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-   -   Three-way PHI-ANA-PHX proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=86059)

Gibsons Finest 06-23-2004 07:09 PM

Three-way PHI-ANA-PHX proposal
 
First...

To PHI: Petr Sykora, Ruslan Salei, 9th overall

To ANA: Joni Pitkanen, Simon Gagne, 2005 2nd round pick


then...

To PHX: PHI 2005 2nd round pick, Niclas Havelid

To ANA: Mike Johnson


Thoughts?

andora 06-23-2004 07:16 PM

let me guess, anaheim fan?

that alone wouldn't get philly to trade pitkanen, let alone gagne AND a 2nd rd pick

Peter Griffin 06-23-2004 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller
First...

To PHI: Petr Sykora, Ruslan Salei, 9th overall

To ANA: Joni Pitkanen, Simon Gagne, 2005 2nd round pick

Yea, good luck with that....

Toonces 06-23-2004 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller
First...

To PHI: Petr Sykora, Ruslan Salei, 9th overall

To ANA: Joni Pitkanen, Simon Gagne, 2005 2nd round pick

Thoughts?

Oh god no. :banghead:

Gibsons Finest 06-23-2004 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
let me guess, anaheim fan?

that alone wouldn't get philly to trade pitkanen, let alone gagne AND a 2nd rd pick

Pitkanen is not worth 9th overall, which can get a d-man who is a lesser prospect, but still not far off from Pitkanen, Petr Sykora and Ruslan Salei. I'd throw a 3rd on the Ducks side, though.

Reaper45 06-23-2004 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller
First...

To PHI: Petr Sykora, Ruslan Salei, 9th overall

To ANA: Joni Pitkanen, Simon Gagne, 2005 2nd round pick


then...

To PHX: PHI 2005 2nd round pick, Niclas Havelid

To ANA: Mike Johnson


Thoughts?

I think the 2nd one would fly, but I don't think the 1st one stands a chance.

Pitkanen>Salei
Gagne>Sykora
9th>2nd rounder but not enough to make up for the others. . . :dunno:

Just my 0.2 cents.

Frolov 06-23-2004 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller
Pitkanen is not worth 9th overall, which can get a d-man who is a lesser prospect, but still not far off from Pitkanen, Petr Sykora and Ruslan Salei. I'd throw a 3rd on the Ducks side, though.

No, prospects like Pitkanen don't come every draft year. That 9th overal pick in this draft year is not worth a 19 year old future Noris caliber defenseman (atleast hype wise).

jas 06-23-2004 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper45
I think the 2nd one would fly, but I don't think the 1st one stands a chance.

Pitkanen>Salei
Gagne>Sykora
9th>2nd rounder but not enough to make up for the others. . . :dunno:

Just my 0.2 cents.

How exactly is Gagne > Sykora? That's probably a draw. Salei and the #9 overall for Pitkanen and a 2nd in 2005...okay so like HR said, the Ducks throw in a 3rd rounder. Actually, it's a pretty fair deal.

andora 06-23-2004 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller
Pitkanen is not worth 9th overall, which can get a d-man who is a lesser prospect, but still not far off from Pitkanen, Petr Sykora and Ruslan Salei. I'd throw a 3rd on the Ducks side, though.

objective value aside (which can never be measured), i was saying i don't think philly would trade pitkanen for that package. the 9th overall isn't as strong as years past or as strong as it usually is, salei while good is a bottom three, bottom pairing defenseman on philly, and sykora is the only real attractive piece. philly is likely to insert some youth next year up front and is speculated to be cutting salary, so bringing in sykora at, what 5 million? doesn't make much sense. even if they buy out leclair, that'll cost leclair's buyout plus sykora's salary...

i just don't think philly would trade one of the top three dmen under 22 for that package

Gibsons Finest 06-23-2004 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper45
I think the 2nd one would fly, but I don't think the 1st one stands a chance.

Pitkanen>Salei
Gagne>Sykora
9th>2nd rounder but not enough to make up for the others. . . :dunno:

Just my 0.2 cents.

I knew it wasn't even. Just wanted to see what others thought.

BTW, I saw it like this:

Pitkanen>>9th overall(maybe add another >)
Sykora>Gagne
Salei=/>2005 2nd rounder

I'm not sure what Gagne's done lately to rate himself higher than Sykora


Quote:

Originally Posted by Frolov
No, prospects like Pitkanen don't come every draft year. That 9th overal pick in this draft year is not worth a 19 year old future Noris caliber defenseman (atleast hype wise).

I didn't say 9th overall was worth him. But you're kidding yourself if you say Pitkanen is worth/worth more than 9th overall, Sykora, and Salei.

blah 06-23-2004 07:31 PM

The Flyers could use Salei if they don't resign Malakhov, and they have made a habit of ripping the Yotes, but there is no way they'll deal Gagne and Pitkanen in the same deal, or touch anything close to that deal you proposed.

andora 06-23-2004 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

I didn't say 9th overall was worth him. But you're kidding yourself if you say Pitkanen is worth/worth more than 9th overall, Sykora, and Salei.


where did anyone actually type pitkanen is worth that whole package? i missed it if it's here, atleast what i said is that i don't think philly will trade pitkanen for that package. that's different

Reaper45 06-23-2004 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller
I knew it wasn't even. Just wanted to see what others thought.

BTW, I saw it like this:

Pitkanen>>9th overall(maybe add another >)
Sykora>Gagne
Salei=/>2005 2nd rounder

I'm not sure what Gagne's done lately to rate himself higher than Sykora.

Yeah, I'd say that's about right. I put Gagne as being better than Sykora simply because of his potential. I think in the long run, he has the potential to be better but now, Sykora is better.

andora 06-23-2004 07:41 PM

i believe gagne is what, 4 or 5 yrs younger too, cheaper.. etc..

Gibsons Finest 06-23-2004 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
where did anyone actually type pitkanen is worth that whole package? i missed it if it's here, atleast what i said is that i don't think philly will trade pitkanen for that package. that's different


Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller
To PHI: Petr Sykora, Ruslan Salei, 9th overall

To ANA: Joni Pitkanen, Simon Gagne, 2005 2nd round pick


Quote:

Originally Posted by andore
that alone wouldn't get philly to trade pitkanen, let alone gagne AND a 2nd rd pick

Unless you meant that the 9th wasn't worth Pitkanen and the whole package wasn't worth what Philly offered(and if you did, you worded it terribly), then you said that. :teach:

Kevin Forbes 06-23-2004 07:46 PM

Gagne, although he has suffered 2 hard years, is also 3-4 years younger then Sykora and cheaper. He has the potential to be just as good as Sykora. Straight up, I'd say Gagne and Sykora are AT THE LEAST equal in value, if not giving the edge to Gagne.

Pitkanen is better then the 9th and Salei. If I was Philly trading Pitkanen, I would only consider it for a top 2 pick. Salei doesn't make up the difference between #2 and #9.

I can't see Philly trading either Gagne or Pitkanen. With aging players in their forward corps and on their blueline, these two are the ones who the Flyers will turn to in the coming years.

Gibsons Finest 06-23-2004 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
i believe gagne is what, 4 or 5 yrs younger too, cheaper.. etc..

3 years younger, $1.2 million cheaper, not nearly as accomplished(and on an offensive team, too).

andora 06-23-2004 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller
Unless you meant that the 9th wasn't worth Pitkanen and the whole package wasn't worth what Philly offered(and if you did, you worded it terribly), then you said that. :teach:

:dunno:.. you really can't see the difference? what i said does not mean "pitkanen is worth more than that package", it means "i don't think that package is enough to get philly to move him"

they are DIFFERENT

Gibsons Finest 06-23-2004 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
:dunno:.. you really can't see the difference? what i said does not mean "pitkanen is worth more than that package", it means "i don't think that package is enough to get philly to move him"

they are DIFFERENT

Do I have to post the quote again? You said "that alone wouldn't get Philly to trade Pitkanen, let alone Gagne AND a 2nd rd pick". I get what you mean, but you really worded it terribly. It sounds like that Pitkanen is worth more than the total package.

andora 06-23-2004 07:54 PM

it's how you're reading it, not how i worded it. i worded it how i meant it, exactly.

you know how there are players on teams, young ones with great upside and great futures that a team would have to drastically overpay to get. pitkanen is one of those guys. i think anaheim would have to offer more than that package (disregarding the actual trade value exchange) to get philly to consider trading someone that they really have NO incentive to trade

Kevin Forbes 06-23-2004 07:55 PM

agreed, Pitkanen and Johnsson are the Flyers future #1 and #2 blueliners

GKJ 06-23-2004 08:06 PM

Geez, I said 'hope no Flyer fans see this' on the Ducks board, and someone takes it to a public forum.


You're not getting Pitkanen, Clarke flat out won't trade him and if he was you'd be giving up more than a 2nd liner and 3rd pair d-man who won't develop any further.

And Gagne is far better than Sykora, if not for anything but he is about 5 years younger who will be really scary once he meshes his defensive presence with his 35 goal abilites/potential, he isn't worth an older 2nd liner and a 5th defenseman who won't develop any further

Gibsons Finest 06-23-2004 08:07 PM

Ok, scrap the first proposal. Instead, how bout have the same thing, but with no Pitkanen, no 9th overall, and Anaheim throws in the 04 third(Salei makes up for value difference in Sykora and Gagne, and third 04 to 2nd 05 jump). And, throw in Petr Schastlivy and Cale Hulse.

It'd look like this:

To Philly: Petr Sykora, Ruslan Salei, Anaheim 2004 third rounder

To Phoenix: Philly 2005 second rounder, Niclas Havelid, Petr Schastlivy

To Anaheim: Simon Gagne, Mike Johnson, Cale Hulse


Philly gives up Gagne, 2nd rounder

Phoenix gives up Mike Johnson

Anaheim gives up Sykora, Salei, Havelid, 3rd rounder


I would prefer to send Mike Leclerc in that type of deal and get Derek Morris back, but that's no where near the right value. To do so, what wpuld I have to add?

Gibsons Finest 06-23-2004 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
it's how you're reading it, not how i worded it. i worded it how i meant it, exactly.

you know how there are players on teams, young ones with great upside and great futures that a team would have to drastically overpay to get. pitkanen is one of those guys. i think anaheim would have to offer more than that package (disregarding the actual trade value exchange) to get philly to consider trading someone that they really have NO incentive to trade

I already said I get what you mean. But, when you say "that wouldn't get Philly to trade Pitkanen", 9 times out of 10 it means that Pitkanen is worth more than the whole package.

Gibsons Finest 06-23-2004 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Geez, I said 'hope no Flyer fans see this' on the Ducks board, and someone takes it to a public forum.


You're not getting Pitkanen, Clarke flat out won't trade him and if he was you'd be giving up more than a 2nd liner and 3rd pair d-man who won't develop any further.

And Gagne is far better than Sykora, if not for anything but he is about 5 years younger who will be really scary once he meshes his defensive presence with his 35 goal abilites/potential, he isn't worth an older 2nd liner and a 5th defenseman who won't develop any further

Sykora a 2nd liner? Gagne far better than him? Ok, now I'm definetely convinced. You are a biased Flyer fan. Gagne may and likely will be better than Sykora in two or three years, but if you can tell Gagne is better than Sykora right now, you're either very biased or a better actor than Mike Ribeiro.


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