is it just me or does the Memorial Cup Champions win this each and every year? In Europe so much of the top talent plays pro and I just don't see any individual under-20 junior team being able to compete with the top junior team in the CHL. And the USHL is always improving and a great league, but I'm not sold one individual USHL team would be able to take down the Memorial Cup Champion.

Shootmaster_44 12-12-2010 11:41 PM

Though I'd be interested in watching this, I doubt there would be major interest in North America for this.

My question regarding this would be how do the teams from North America get picked? If you send the Memorial Cup champion, generally that would be a Canadian team. However, it could happen that a US team wins it. Then you have the problem of trying to decide what team would represent Canada. Conversely, USA Hockey sending the USHL would be eliminating their best Junior hockey teams. The USHL Champion is not the same level as the Memorial Cup champion. Thus, since there is generally at least a few strong US based teams in the CHL, sending the USHL champion would be akin to sending the Royal Bank Cup (CJHL) Champion to represent Canada.

On that train of thought, I wonder if the MHL and Russia would accept Hockey Canada sending the Royal Bank Cup Champion instead? If Hockey Canada is willing to foot the bill for the CJHL to go, I can't see the Humboldt Broncos or Vernon Vipers refusing to go. Their teams would largely be at full strength as there are fewer top NHL prospects that are drafted from the CJHL. It might not hold the cache of the Memorial Cup champion, but at least this way there would be a Canadian representative at it. Though I do wonder whether sending the Royal Bank Cup champion would stack up against the MHL, Superelit etc. champions. They would easily stack up with the USHL champion, but otherwise I'm not entirely sure.

Torts 12-13-2010 02:13 PM

3 champions of CHL - WHL, OHL, QMJHL
U20 champs from european leagues -SM Liga, Elisterien, KHL
Champions from top college leagues in USA - Hockey East, WCHA, ECAC

vorky 02-02-2011 12:53 PM

According to Antonov (director MHL for development) team of USHL will compete at this tourney. According to Antonov, commisioner of USHL (Skip Prince) comfirmed it to Efimov (director of MHL) at their meeting in january.

Antonov´s speech about it here (Программа «ХЕТ-ТРИК» 8.01.2011, time 17:40)

Do you have any info?


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