HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Pittsburgh Penguins (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   Anyone see this on nhl.com? Hart Trophy watch (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=846772)

Bluefan75 11-27-2010 05:49 PM

Anyone see this on nhl.com? Hart Trophy watch
 
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=544385

Now this was before Crosby's hat trick today, but while I don't begrudge Stamkos the success he's had so far, but reading this and another article I saw where a guy said Stamkos doesn't have the supporting cast of the other contenders, it seems like last year's "let's vote for someone who isn't Crosby or Ovechkin" has carried over quite well.

Like I've said many times, unlike any other player, Crosby isn't evaluated against the rest of the league when it comes to awards, he's evaluated against the expectations of him.

Sidney the Kidney 11-27-2010 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefan75 (Post 29210363)
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=544385

Now this was before Crosby's hat trick today, but while I don't begrudge Stamkos the success he's had so far, but reading this and another article I saw where a guy said Stamkos doesn't have the supporting cast of the other contenders, it seems like last year's "let's vote for someone who isn't Crosby or Ovechkin" has carried over quite well.

Like I've said many times, unlike any other player, Crosby isn't evaluated against the rest of the league when it comes to awards, he's evaluated against the expectations of him.

I kind of feel the same way. It's like, the only way Crosby wins an award now is if he's miles better than his competition. If he's just slightly better, then the nod goes to the "underdog" or surprise.

I still think last year was the perfect example of this. For all intents and purposes, Crosby was the definition of what the Hart trophy should be: Most Valuable Player, not necessarily the highest scoring or most outstanding. But since Sedin came out of nowhere to put up a monster season, he was the "underdog" choice (though I'm still puzzled how Ovechkin finished second in voting ahead of Sid).

This is why I pretty much already know Stamkos is winning the Hart this year. Even if Sid keeps slightly ahead of him in points, so long as Stamkos keeps the gap within less than 10 points, he'll take it.

Sid's basically gotta dominate the scoring race by the same margin that Wayne/Mario did in order for him to win another trophy again. As frustrating as that is, I've pretty much come to accept it.

Bluefan75 11-27-2010 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney (Post 29210441)
I kind of feel the same way. It's like, the only way Crosby wins an award now is if he's miles better than his competition. If he's just slightly better, then the nod goes to the "underdog" or surprise.

I still think last year was the perfect example of this. For all intents and purposes, Crosby was the definition of what the Hart trophy should be: Most Valuable Player, not necessarily the highest scoring or most outstanding. But since Sedin came out of nowhere to put up a monster season, he was the "underdog" choice (though I'm still puzzled how Ovechkin finished second in voting ahead of Sid).

This is why I pretty much already know Stamkos is winning the Hart this year. Even if Sid keeps slightly ahead of him in points, so long as Stamkos keeps the gap within less than 10 points, he'll take it.

Sid's basically gotta dominate the scoring race by the same margin that Wayne/Mario did in order for him to win another trophy again. As frustrating as that is, I've pretty much come to accept it.

I know Crosby won't give two craps about this, but the real shame of it is that 50 years from now, when the guys in the HoH forum on this site(many of whom are quite knowledgeable) discuss players from the past, their awards totals and finishes in the voting will be one of the key criteria, yet because he was only better, and not leaps and bounds better, he gets screwed.

While it will be quite difficult, hopefully he can push 2000 points when it's all said and done, and make the award question far less important.

LeTANGled58 11-27-2010 06:03 PM

Yeah Sid is having another MVP type season, but its expected of him by everyone. he is on the top of his game and looks like he can win the scoring race again, but all people will see is stamkos's points(which are impressive a deserve the praise) and overlook his linemate is fifth in the league in scoring.

SEALBound 11-27-2010 06:12 PM

If the season ended today...and AO was on the ballot...I'd quit watching hockey for the rest of my life...but sadly...he'd probably win despite clearly not being the most valuable player.

The Hart is bullshot in my opinion because its picked by a group of sports writers that have a huge man crush on AO.

Stamkos is doing awesome...but in only one area of the game. Sid has been playing consistant and dominant in all regions of the ice. He is the clear cut MVP of the league up to now.

EdwardBlake 11-27-2010 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEALBound (Post 29210715)
If the season ended today...and AO was on the ballot...I'd quit watching hockey for the rest of my life...but sadly...he'd probably win despite clearly not being the most valuable player.

The Hart is bullshot in my opinion because its picked by a group of sports writers that have a huge man crush on AO.

Stamkos is doing awesome...but in only one area of the game. Sid has been playing consistant and dominant in all regions of the ice. He is the clear cut MVP of the league up to now.

Yep. I put FAR more value in the Art Ross or even the Selke than I do the Hart. I put the Norris above it also, but Crosby cant ever win that. Unless he does a reverse Big Buff for a season. :laugh: jk

Now do not get me wrong, I hope he wins the Hart. But I would be far more excited if he won the Art Ross. And *cough cough* the Conn Smythe. :sarcasm:

TravisUlrich 11-27-2010 11:29 PM

The Hart Trophy is always about momentum. At the moment that article was written, Stamkos was leading in points and was still on a goal per game pace. By his 30th game, "50 in 50" won't even be a consideration and if Crosby is merely leading the scoring race, the talk will shift to him and how he's having his best season ever.

Jaded-Fan 11-27-2010 11:42 PM

Crosby has gotten screwed in this a few years in a row now. It would not surprise me at all to see him screwed again this year no matter what he does.

SidGenoMario 11-27-2010 11:52 PM

Crosby won't win another Hart unless a miracle happens (Getting a legit winger or Ovechkin/Stamkos becoming pro golfers).

SCUDeriMISSILE 11-27-2010 11:53 PM

Just reading the ESPN recap and noticed this in the notes:
Quote:

Crosby's empty-net goal was only his fifth in six seasons. Lemieux had 33 such goals.
I'm surprised Sid has that few. That doesn't seem right to me.

SidGenoMario 11-27-2010 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane (Post 29219000)
I'm surprised Sid has that few. That doesn't seem right to me.

Well it's certainly not for a lack of effort. :)

Biz Nasty 11-28-2010 01:28 PM

Best part about it...Gleefully engaging in Stamkos or Crosby debate rather than Ovechkin or Crosby.

Mario_is_BACK!! 11-28-2010 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney (Post 29210441)
(though I'm still puzzled how Ovechkin finished second in voting ahead of Sid).

Check out the voting from last year:

2009-2010 Hart Trophy Voting

#PlayerTeamPTS1st2nd3rd4th5th
1Sedin HenrikVAN894463427194
2Ovechkin AlexWAS8344035222213
3Crosby SidneyPIT729203538297
4Miller RyanBUF5051322242720
5Bryzgalov IlyaPHO354136172231
6Stamkos StevenTB2800239
7Kane PatrickCHI1701024
8Brodeur MartinNJ1600206
9Anderson CraigCOL1010000
10Marleau PatrickSJ1000031

You had writers in Philly and Washington not vote for Sid at all or intentionally leave him out of the top two so he wouldn't come close to influencing the overall vote.

wtbipyo 11-28-2010 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane (Post 29219000)
Just reading the ESPN recap and noticed this in the notes:

I'm surprised Sid has that few. That doesn't seem right to me.

I found this as I was looking for a comparison of empty net goals for AO and SS. Very interesting...

http://www.penguinpoop.com/2010/empt...-crosby-sedin/

SidGenoMario 11-28-2010 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! (Post 29225719)
You had writers in Philly and Washington not vote for Sid at all or intentionally leave him out of the top two so he wouldn't come close to influencing the overall vote.

It does seem like Ovie had 4 more votes in total than Sid, or somewhere around there. How many voters were there in total?

Mario_is_BACK!! 11-28-2010 02:23 PM

Most members of the media are eligible to vote. I don't think there's really a set amount of like 250 or something like that. I'll do some research for you though.

FDBluth 11-28-2010 02:28 PM

I think if that article were written today, Sid would be first. At least he better be.

Stamkos also seems to be cooling down a bit. "Only" 2 goals and 6 points in his last 5 games (compared to Sid's 5 goals and 11 points in his last 5).

Jaded-Fan 11-28-2010 03:56 PM

It was obvious the past few years that Sid has done the most with the least help, compared to those who won it, and was by far the most valuable for his team. And he got the shaft each year but the one he won it. Not that there are not other deserving candidates each year. But the fact that he seems to be always the one coming up short each year. Which is why I am saying he will be screwed again this year and in coming years even if he had the most goals and points by a dozen each.

SidGenoMario 11-28-2010 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan (Post 29228507)
It was obvious the past few years that Sid has done the most with the least help, compared to those who won it, and was by far the most valuable for his team. And he got the shaft each year but the one he won it. Which is why I am saying he will be screwed again this year and in coming years even if he had the most goals and points by a dozen each.

Not the last few years, 08-09 should have been either Ovie or Geno, but I agree.

Killahpunk 11-28-2010 04:05 PM

It's too early in the season to be even concerned with Trophy's.

Shrimper 11-28-2010 04:18 PM

Crosby is always going to be up their at the end of the season, I wouldn't bet against him not dropping in form at some point, everyone falters at some point. I reckon he'll win it, although some will claim it's a conspiracy.

Sidney the Kidney 11-28-2010 04:27 PM

I'd feel more confident in Crosby winning more Hart trophies if it was voted on by league GMs or something, as opposed to the various writers. GMs will recognize the "little things" that Crosby does that a lot of these writers don't have a clue about. Some of them seem to see "OOohhh Youtube goals!" and vote in that fashion.

SidGenoMario 11-28-2010 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney (Post 29229157)
I'd feel more confident in Crosby winning more Hart trophies if it was voted on by league GMs or something, as opposed to the various writers. GMs will recognize the "little things" that Crosby does that a lot of these writers don't have a clue about. Some of them seem to see "OOohhh Youtube goals!" and vote in that fashion.

Exactly. Like the Sabres game when the commentators didn't "get it" despite the fact that Crosby was tearing it up defensively.

Bluefan75 11-28-2010 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney (Post 29229157)
I'd feel more confident in Crosby winning more Hart trophies if it was voted on by league GMs or something, as opposed to the various writers. GMs will recognize the "little things" that Crosby does that a lot of these writers don't have a clue about. Some of them seem to see "OOohhh Youtube goals!" and vote in that fashion.

I wouldn't be so sure. Go back to 07-08, around mid-season. TSN polled the GMs as to who the MVP would be if they had a vote up to that point. Lecavalier was playing quite well that season, so he had something like 17 of 30 votes. 8 players in total received a vote. Crosby was not one of those eight players, despite being tied with Lecavalier for the scoring lead at that point.

Even the GMs can be off.

MeowLeafs 11-28-2010 08:08 PM

So GM's are wrong, and hockey writers are wrong. I guess that leaves HF boards :)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:55 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.