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-   -   Speculation: Possible trade with St Louis? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=850784)

polmaniac932 12-07-2010 11:40 PM

Possible trade with St Louis?
 
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...4b53fadc5.html

Blues looking for a trade, prefferably trading one of their d-men for a cheap forward, apparently "no one is untouchable"...I know Seto's 'tract expires this year, but honestly, if we could package him with a high pick for EJ, wouldn't it be worth it?

USF Shark 12-07-2010 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polmaniac932 (Post 29429462)
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...4b53fadc5.html

Blues looking for a trade, prefferably trading one of their d-men for a cheap forward, apparently "no one is untouchable"...I know Seto's 'tract expires this year, but honestly, if we could package him with a high pick for EJ, wouldn't it be worth it?

They wont trade EJ.

however, someone like Jackman or Polak would be great.

USF Shark 12-07-2010 11:55 PM

St. Louis is willing to move players.

Jackman/Polak and BJ Crombeen for Seto?

Marleau-Thornton-Heatley
Couture-Pavelski-Clowe
McGinn-Mitchell-Crombeen
Mayers-Nichol-Mitchell

Boyle-Murray
Jackman/Polak-Vlasic
Demers-Wallin/Huskins

WTFetus 12-07-2010 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USF Shark (Post 29429551)
They wont trade EJ.

however, someone like Jackman or Polak would be great.

Yeah. Even though they say nobody is untouchable, Erik Johnson and Pietrangelo are the least touchable to the extent that they are pretty much untouchable. ;)

FrizzleFry22 12-08-2010 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USF Shark (Post 29429663)

St. Louis is willing to move players.

Jackman/Polak and BJ Crombeen for Seto?

Marleau-Thornton-Heatley
Couture-Pavelski-Clowe
McGinn-Mitchell-Crombeen
Mayers-Nichol-Mitchell

Boyle-Murray
Jackman/Polak-Vlasic
Demers-Wallin/Huskins

Is Polak a good puck mover? Because if we are going to replace Braun which I feel is inevitable we need a good puck moving D because Vlasic has shown he is not capable of being one relied on lately.

matt trick 12-08-2010 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polmaniac932 (Post 29429462)
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...4b53fadc5.html

Blues looking for a trade, prefferably trading one of their d-men for a cheap forward, apparently "no one is untouchable"...I know Seto's 'tract expires this year, but honestly, if we could package him with a high pick for EJ, wouldn't it be worth it?

If Heatley or Marleau were three or four years younger, and a couple million cheaper, they'd interest them. Thornton probably gets it done. Setoguchi, as a struggling tier two forward, is not the player they move their 23 year-old franchise d-man for. Pavelski or Couture probably won't do it either. They need a pure goal scorer, so Setoguchi, despite his issues would probably really interest them, but with a core of Backes, Perron, Oshie, Berglund, Schwartz and Taransenko, Setoguchi isn't the type of guy they want to move a major player for (EJ or Pietro, maybe Cole).

Jesus Toews* 12-08-2010 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrizzleFry22 (Post 29429871)
Is Polak a good puck mover? Because if we are going to replace Braun which I feel is inevitable we need a good puck moving D because Vlasic has shown he is not capable of being one relied on lately.

Not a puck-mover by any stretch. Very good in his own end with elite shot-blocking ability but not a guy the Sharks should be looking to add at this point.

hockeyball 12-08-2010 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USF Shark (Post 29429551)
They wont trade EJ.

however, someone like Jackman or Polak would be great.

They'd want Couture.

It's not worth it.

USF Shark 12-08-2010 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrizzleFry22 (Post 29429871)
Is Polak a good puck mover? Because if we are going to replace Braun which I feel is inevitable we need a good puck moving D because Vlasic has shown he is not capable of being one relied on lately.

I know he's not an offensively oriented defenseman, and his offensive instincts are not great. I am not sure about his outlet passing, but I know that he has good footspeed and a point shot that he gets through and on net. He's also one of the smarter defensemen on the Blues, is great defensively and is one tough guy.

FrizzleFry22 12-08-2010 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turnstyles (Post 29429973)
Not a puck-mover by any stretch. Very good in his own end with elite shot-blocking ability but not a guy the Sharks should be looking to add at this point.

Yeah I definitely think the Sharks need a good puck moving Dmen , but if hes a top 4 and good defensively than him and Vlasic could potentially be a good Shutdown pair.

Kitten Mittons 12-08-2010 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USF Shark (Post 29429663)
Marleau-Thornton-Heatley
Couture-Pavelski-Clowe

McGinn-Mitchell-Crombeen
Mayers-Nichol-Mitchell

Boyle-Murray
Jackman/Polak-Vlasic
Demers-Wallin/Huskins

Slooooooooooooooooooooo...ooooo....ow. And why are there two Mitchell's on the team? :P

DW is getting desperate, so I see him making a move; but on the other hand, I definitely see him missing out on it.

FrizzleFry22 12-08-2010 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USF Shark (Post 29429977)
I know he's not an offensively oriented defenseman, and his offensive instincts are not great. I am not sure about his outlet passing, but I know that he has good footspeed and a point shot that he gets through and on net. He's also one of the smarter defensemen on the Blues, is great defensively and is one tough guy.

That sounds like a good fit for playoffs assuming Vlasic picks up his puck moving skill. If it where to happen I would like to keep Braun up for powerplay/7dman time. Although he probably would benefit more from playing more time in the AHL.

LadyStanley 12-08-2010 12:44 AM

Moved speculation talk out of Sharks news/notes thread.

polmaniac932 12-08-2010 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyStanley (Post 29430118)
Moved speculation talk out of Sharks news/notes thread.

Sorry about that, LS. Ironically, I posted it in news/notes worried that it was too speculative to create a separate thread for or simply not threadworthy :shakehead

SJeasy 12-08-2010 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrizzleFry22 (Post 29430018)
Yeah I definitely think the Sharks need a good puck moving Dmen , but if hes a top 4 and good defensively than him and Vlasic could potentially be a good Shutdown pair.

That's the mistake Calgary has made. At least one of each pair needs to be a puckmover.

I like Polak and Jackman for their defense. Their ability to move the puck leaves a lot to be desired and shows in the Blues ability to score.

The Sharks are suffering from three issues. Interrelated and it goes back to the action of the summer. They lost Nabby and Blake. They lost puck movement, a defensive stopper, and they have had a dip in goaltending. It shows in the GAA and GFA. They have tried the double stopper routine with Vlasic/Wallin and we have all seen how that absolutely precludes offense. Realistically, they miss the puckmoving part of Blake's game the most. The object of the game is to outscore the opponent, not to just limit the opponent's scoring. 0-0 is not a win and it gets worse if there are small mistakes or great plays by the opponent.

baydrake 12-08-2010 01:21 AM

I still believe Setoguchi has it in him to become a really good top-six forward (dare I say top line?). Even if he weren't to improve, he can likely be retained on a very reasonable next contract. Trading him at this low a point in value wouldn't be good asset management.

Is STL cool with DW? I recall Davidson getting somewhat heated in a radio interview discussing (in oblique terms) DW/John Thornton's reaction to the Perron hit and resulting suspension. DW in a later interview of course talked about it like it wasn't a big deal but I have to wonder if this is a factor.

Besides, isn't DW's M.O. to look at Eastern Conf. teams, especially for impact trades? (Thornton, Heatley, Boyle, Campbell, Rivet) Ehrhoff is an exception that illustrates why. Hopefully this isn't as much of a squeeze as that situation.

SJeasy 12-08-2010 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baydrake (Post 29430379)
I still believe Setoguchi has it in him to become a really good top-six forward (dare I say top line?). Even if he weren't to improve, he can likely be retained on a very reasonable next contract. Trading him at this low a point in value wouldn't be good asset management.

Is STL cool with DW? I recall Davidson getting somewhat heated in a radio interview discussing (in oblique terms) DW/John Thornton's reaction to the Perron hit and resulting suspension. DW in a later interview of course talked about it like it wasn't a big deal but I have to wonder if this is a factor.

Besides, isn't DW's M.O. to look at Eastern Conf. teams, especially for impact trades? (Thornton, Heatley, Boyle, Campbell, Rivet) Ehrhoff is an exception that illustrates why. Hopefully this isn't as much of a squeeze as that situation.

Most GMs go to the other conference. However, at the deadline, those gloves are off. Guerin was acquired from St. Louis. I think it was Pleau who did that deal. Davidson is the Pres. not the GM. I don't think the JT hit would have anything to do with their desire to deal.

USF Shark 12-08-2010 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJeasy (Post 29430454)
Most GMs go to the other conference. However, at the deadline, those gloves are off. Guerin was acquired from St. Louis. I think it was Pleau who did that deal. Davidson is the Pres. not the GM. I don't think the JT hit would have anything to do with their desire to deal.

former Stars GM Doug Armstrong is their new GM this year I believe. I don't think Wilson and Armstrong have any trading history so I wonder how that factors into any possible deals.

SJeasy 12-08-2010 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USF Shark (Post 29430490)
former Stars GM Doug Armstrong is their new GM this year I believe. I don't think Wilson and Armstrong have any trading history so I wonder how that factors into any possible deals.

It's not good because Armstrong has been around (Stars and ?).

baydrake 12-08-2010 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJeasy (Post 29430454)
Most GMs go to the other conference. However, at the deadline, those gloves are off. Guerin was acquired from St. Louis. I think it was Pleau who did that deal. Davidson is the Pres. not the GM. I don't think the JT hit would have anything to do with their desire to deal.

Most GMs also strike me as tight-lipped like DW. I wouldn't expect Armstrong to share as much as Davidson did. Tidbit I'd forgotten till just now: the pick St. Louis got in the Guerin deal ended up being David Perron. Fancy that.

I don't know if it would be to the Blues, but if Cam MacIntyre looks like an NHL top-9'er - or any Worcester forward, really, but he seems the likely choice given the one-way deal - then I'd feel comfortable using a forward in a trade. It will take some time to see if that's the case as he's just returned to the WShark lineup.

FTA: "So you're either looking to trade underperforming players for underperforming players hoping to spark them, or maybe you're looking to trade a position for a different position."
Seto would fit that description, I suppose. EJ or Pietrangelo (don't think they're underperforming, though, are they?) if SJ adds? McGinn+ for Polak? I feel conflicted about it, but I bet Blues fans would too. Maybe that's a sign that it's a plausible thing.

FrizzleFry22 12-08-2010 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJeasy (Post 29430305)
That's the mistake Calgary has made. At least one of each pair needs to be a puckmover.

I like Polak and Jackman for their defense. Their ability to move the puck leaves a lot to be desired and shows in the Blues ability to score.

The Sharks are suffering from three issues. Interrelated and it goes back to the action of the summer. They lost Nabby and Blake. They lost puck movement, a defensive stopper, and they have had a dip in goaltending. It shows in the GAA and GFA. They have tried the double stopper routine with Vlasic/Wallin and we have all seen how that absolutely precludes offense. Realistically, they miss the puckmoving part of Blake's game the most. The object of the game is to outscore the opponent, not to just limit the opponent's scoring. 0-0 is not a win and it gets worse if there are small mistakes or great plays by the opponent.

I mentioned in another reply that the pairing effectiveness relies on Vlasic picking up his puck moving game. I agree with you however that Vlasic Wallin have had major issues even when they do get takeaways they turn the puck right back over. I was also assuming that Polak would be a major upgrade over Wallin. I have not watched any St. Louis games this year aside from when they played the Sharks.

SJeasy 12-08-2010 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrizzleFry22 (Post 29430536)
I mentioned in another reply that the pairing effectiveness relies on Vlasic picking up his puck moving game. I agree with you however that Vlasic Wallin have had major issues even when they do get takeaways they turn the puck right back over. I was also assuming that Polak would be a major upgrade over Wallin. I have not watched any St. Louis games this year aside from when they played the Sharks.

I'm going back to last year myself. Like I said, I like Jackman and Polak defensively. Don't count on Vlasic picking it up, it has been regressing very steadily.

It's OK to pair PMD's, it is not OK to pair two strictly defensive guys. Top teams actually try for PMD's in all top 4 spots, and yes some have to be very good defensively. Of the Sharks top guys, Boyle is the best one to compensate for a strictly defensive partner.

sjshark91 12-08-2010 02:15 AM

I would only want Jackman or EJ which isn't going to happen.

FrizzleFry22 12-08-2010 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJeasy (Post 29430604)
I'm going back to last year myself. Like I said, I like Jackman and Polak defensively. Don't count on Vlasic picking it up, it has been regressing very steadily.

It's OK to pair PMD's, it is not OK to pair two strictly defensive guys. Top teams actually try for PMD's in all top 4 spots, and yes some have to be very good defensively. Of the Sharks top guys, Boyle is the best one to compensate for a strictly defensive partner.

Good points. I have noticed in the past few weeks the difference just having Braun has made to our defense. While he has his rookie mistakes every once in awhile, his ability to pass and shoot has opened up scoring chances left and right.

Lebanezer 12-08-2010 04:12 AM

No Jackman, we might as well try to get Hannan back, except Jackman gets injured. He's not a significant enough upgrade.


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