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hpNYR 01-12-2011 07:34 PM

Torts' Tampa Bay Stanley Cup Team & Today's NY Rangers
 
I'm curious as to what age Brad Richards, Marty St Louis, Vinny Lecavalier , and Dan Boyle all were back then. It seems to me that team was very young and b/c of that many felt they won't be capable of winning the cup.

Now you know why Torts' created a "core" of young players. Now you know why Torts' was against trading youth. He has had past experience and success with a very young team. He has won a cup with a very young team. The 2004 playoffs were considered to be wide open with no clear favorite. All of the top teams had weaknesses. Tampa Bay and Boston were both young teams with no history of recent postseason success. Detroit, Ottawa, Colorado, and Philadelphia all had major questions in goal. New Jersey was marred by injuries to Scott Stevens and Brian Rafalski, while Vancouver was missing the suspended Todd Bertuzzi.

This team has Tortorella's finger prints all over it.

That Tampa team was led by a young core which included Lecavalier, Richards, Modin, and St Louis. Much like our Rangers being led by Dubinsky, Callahan, Stepan, Staal, and to a extent Gaborik. That Tampa team had a backbone in net in Khabibulin, much like this Ranger team with Lundqvist.

Edit: Did my own research.
Richards was 23 in 2004
Lecavalier was 23 in 2004
Martin St Louis was 28
Dan Boyle was 27


Torts has shaped a similar team with a similar pedigree with our Rangers. He has had a history with young teams. It's a pretty darn good history too.

NYR Sting 01-12-2011 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpNYR (Post 30167934)
I'm curious as to what age Brad Richards, Marty St Louis, Vinny Lecavalier , and Dan Boyle all were back then. It seems to me that team was very young and b/c of that many felt they won't be capable of winning the cup.

Now you know why Torts' created a "core" of young players. Now you know why Torts' was against trading youth. He has had past experience and success with a very young team. He has won a cup with a very young team. The 2004 playoffs were considered to be wide open with no clear favorite. All of the top teams had weaknesses. Tampa Bay and Boston were both young teams with no history of recent postseason success. Detroit, Ottawa, Colorado, and Philadelphia all had major questions in goal. New Jersey was marred by injuries to Scott Stevens and Brian Rafalski, while Vancouver was missing the suspended Todd Bertuzzi.

This team has Tortorella's finger prints all over it.

That Tampa team was led by a young core which included Lecavalier, Richards, Modin, and St Louis. Much like our Rangers being led by Dubinsky, Callahan, Stepan, Staal, and to a extent Gaborik. That Tampa team had a backbone in net in Khabibulin, much like this Ranger team with Lundqvist.

Edit: Did my own research.
Richards was 23 in 2004
Lecavalier was 23 in 2004
Martin St Louis was 28
Dan Boyle was 27


Torts has shaped a similar team with a similar pedigree with our Rangers. He has had a history with young teams. It's a pretty darn good history too.

There's a pretty dramatic difference in top end talent and skill with that team. Brad Richards, for example. scored 62 points in each of his first two seasons in the league, as a 20 and 21 year old, and this was in 2000-2002.

Cynical TyranT 01-12-2011 07:46 PM

Agreed with Sting. The top-end talent drop off is enormous.

Still like our team, however.

Rust Heisenberg 01-12-2011 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting36e (Post 30168103)
There's a pretty dramatic difference in top end talent and skill with that team. Brad Richards, for example. scored 62 points in each of his first two seasons in the league, as a 20 and 21 year old, and this was in 2000-2002.

I believe that team becomes this team in a couple of seasons... however, we'll have more players with skill than that team.

Zucarello has shades of St. Louis.
Anisimov has shades of Lecavier.
Stepan has shades of Richards.
Staal has shades of Boyle.

Im not saying that these players are the same, talent-wise, however they are similar playing wise. It took St. Louis a while before he became dominant in the NHL. Zucarello has a very bright future. Lecavier and Anisimov have similar playing styles and build although Lecavier has more talent. Stepan and Richards are similar but Richards has more grit. Over time I fully expect Stepan to become the leader Richards is. And Staal is becoming better every year. The sky is the limit for him.

However, on this team, we also have, Gaborik (something that Tampa team did not have). We also have Dubinsky, Callahan, Wolski, Prust, Boyle, and Avery... not to mention a Captain that will hopefully regain some sort of his old form as the season goes along.

In 2 years, we'll likely have all of the players mentioned besides Avery and Drury. We'll have one hell of a mashing and solid defense. And we'll also have roughly 20 mill more to spend on pure talent... not to mention we also have a few prospects that might make it big here in a few years... Kreider, Werek, Bourque come to mind.

XLJ 01-12-2011 07:59 PM

When we play our "A" game the style of hockey is similar to that team. But the difference is that tampa cup winning team was loaded. We are not even close to how talented that team was.

msv957 01-12-2011 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpNYR (Post 30167934)
I'm curious as to what age Brad Richards, Marty St Louis, Vinny Lecavalier , and Dan Boyle all were back then. It seems to me that team was very young and b/c of that many felt they won't be capable of winning the cup.

Now you know why Torts' created a "core" of young players. Now you know why Torts' was against trading youth. He has had past experience and success with a very young team. He has won a cup with a very young team. The 2004 playoffs were considered to be wide open with no clear favorite. All of the top teams had weaknesses. Tampa Bay and Boston were both young teams with no history of recent postseason success. Detroit, Ottawa, Colorado, and Philadelphia all had major questions in goal. New Jersey was marred by injuries to Scott Stevens and Brian Rafalski, while Vancouver was missing the suspended Todd Bertuzzi.

This team has Tortorella's finger prints all over it.

That Tampa team was led by a young core which included Lecavalier, Richards, Modin, and St Louis. Much like our Rangers being led by Dubinsky, Callahan, Stepan, Staal, and to a extent Gaborik. That Tampa team had a backbone in net in Khabibulin, much like this Ranger team with Lundqvist.

Edit: Did my own research.
Richards was 23 in 2004
Lecavalier was 23 in 2004
Martin St Louis was 28
Dan Boyle was 27


Torts has shaped a similar team with a similar pedigree with our Rangers. He has had a history with young teams. It's a pretty darn good history too.

Really good post. That Tampa team had about as much talent on that team as the Rangers have on this team. In fact, Hank might be better than Khabibulin.

This Ranger team has a good chance..

hpNYR 01-12-2011 08:11 PM

Not so much comparing the talent levels as much as the general picture, which has similarities..... im emphasizing the youth and how young and inexperienced that tampaa team was. The same could be said with the majority of our team. Drury playing the role of Dave Andreychuk.

hpNYR 01-12-2011 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msv957 (Post 30168617)
Really good post. That Tampa team had about as much talent on that team as the Rangers have on this team. In fact, Hank might be better than Khabibulin.

This Ranger team has a good chance..

Maybe not this season, but the next or the one following it will be very exciting times for this franchise. I really feel that way. Good on the part of Torts highlightinng the core and putting the manager in no position to make stupid moves with youth.

BlueshirtBlitz 01-12-2011 08:22 PM

Yes, but then again you can't really compare Richards and Vinny Lecav to Stepan and Anisimov yet. The talent drop off is the biggest reason we're not cup contenders- if we had the talent of that team, combined with the heart of guys like Dubi and Cally we'd be contenders today.

I do think in a few years if guys like Dubinsky, Staal, Stepan, Anisimov and Cally keep improving then yes, this team should be able to compete.

Blue Line Monster 01-12-2011 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msv957 (Post 30168617)
Really good post. That Tampa team had about as much talent on that team as the Rangers have on this team. In fact, Hank might be better than Khabibulin.

This Ranger team has a good chance..


:help:

Florida Ranger 01-12-2011 08:26 PM

St. Louis was MVP that year.

We don't have that.


Marc Staal isn't similar to Dan Boyle. Bad comparison.

Staal's turning into a two-way defenseman. I remember Boyle being the offensive defenseman - the go to defenseman moving the puck.

Pavel Kubina on the other hand. He had a shot, great defense. I wanted the Rangers to pick him up this past off-season. Staal's slapper has great potential. Not there yet. His defense might be. I think Pavel Kubina - Marc Staal comparison is better.

hpNYR 01-12-2011 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA (Post 30168981)
St. Louis was MVP that year.

We don't have that.

St Louis scored 94 points that year. 38 goals.
Gaborik scored 86 points(in 76 games)last season. 42 goals.

Gabby has been off and on this season, but who's to say he doesn't turn it on to the pace he was scoring last season.

Florida Ranger 01-12-2011 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpNYR (Post 30169080)
St Louis scored 94 points that year. 38 goals.
Gaborik scored 86 points(in 76 games)last season. 42 goals.

Gabby has been off and on this season, but who's to say he doesn't turn it on to the pace he was scoring last season.

Right. That was Gabby of last year. And don't block out assists. St. Louis had 56 that year.

I'm sure he'll pick it up, but who knows.

I know St. Louis wasn't this inconsistent in 04 as Gaborik is now, if I recall correctly.

GWOW 01-12-2011 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpNYR (Post 30167934)
I'm curious as to what age Brad Richards, Marty St Louis, Vinny Lecavalier , and Dan Boyle all were back then. It seems to me that team was very young and b/c of that many felt they won't be capable of winning the cup.

Now you know why Torts' created a "core" of young players. Now you know why Torts' was against trading youth. He has had past experience and success with a very young team. He has won a cup with a very young team. The 2004 playoffs were considered to be wide open with no clear favorite. All of the top teams had weaknesses. Tampa Bay and Boston were both young teams with no history of recent postseason success. Detroit, Ottawa, Colorado, and Philadelphia all had major questions in goal. New Jersey was marred by injuries to Scott Stevens and Brian Rafalski, while Vancouver was missing the suspended Todd Bertuzzi.

This team has Tortorella's finger prints all over it.

That Tampa team was led by a young core which included Lecavalier, Richards, Modin, and St Louis. Much like our Rangers being led by Dubinsky, Callahan, Stepan, Staal, and to a extent Gaborik. That Tampa team had a backbone in net in Khabibulin, much like this Ranger team with Lundqvist.

Edit: Did my own research.
Richards was 23 in 2004
Lecavalier was 23 in 2004
Martin St Louis was 28
Dan Boyle was 27


Torts has shaped a similar team with a similar pedigree with our Rangers. He has had a history with young teams. It's a pretty darn good history too.

Some similarities, but Tampa's defense was better and more experienced than ours.

hpNYR 01-12-2011 09:00 PM

For one...Lecavalier and Dubinsky can be compared. Both taking their sweet time developing their game. Lecavalier had a 28 point rookie season...in 82 games. In 2004 Lecavalier had a 66 point season. Who's to say Dubinsky can't crack 60 points this season at the pace he's going

St Louis and Gaborik statistically are close.

Henrik and Khabibulin are a wash...and arguably Henrik is the better netminder.

Defensively we have Staal who shuts down opposing stars....not sure if Tampa had a guy like that. They did have a Boyle though.

The edge comes with Brad Richards when you really want to compare.

hpNYR 01-12-2011 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee (Post 30169516)
Some similarities, but Tampa's defense was better and more experienced than ours.

Our young defense is a concern for sure. I expect us to pick someone up by the deadline, though.

turcotte8 01-12-2011 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpNYR (Post 30169749)

The edge comes with Brad Richards when you really want to compare.

So what you're saying is we need to get Brad Richards? ;)

hpNYR 01-12-2011 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turcotte8 (Post 30169852)
So what you're saying is we need to get Brad Richards? ;)

:naughty:

Inferno 01-12-2011 09:38 PM

that tampa team was STACKED with talent...theyve been stacked since then just havent been able to put it together... they were ridiculously good though.

Florida Ranger 01-12-2011 11:28 PM

A lot of credit goes to Tortorella.

The team was absolute **** when he got them. And as he continued to be there, they gradually got better. The guy knows how to work with youth with Richards and Lecavalier. That's why I can't stand when I hear and see some people say he doesn't know how to handle players and he's too angry. He got Cory Stillman to almost be a point per game player.

Look then. Look now. He gets the best out of his players. Khabibulin rings a bell.

In my opinion, he's the reason why Lecavalier made a jump into the superstar he was, especially in '07 and '08.

hpNYR 01-13-2011 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA (Post 30174048)
A lot of credit goes to Tortorella.

The team was absolute **** when he got them. And as he continued to be there, they gradually got better. The guy knows how to work with youth with Richards and Lecavalier. That's why I can't stand when I hear and see some people say he doesn't know how to handle players and he's too angry. He got Cory Stillman to almost be a point per game player.

Look then. Look now. He gets the best out of his players. Khabibulin rings a bell.

In my opinion, he's the reason why Lecavalier made a jump into the superstar he was, especially in '07 and '08.

Without a doubt he's possibly in the top 5 when it comes to coaches. Obviously Scotty Bowman is on that list.

mrhockey193195 01-13-2011 02:43 AM

Usually I'm surprised by how much older guys are than I thought (time flies, you know), but I'm never not amazed by how young Lecavalier is. The guy was 23 in 2004?!?!? And he's only 30 or so now?!?!?! He might have a good 10 seasons ahead of him, and it seems like he's been playing forever.

skroob** 01-13-2011 10:05 AM

What it comes down to is this:

Richards/St Louis/Vinny vs Gaborik


Its a 3:1 advantage for TB when it comes down to 'guys who can score at any minute'

When you can spread around your threats, you can make things happen. Rangers do not have that.

Florida Ranger 01-13-2011 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skroob (Post 30178581)
What it comes down to is this:

Richards/St Louis/Vinny vs Gaborik


Its a 3:1 advantage for TB when it comes down to 'guys who can score at any minute'

When you can spread around your threats, you can make things happen. Rangers do not have that.

Add Dubinsky to it. It's a 3:2.

What they - that we definitely don't - had was an experienced defense. As you all know, we don't. Ours is extremely young with promising. It's a process. We'll get there soon.

I just took a quick look at the Lecavalier's and Richard's FO%, we're at least slightly better at that with Dubinsky and Boyle. lol

hpNYR 01-13-2011 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA (Post 30178637)
Add Dubinsky to it. It's a 3:2.

What they - that we definitely don't - had was an experienced defense. As you all know, we don't. Ours is extremely young with promising. It's a process. We'll get there soon.

I just took a quick look at the Lecavalier's and Richard's FO%, we're at least slightly better at that with Dubinsky and Boyle. lol

You also have to put Lundqvist and Khabby in the mix.

Staal and Girardi have proven they can shutdown any marquee name out there.


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