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Hockey FAN8888 12-05-2010 10:03 AM

Ryan Jones
 
I have always been a pretty big Nashville fan and have always considered them my second team. Im not coming here to stir things up or troll lol.

I was just wondering what managements reason was for waving Jones. Was anything said? He is quietly putting up a good season in Edmonton. He has 6 goals and that would be tied for second on this team. He is only averaging about 10 minutes a game so he has managed it in minimal ice time. I understand that some players just don't fit with certain teams and need a change of scenery but this guy gives it 110% every shift and plays with so much passion.

I was just wondering if someone could shed some light on the situation.

Thanks.

Legionnaire11 12-05-2010 10:17 AM

Many of us wanted Jones to be given more of a chance here.

RollingPredFan 12-05-2010 10:45 AM

It's a disturbing trend seeing Peverley, Jones and Santorelli doing well with other teams, especially since we overpay many of our forwards for the production we get...

BigFatCat999 12-05-2010 10:52 AM

And look at the collective record of those teams.

Edmonton: Sucks
Florida: Sucks
Atlanta: #8 spot in the east

They are stars on teams not doing well. They have the Joel Ward corollary. They are stars on meh teams but as the talent level of the team goes up, their star status will die.

101st_fan 12-05-2010 10:53 AM

Jones put up decent goal per game and even better goal per TOI stats while in Nashville, but always found himself on the outside looking in while here. I try not to look at the advanced stats from his years here because it just upsets me again that we lost him on waivers.

barrytrotzsneck 12-05-2010 11:26 AM

he was making a million dollars, was given chances that he couldn't find consistency in, and there really wasn't a true "fit" for him. It came down to being an expensive square peg. i wish we could have gotten something for him, especially given that the Budish pick is starting to look like a bust, which essentially means we got nothing for Zidlicky, but that's life.

101st_fan 12-05-2010 11:54 AM

Jones didn't score pretty, but, he got power play goals with limited time on the PP. He didn't do much at ES while here.

I wouldn't call Budish a bust yet ... injury prone, yes .. but performs when he's playing. Now if we could just keep him on the ice on off of football fields or mopeds.

predfan24 12-05-2010 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck (Post 29373585)
he was making a million dollars, was given chances that he couldn't find consistency in, and there really wasn't a true "fit" for him. It came down to being an expensive square peg. i wish we could have gotten something for him, especially given that the Budish pick is starting to look like a bust, which essentially means we got nothing for Zidlicky, but that's life.

Pretty much this. He wasn't good enough to break into the scoring lines like the coaching staff wanted and he would not be an ideal 4th liner. He was also expensive to to only be getting 10 minutes a game. Personally I don't miss him.

Out of him, Santorelli and Pevs the only one I feel we messed up on was clearly Peverly.

token grinder 12-05-2010 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollingPredFan (Post 29373044)
It's a disturbing trend seeing Peverley, Jones and Santorelli doing well with other teams, especially since we overpay many of our forwards for the production we get...

you want to know why those thre guys are succeeding? look at the system. all three of their respective teams are not defensive oriented systems. all three of those guys are softer than marshmellows, and couldn't win a board battle to save their life. no grit, not toughness, no real drive to do the ugly things that a good defensive system requires. so if they go to a system that they can play more of an open game, yeah, they are gonna score and put up some numbers. but if those guys are leading your team, you suck

glenngineer 12-05-2010 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by token grinder (Post 29375400)
you want to know why those thre guys are succeeding? look at the system. all three of their respective teams are not defensive oriented systems. all three of those guys are softer than marshmellows, and couldn't win a board battle to save their life. no grit, not toughness, no real drive to do the ugly things that a good defensive system requires. so if they go to a system that they can play more of an open game, yeah, they are gonna score and put up some numbers. but if those guys are leading your team, you suck

Weren't you and a few others saying the same thing about O'Reilly before the season started?

Hate to say it but we have a team of marshmellows as you put it. Who do we have that can go to the boards on a consistent basis and win the battle of the boards? And I'm talking about the guys up front. Wilson? Hornqvist? Sully? O'Reilly? Legwand? Erat? Shall I keep going? Ward is about the only one to be honest and his effectiveness this year along the boards isn't what it's been in years past.

I'm not suggesting we should have kept any of those three but the more guys that leave here and produce some offensive numbers makes me wonder a little bit about the chances they were or weren't given and/or how much we stifle offensive creativity. I just hope that SK does not get told to stop being creative and to keep up what he's doing lately.

Jarnberg 12-05-2010 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by token grinder (Post 29375400)
all three of those guys are softer than marshmellows, and couldn't win a board battle to save their life. no grit, not toughness, no real drive to do the ugly things that a good defensive system requires.

You just described almost our entire team.

Paranoid Android 12-05-2010 05:39 PM

Jones just wasn't coming along as fast as we hoped. He wasn't talented enough for a scoring line, not smart enough for a defensive line, not big enough for checking line. He can't take faceoffs, he can't fight, he doesn't agitate. He is simply too 1-dimensional for this team. Our system relies on guys who can multitask. Smithson is a perfect example.

The only role Jones could have hoped to fill on this team was a Holmstrom type role, but Hornqvist easily beat him out of that job. I'm much happier without him TBH.

Edmonton is a good fit for him. He is surrounded by young fast talent where all he has to do is bang in rebounds. Edmonton also doesn't really care about playing defense which suits Jones very well. I guarantee you that is Jones was still on the team, he would not be close to his current scoring pace. Not trying to bash Jones though. I love his heart and dedication. We could use more of that sometimes.

deanwormer 12-05-2010 07:41 PM

Jones role was gonna' have to be Ward, and Ward was cheaper and more effective at it. Glad to see Jones fitting in; liked him, but coming in at his salary he was gonna' have to make an immediate splash that he just didn't make. However, given the way we're using JP I'd rather have Jones at a $1mil or so than JP at $4mil.....

Santo - we tried him at wing and he couldn't make it. The only way I could see him making this team was if Poile had signed a wing instead of Lombardi. In hindsight that would've been fine, given the way Orly has played. But Santo got beat out by Orly, plain and simple. The other 3, and Wilson for that matter - clearly superior choices.

CalleJAMkrok 12-05-2010 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 29378793)
You just described almost our entire team.

hahahah so true

CalleJAMkrok 12-05-2010 07:59 PM

i think we acquired him expecting too much out of him because of what he had accomplished in college. So Trotz's patience with him was a short leash, IMO. But i liked him when he was here and hope he can keep up what he is doing for the Oil as of lately.

utmfisher19 12-06-2010 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey FAN8888 (Post 29372627)
He is only averaging about 10 minutes a game so he has managed it in minimal ice time. I understand that some players just don't fit with certain teams and need a change of scenery but this guy gives it 110% every shift and plays with so much passion.

This team cannot afford to have an OFFENSIVE 4th line guys play 10 minutes. We need our 4th line guys to be full of grinders and penalty killers in order to succeed.

Plus, him playing 110% percent doesn't look any different from the other 12 forwards on our team that do it (Trotz always gets his players to play 110% somehow).

PredsV82 12-06-2010 11:20 AM

as others have said, just because someone plays well (or appears to) after they leave here doesnt mean they could have done it here. they all had chances for sure.

all three of those players are succeeding on crappy teams. they are much like the preds were in the early expansion days when I am sure vancouver fans were complaining because they had let Scott Walker go...

quite frankly I still dont understand why Poile traded for jones knowing he would require a $1million QO but i guess that was all we could get for Zids at the time..

CalleJAMkrok 12-06-2010 03:35 PM

i think by the players doing good on crappy teams indicate what they can bring to the table versus them playing on a good team and doing the same thing, IMO. (isnt it easier to play on Crosby's wing than on Colin Fraser's?)

Jones is getting 3rd 4th line minutes and playing up and above his expectations in EDM as of late.

CalleJAMkrok 12-06-2010 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utmfisher19 (Post 29390606)
This team cannot afford to have an OFFENSIVE 4th line guys play 10 minutes. We need our 4th line guys to be full of grinders and penalty killers in order to succeed.

Plus, him playing 110% percent doesn't look any different from the other 12 forwards on our team that do it (Trotz always gets his players to play 110% somehow).

Well pretty soon we'll be paying Dumont HUGE dollars to be a 4th line "OFFENSIVE" guy if he isnt in the press box or traded

OpenWheel 12-06-2010 03:50 PM

I liked Jones and wanted the team to keep him. But there isn't anybody now I'd replace with him. Except Belak. And that's not the same role.

Dumont was totally schooled on that one goal. He tried to do the right thing by charging out on the man with the puck when they won the draw, but you can't get burned like that, he should've just played that zone, been ready to block a shot instead it ended up wide open. I couldn't believe it made Trotz so mad he benched him the rest of the game, but J.P. did get burned badly. I screamed at him myself when it happened, from my easy chair.

I like Dumont, I think he's one of our best players. I don't like that Trotz is so willing to give up his offense, but he's the coach, and he's won a lot of games.

PredsV82 12-07-2010 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goc Ya (Post 29396518)
i think by the players doing good on crappy teams indicate what they can bring to the table versus them playing on a good team and doing the same thing, IMO. (isnt it easier to play on Crosby's wing than on Colin Fraser's?)

Jones is getting 3rd 4th line minutes and playing up and above his expectations in EDM as of late.

I take it to be that if you are on a crappy team you are getting more opportunity than you would on a good team, typically from being on a higher line.

if thats no the case in Edmonton, then its either the difference in systems, or just our bad luck that we let jones go and he improved his game.

But its not like he didnt get chances here, just like Pevs and Santo. Sometimes it just is what it is.


The history of this team for many years was taking other teams cast-offs and making them productive here... Walker, Ronning, Timonen, Dunham and even Vokoun were all drafted by someone else and let go and flourished here... I think its a positive sign that we are now good enough that our castoffs are playing well elsewhere.

triggrman 12-07-2010 04:16 PM

Walker and Timonen weren't really let guy, they were expansion draft pick-ups I bet neither team really wanted to lose those players.

PredsV82 12-07-2010 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman (Post 29419429)
Walker and Timonen weren't really let guy, they were expansion draft pick-ups I bet neither team really wanted to lose those players.

maybe Walker was but I believe Kimmo was picked up for "future considerations"


and in any case the loss of Jones was similar to the loss of Walker.. if we had really wanted to keep Jones we could have given him a QO... just as Vancouver could have protected Walker and exposed someone else. Just like we gambled and lost jones, they gambled and lost Walker

edit: confirmed

Quote:

1998/06/26 Los Angeles Kings traded Jan Vopat and Kimmo Timonen to the Nashville Predators for future considerations.
per tsn

Jmask83 12-08-2010 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PredsV82 (Post 29391992)
as others have said, just because someone plays well (or appears to) after they leave here doesnt mean they could have done it here. they all had chances for sure.

all three of those players are succeeding on crappy teams. they are much like the preds were in the early expansion days when I am sure vancouver fans were complaining because they had let Scott Walker go...

quite frankly I still dont understand why Poile traded for jones knowing he would require a $1million QO but i guess that was all we could get for Zids at the time..

You make it sound like the Preds are awesome or something. They have two more wins than the Oilers that's it.

101st_fan 12-08-2010 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmask83 (Post 29442594)
You make it sound like the Preds are awesome or something. They have two more wins than the Oilers that's it.

Edmonton does have a recent track record of bad seasons and early draft picks.


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