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-   -   Speculation: Trade A Goalie (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=857784)

LucicTrain* 12-27-2010 11:57 PM

Trade A Goalie
 
i really dont like the idea of having two good goalies, especially when this team is lacking in other areas on the ice (secondary scoring, mobile defense). im not confident that this team as its currently constructed can reach its ultimate goal this season of winning a Cup. i really think there are two roads for the Bruins when it comes to trading either Thomas or Rask. moving Thomas would obviously would be move for the future and given the young core of this team it wouldnt be a bad move. there would be a lot of money off the books next season to spend on a nice class of RFA and UFA. obviously his NTC and sizable salary complicates things but if push came to shove i think it could be done.

the other option would be to trade Rask which would be putting all your chips in one basket. which i wouldnt blame the Bruins for doing... its been a long time since they won a Cup and they got some aging nucleus players (Thomas, Chara, Savard). i wouldnt be able to fault them for going for broke this season.

thoughts on moving either guy?

C77 12-28-2010 12:00 AM

I hate having two good goalies as well. I'd rather have none....or Rob Tallas.

But seriously, let's keep 'em both.

Gruntfuttock 12-28-2010 12:03 AM

Yes, let's trade a possible Hart Trophy candidate.

Or better yet, let's trade our future goalie so we can get a whopping 750k more cap space per season and to fill some hole for the future and there by open up another one.

unifiedtheory 12-28-2010 12:04 AM

No.

Tuukka is going to be a much bigger factor in our eventual success or failure this season then it currently appears. Julien is going to have to play him more. TT will wear down.

LucicTrain* 12-28-2010 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C77 (Post 29808911)
I hate having two good goalies as well. I'd rather have none....or Rob Tallas.

But seriously, let's keep 'em both.

seeing as only one can play... i dont see the need to have two good ones, when like i said this team is obviously lacking in other areas

Artemis 12-28-2010 12:10 AM

So your backup is... Nolan Schaefer? :help:

No. The Bruins are under the cap. Trading Rask would be insane - Thomas isn't going to last forever - and trading Thomas right now would probably spark a riot, both inside and outside the Bruins locker room. :laugh:

Dougie Seguin 12-28-2010 12:13 AM

i would trade Thomas, this team wasent built to win a cup this year. but with the young core and TOR 1st Rounder it will put us in a better position to win next year and long time.

Trade Thomas now because this is when he has the highest return possible, he is the best goalie in the league right now. Just trade him for a backup and some prospects and picks. then you could just ride out the rest of the season, or tank and get 2 top 10 picks :D

EDIT: But in order to trade Thomas, he has to waive his NMC. and that wont happen

Strafer 12-28-2010 12:58 AM

Yes, trade TT for Green and Ovechkin from Washington. Otherwise: NO, TT saves this team every time he plays. You can kiss bye bye to at least 10 points at this point of the season 10 more (at least) by the end of their points total if he isn't here.:shakehead You need to see the movie
"It's A Wonderful Life." :sarcasm::D

LucicTrain* 12-28-2010 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis (Post 29809070)
So your backup is... Nolan Schaefer? :help:

No. The Bruins are under the cap. Trading Rask would be insane - Thomas isn't going to last forever - and trading Thomas right now would probably spark a riot, both inside and outside the Bruins locker room. :laugh:

most likely unless there is someone available in FA im unaware of... but if you lose your starting goaltender for the season on any team its gunna be nearly impossible to win a SC unless you are ridiculously stacked at every other position ala Flyers last season. what if they lost Chara for the season? they'd be screwed, that doesnt mean they should carry a 4 million dollar defensemen as a healthy scratch. its been proven the last few season's that you dont need great goaltending to win a SC, yet along two great goaltenders.

as for your second point... why not move Thomas then if you dont think he will last? why not get that contract off your hands? he's do a ton of money the next 3 seasons and i agree i dont think he gunna be worth the money at the end of the contract, maybe even next season. Rask is pretty dang good wouldnt you say and isnt it reasonable to suggest Thomas might be playing a little over his head? the only way i would wanna keep him is if Rask was to be traded for a piece to make a legit run at SC and the Bruins were gunna ride Thomas and go for broke at a SC

Strafer 12-28-2010 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seguin and Colborne (Post 29809101)
i would trade Thomas, this team wasent built to win a cup this year. but with the young core and TOR 1st Rounder it will put us in a better position to win next year and long time.

Trade Thomas now because this is when he has the highest return possible, he is the best goalie in the league right now. Just trade him for a backup and some prospects and picks. then you could just ride out the rest of the season, or tank and get 2 top 10 picks :D

EDIT: But in order to trade Thomas, he has to waive his NMC. and that wont happen

...and they definately have NO chance without him this year and maybe next unless they get a HUGE return for him. I'd want a # 1 PMD (Doughty $3.5 mill until '11-'12 season) and a somewhat proven backup or a great prospect goalie who is NHL ready, both of whom would have to be signed for hopefully 2 years to reasonable contracts to equal TT's cap hit.

LucicTrain* 12-28-2010 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strafer (Post 29810023)
Yes, trade TT for Green and Ovechkin from Washington. Otherwise: NO, TT saves this team every time he plays. You can kiss bye bye to at least 10 points at this point of the season 10 more (at least) by the end of their points total if he isn't here.:shakehead You need to see the movie
"It's A Wonderful Life." :sarcasm::D

youre absolutely right Thomas saves this team. so what does that say about the rest of the team? unless you think this Thomas is gunna play the role of Hasek in '99 for the Sabres, then i dont think it really matters.

btw id rather watch this movie

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/242...mpionsdvdb.jpg

except with the Bruins on the cover. call me crazy, but i dont think i'll be watching this movie in June

finchster 12-28-2010 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seguin and Colborne (Post 29809101)
i would trade Thomas, this team wasent built to win a cup this year. but with the young core and TOR 1st Rounder it will put us in a better position to win next year and long time.

Trade Thomas now because this is when he has the highest return possible, he is the best goalie in the league right now. Just trade him for a backup and some prospects and picks. then you could just ride out the rest of the season, or tank and get 2 top 10 picks :D

EDIT: But in order to trade Thomas, he has to waive his NMC. and that wont happen

Pens should trade Crosby, his value is at an all time high. :laugh:

Boston BROin 12-28-2010 01:14 AM

What other dominate teams went on cup runs with two outstanding goaltenders? The idea of a fall back of Rask or Thomas is great, but is it really necessary to plan for that? We can make a significant upgrade to severely lacking areas of this team with a trade of Tuukka or Timmy.

The point of this game is to win a championship. I would gladly sacrifice the future for a better shot at the cup the next two years. People were a little scared when the Celtics went for it all and got rid of their "future". That one championship was great. Why not put all our eggs in the next two seasons and trade Tuukka for a great piece now?

It's a risk either way, but here is how I look at it. Goaltender is such an impossible position to predict. Tuukka could be a star or a bust. Look around the league for great examples. We can keep Tuukka and be right on the cusp of greatness for a few years or trade Tuukka, ride Thomas, and try and put this team over the top.

Just something to think about.

Bruins 54 12-28-2010 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finchster (Post 29810224)
Pens should trade Crosby, his value is at an all time high. :laugh:

Two different things, Crosby will perhaps win them another cup ..

Thomas isn't taking the bruins anywhere in the playoffs ... the team play
will have to improve

WhalerTurnedBruin55 12-28-2010 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENG FTW (Post 29810056)
most likely unless there is someone available in FA im unaware of... but if you lose your starting goaltender for the season on any team its gunna be nearly impossible to win a SC unless you are ridiculously stacked at every other position ala Flyers last season. what if they lost Chara for the season? they'd be screwed, that doesnt mean they should carry a 4 million dollar defensemen as a healthy scratch. its been proven the last few season's that you dont need great goaltending to win a SC, yet along two great goaltenders.

as for your second point... why not move Thomas then if you dont think he will last? why not get that contract off your hands? he's do a ton of money the next 3 seasons and i agree i dont think he gunna be worth the money at the end of the contract, maybe even next season. Rask is pretty dang good wouldnt you say and isnt it reasonable to suggest Thomas might be playing a little over his head? the only way i would wanna keep him is if Rask was to be traded for a piece to make a legit run at SC and the Bruins were gunna ride Thomas and go for broke at a SC


Why not move Thomas? Because our chances of winning are greater having 2 #1's than without it. Yes, one of them isn't playing, but it means you have a damn good one to fall back on if one of them falters.

Why not get the contract off your hands? Because by the time Rask's current contract is up, Thomas no longer has a NTC, and it provides us with above average goaltending for at least one more year.

Also, Thomas's contract is the remainder of this season and 2 more seasons. Only one year with an NTC, which happens to expire when Rask is up for a new contract. We are investing 6.25M in goaltending for this season and next. Which for the caliber of goaltending we are getting, we are not going to get cheaper.

Rask is good, yes. But Timmy is doing even better. Even if he is "playing above his head", he's still doing it. And Rask isn't playing up to par this season, which doesn't mean he won't rebound, but fact of the matter, he's not playing as well as Thomas.

Push comes to shove, with our set up we are set up for 2 goalies now, one of which is leading the NHL in a bunch of goalie stats, and another who is said to be a legit #1 one day. Now and the future. There's really nothing short of some ridiculous offer that is gonna get either of them. And I have a good feeling that all the reasons you want to get rid of either one of our goalies, is the same reason another team might not want to pay a kings ransom for either of them.

Rask isn't going to fetch Doughty, Hedman or any legit top pairing defenseman with his whole career ahead of them. If we do trade him it will end up being a quality for quantity trade that the Bruins end up on the short end of the stick. Thomas isn't going to fetch much considering he has an NTC and "that contract" is going to devalue him. I mean if we CAN get a legit package back for either of them, sure, you consider it, but until then, or until we see the offer, both of them need to stay.

Both of their values is far greater than they are to another team. No team is going to actively pursue one of them that is willing to give up what the Bruins need. Play out this season, see how it goes. I'm pretty sure we'll be having the same conversations as long as Thomas is here. Either way, the team shopping the player around, usually is the team that is looking to move them, and is usually the team that doesn't get adequate value back.

bruinsfan101 12-28-2010 01:20 AM

So by your logic, you are saying that we can have Thomas and then some nobody as a backup, correct? So Thomas plays just about every game this season like Brodeur does? Yea....have fun with that. Ill take our situation any day. People seem to think that if a team goes into a slump something has to be done. Are we or are we not in the division lead right now? Did we or did we not win our last 2? Like clearly we are fine. Our defense is fine. Our offense could be better. But of all things, you complain about having TOO MANY GOOD GOALIES?!?!?!?!??!?!? Like I mean how could anybody complain about having too much of something good? Like seriously? I have never in my life heard somebody complain about that.:shakehead

Strafer 12-28-2010 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston BROin (Post 29810258)
I don't see why the OP's post deserved a reaction like that. The idea isn't that crazy.

What other dominate teams went on cup runs with two outstanding goaltenders? The idea of a fall back of Rask or Thomas is great, but is it really necessary to plan for that? We can make a significant upgrade to severely lacking areas of this team with a trade of Tuukka or Timmy.

The point of this game is to win a championship. I would gladly sacrifice the future for a better shot at the cup the next two years. People were a little scared when the Celtics went for it all and got rid of their "future". That one championship was great. Why not put all our eggs in the next two seasons and trade Tuukka for a great piece now?

It's a risk either way, but here is how I look at it. Goaltender is such an impossible position to predict. Tuukka could be a star or a bust. Look around the league for great examples. We can keep Tuukka and be right on the cusp of greatness for a few years or trade Tuukka, ride Thomas, and try and put this team over the top.

Just something to think about.

This is a contradiction, they (the Celtics) traded potential for a championship, TT is already there and waiting for just a couple of players (and maybe a new coach)!

WhalerTurnedBruin55 12-28-2010 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruins 54 (Post 29810286)
Two different things, Crosby will perhaps win them another cup ..

Thomas isn't taking the bruins anywhere in the playoffs ... the team play
will have to improve

He may never. BUT if he is playing like he has been (even on average), I'd be hard pressed to blame Thomas for the team not going anywhere. And I'd hardly blame his contract either. I would say our chances for a cup this season are much better with Thomas + Rask than with Rask/Thomas + Nolan Schaeffer (or random NHL backup in the league). Thomas and Rask are giving us one of the best goaltending duos in the league. Rask with no pressure except maybe to regain his spot back is in a comfortable position to be competing to regain his #1 goalie status, while not having to hold the whole team on his back.

Going back to thinking about what we get on a return for either them; I doubt the return would put us over the edge. Goalies can win series on their own. That gives us 2 chances, 1 more than most other teams. Maybe our goalies have that, maybe they don't. But I doubt at this stage either of our goalies would net us an impact player of that magnitude back on a return.

PsychoDad 12-28-2010 01:28 AM

There is only one goalie playing, but one goalie is not playing all the games, have you heard about that? You dont understand anything about hockey and I just got dumber by reading this.
Bostons goalie situation is ideal. Thomas will be good to superior for the rest of his contract and Rask costs close to nothing as his backup and will step right in after Tims retirement.

Actually welcome to my ignore list.

Bruins 54 12-28-2010 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhalerTurnedBruin55 (Post 29810347)

Going back to thinking about what we get on a return for either them; I doubt the return would put us over the edge. Goalies can win series on their own. That gives us 2 chances, 1 more than most other teams. Maybe our goalies have that, maybe they don't. But I doubt at this stage either of our goalies would net us an impact player of that magnitude back on a return.

I agree, I don't think either goalie would bring much of a return
if any.

I guess Thomas would clear cap space if a good 5 mil defenseman
was available, but there aren't many of them around.

Strafer 12-28-2010 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finchster (Post 29810224)
Pens should trade Crosby, his value is at an all time high. :laugh:

Yes, now see: that's what I'm talkin' about! TT for Crosby and we call it a day!:sarcasm:

LucicTrain* 12-28-2010 01:40 AM

sorry guys but im not buying you need a great backup goalie. the last few years have proven that you dont even need great goaltending to win a Cup just solid goalie play. skater depth is way more important than goalie depth in todays NHL

Rask is an asset being wasted right now by this team, be it his play or trade potential and so is Thomas' and his potential cap space for next season. would you rather have Thomas and Rask or say Thomas Suter and Schaefer for example?

unifiedtheory 12-28-2010 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENG FTW (Post 29810502)
sorry guys but im not buying you need a great backup goalie. the last few years have proven that you dont even need great goaltending to win a Cup just solid goalie play. skater depth is way more important than goalie depth in todays NHL

Rask is an asset being wasted right now by this team, be it his play or trade potential and so is Thomas' and his potential cap space for next season. would you rather have Thomas and Rask or say Thomas Suter and Schaefer for example?

We are not getting Suter for Rask without throwing in more.

Rask will be our starting/franchise goalie in the near future. He's under club control and has a meager cap hit. trading him without getting PREMIUM talent in return in lunacy. Seeing as the market for goaltenders is the lowest it's ever been we'd end up regretting it in the end.

LucicTrain* 12-28-2010 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruinsfan101 (Post 29810319)
So by your logic, you are saying that we can have Thomas and then some nobody as a backup, correct? So Thomas plays just about every game this season like Brodeur does? Yea....have fun with that. Ill take our situation any day. People seem to think that if a team goes into a slump something has to be done. Are we or are we not in the division lead right now? Did we or did we not win our last 2? Like clearly we are fine. Our defense is fine. Our offense could be better. But of all things, you complain about having TOO MANY GOOD GOALIES?!?!?!?!??!?!? Like I mean how could anybody complain about having too much of something good? Like seriously? I have never in my life heard somebody complain about that.:shakehead

how is this too much of a good thing when they are clearly lacking in other areas and have a potential trading chip not being used?

WhalerTurnedBruin55 12-28-2010 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENG FTW (Post 29810522)
how is this too much of a good thing when they are clearly lacking in other areas and have a potential trading chip not being used?

Who do you honestly think we are going to get for either of them? This is an honest question. I highly doubt we'd get someone of Suters caliber straight up for either of them. The real NHL isn't EA Hockey. Most potentially franchise defenseman are not available, even if we are offering Rask or Thomas.


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