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-   -   Using top-6 forwards to kill penalties... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=864258)

CTU2fan 01-12-2011 06:52 PM

Using top-6 forwards to kill penalties...
 
Is it worth it? The obvious pros are you're putting the best players on the ice, and in the Flyers case it's inherently viable considering that Richards, Giroux, and Carter all do a fine job killing penalties. The cons are you're cutting into the ES shifts those guys will play by using them 4-5 times a night playing a shorthanded shift.

Personally I like it. While Betts and Powe are fine PKers, the presence of Richards, Carter, or Giroux on the PK is a constant threat of a turnover and a SH chance for the Flyers. I'm not sure if there's a way to quantify it, but particularly in cases where the PP is using a forward on the point or a less-than-elite offensive d-man out there I think it's a real disruption to their PP with those guys out there.

HoverCarle* 01-12-2011 06:56 PM

with our forward depth it's fine. If we only had 4 top 6 forwards or something we probably wouldn't do it.

However if we grab a 3rd line winger at the deadline, I think he should good on the PK to have another good option. Right now we have:

Richards-Giroux
Betts-Powe
Carter-Nodl

jb** 01-12-2011 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTU2fan (Post 30168352)
Is it worth it? The obvious pros are you're putting the best players on the ice, and in the Flyers case it's inherently viable considering that Richards, Giroux, and Carter all do a fine job killing penalties. The cons are you're cutting into the ES shifts those guys will play by using them 4-5 times a night playing a shorthanded shift.

Personally I like it. While Betts and Powe are fine PKers, the presence of Richards, Carter, or Giroux on the PK is a constant threat of a turnover and a SH chance for the Flyers. I'm not sure if there's a way to quantify it, but particularly in cases where the PP is using a forward on the point or a less-than-elite offensive d-man out there I think it's a real disruption to their PP with those guys out there.

I said this in another thread as i feel at some point the coach will have no choice but to put those guys more on the pk if it continues to struggle

Valhoun* 01-12-2011 07:06 PM

If you are using your best forwards to routinely kill penalties then the GM has utterly failed at signing quality role players.

Sure, you want guys like Richards out there to protect leads and key situations. But you don't want to kill his offense by having him kill penalties all game.

Also, Richards has hit a wall most seasons by being overplayed. This is less obvious with Lavy but was horrible under Stevens.

Garbage Goal 01-12-2011 07:32 PM

As far as them handling a heavy PK workload (which is different from working the PK at all) it should be a last resort as any good bottom six player should be capable of PK'ing.

HoverCarle* 01-12-2011 07:32 PM

I think the amount they play now is fine though.

CharlieGirl 01-12-2011 07:43 PM

Playing Lavi's system has cut down on the number of PK's (significantly, or so it seems), so I think the amount they're playing now is fine.

I'm glad to have Betts/Powe take the bigger share of the PK though.

John Flyers Fan 01-12-2011 09:42 PM

I think the mistake with the PK is that they've gone primarily with just two pairs.

Betts/Powe and Richards/Girouxdo 90+% of the penalty killing.

Carter/Nodl should be killing penalties as well, saves the wear & tear on them all.

PhillyCurt12 01-12-2011 10:24 PM

another excuse for me to drop thoresen's name again... i'm really hoping he replaces carcillo or even nodl or powe if they aren't retained/ are traded away come next season. he's a world-class penalty killer and could bring more offensively to the line up than those three imo.

edit: you can throw in Z to that mix too. superstar obviously is on the list too, but i unfortunately doubt he'll move.

RoDu 01-12-2011 10:35 PM

Thoreson is a scrub, lets get some one with talent

mirimon 01-13-2011 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan (Post 30173007)
I think the mistake with the PK is that they've gone primarily with just two pairs.

Betts/Powe and Richards/Girouxdo 90+% of the penalty killing.

Carter/Nodl should be killing penalties as well, saves the wear & tear on them all.

I'd like to see this as well.

Edit: Though, I think I'd try and switch Nödl to play with Betts and have Powe together with Carter. Just have a feeling they'd fit each other better.

HoverCarle* 01-13-2011 05:44 AM

Thoresen has talent, just no finish. Similar to Nodl really

PhillyCurt12 01-13-2011 07:34 AM

he's been one of the best forwards offensively in the KHL. even if he hasn't found his scoring touch for the NHL, i think he would easily surpass the production of powe, carcillo, and probably even nodl if given top-9 minutes. but i doubt it happens. i just have a big time man-crush on him... love his heart.

edits seem to be my theme: homer will be due for another khl signing lol

LEIFey 01-13-2011 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hovercraft (Post 30177400)
Thoresen has talent, just no finish. Similar to Nodl really

Well, Nodl has been a pleasant surprise this year. Thoresen could be another pleasant surprise if we don't expect much from him. Low expectations = pleasant surprise usually:)

Flyskippy 01-13-2011 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hovercraft (Post 30177400)
Thoresen has talent, just no finish. Similar to Manderville really

Slight fix. Neither was put on the team to score goals, but to prevent them - especially on the PK.

CanadianFlyer88 01-13-2011 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieGirl (Post 30169365)
Playing Lavi's system has cut down on the number of PK's (significantly, or so it seems), so I think the amount they're playing now is fine.

I'm glad to have Betts/Powe take the bigger share of the PK though.

Heh.

The Flyers are still near the top of the league in times shorthanded.

HoverCarle* 01-13-2011 10:31 AM

Thor has become quite the scorer over in europe

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=62297

Valhoun* 01-13-2011 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hovercraft (Post 30179772)
Thor has become quite the scorer over in europe

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=62297

Getting checked... his only weakness.

HoverCarle* 01-13-2011 10:39 AM

Yeah it takes less balls to be successful over there...

CTU2fan 01-13-2011 11:31 AM

I'm definitely on board with using Carter more and balancing the PK work between 3 pairs. It helps that no one on the Briere line would ever see any PK time, so after a kill Lavi can always come back with those guys.

agrudez* 01-13-2011 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hovercraft (Post 30179900)
Yeah it takes less balls to be successful over there...

Man, that was a low blow. :laugh:

sobrien 01-13-2011 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEIFey (Post 30178817)
Well, Nodl has been a pleasant surprise this year. Thoresen could be another pleasant surprise if we don't expect much from him. Low expectations = pleasant surprise usually:)

I had low expectations for Shelley. I'm still disappointed :help:

flountown 01-13-2011 12:50 PM

I don't mind our Top 6 guys getting less even strength, because that ES time goes directly to the Briere-Hartnell-Leino line,which seems to be our best ES line. Richards,Giroux and Carter will make up their time on the PK by getting PP time.

HoverCarle* 01-13-2011 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sobrien (Post 30181855)
I had low expectations for Shelley. I'm still disappointed :help:

I don't hate Shelley as a goon. He is a better hockey player than Cote, but he makes double what he should and 3 years is crazy. And he shouldnt play every game

CTU2fan 01-13-2011 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hovercraft (Post 30184524)
I don't hate Shelley as a goon. He is a better hockey player than Cote, but he makes double what he should and 3 years is crazy. And he shouldnt play every game

Yeah, he's actually a little better player than I expected. But what disappointed me is I expected him to be a dominant fighter and he's not. I should have known, those guys tend to not age very well.


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