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-   -   Proposal: Couple Oiler suggestions {with Boston/Montreal} (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=866662)

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 01-19-2011 01:16 AM

Couple Oiler suggestions {with Boston/Montreal}
 
im not an oiler fan... but i think there are a couple deals that make too much sense not to do.

Start with Souray for Gomez

I think the deal makes sense cause Gomez has 3 more years at 7.3 and isnt a legit number 1 on a cup caliber team anymore {if he ever was} Im unsure Plekanec is a legit number 1 either, but he is signed for 5 more years so at the very least he is your number 2. Gomez will kill a team if hes paid 7.3 on a third line.

Edmonton can actually use him as their number 1, cause realistically they are 3 years away from competing for a cup at the very least. Gomez isnt a legit number 1 center as far as talent goes... but he is a winner from the Jersey system that understands what playing good defense leads too. He can get the puck to guys like Hall and Eberle while also serving as a good example how to develop into cup winning type quality hockey players.

Souray obviously is a lost cause in Edmonton... but he was a 20 goal scoring pp monster in Montreal and had a good reputation in their locker room. Possibly he had a legitmate beef in Edmonton? What is done is done... Edmonton has completely destroyed all of Souray's trade value.

Montreal has both Markov and Hamerlik up for UFA this year. Souray can slip into one of their spots if they lose one of them.

I know Edmonton takes on 2 years of extra salary here, but they actually get a leader that will play and help their kids develop, instead of a cancer that has to play in the AHL.

No one will do Edmonton any favors and take Souray without dumping a ton of unwanted salary back on them even next year, cause edmonton has totally screwed themselves on this deal and once a guy goes to the AHL... he is there for the season, cause no one else can recall him without him going through waivers either.

*****************
if anyone wanted to suggest Hemsky be put into the trade signed next year for 4.1 and Montreal give up their first round pick to Edmonton, then sure... why not. But my proposal is just simple gomez for souray
*****************

independent of this deal, I suggest Edmonton take Andrew Ference and Dan Paille off of Boston. Ference is making 2.2 for a couple years and is in the way of Boston making a needed upgrade to their blueline. He does that right to play charity and is a really super quality citizen off the ice... very respected by teammates... a mans man. For a young team needing leadership, Ference would be 100 times upgrade over Strudwick since Strudwick isnt really a legitimate NHL quality player anymore. Ference would be able to play decent 20 mins per night until his contract runs out... and hes from the edmonton area too. thats a bonus.

I throw Paille into the deal cause he simply doesnt have a spot in Boston's top 12 forwards anymore and he is signed for 1 mill for next year. its too much for a 13th forward. Edmonton is in desperate desperate desperate need for some bottom line guys that can actually play quality NHL mins. their pk is horrific. Paille does have some decent skill and will pop you 10-15 goals while giving you high quality pk if you play him on your third line. for a team, that probably doesnt care if it finishes bottom 5 next year and gets even one more great young pick to try to build a cup caliber team with... Paille should have some useful value to fill out a lineup and help prevent so many dishearting blowout loses.

Id be almost willing to give Ference/Paille away for nothing but i am going to ask for Brule back. I know he is overpaid and probably a bust. At best he seems to be a third line agitator now. But he did play with Lucic in Vancouver and I guess they are buddies. I never think its a bad thing to have buddies on a team. makes them more loyal to stick around IMO.

Boston is probably going to go with Horton/Seguin/Caron on Rw next year and Savard/Krecji/Bergeron at center. Brule wouldnt play ahead of any of these guys I guess. Lucic/Wheeler/Marchard have the inside track at the three top LW spots with Colborne the top prospect likely to push for a change.

Brule would be a 4th line guy likely with the B's so I dont care a heck of a lot if we get him or not... but Edmonton has too many underachieving busted high end picks in their lineup and need more lunchpail guys that can actually play. Either Brule or Cogliano should be moved sooner rather then later cause neither is good enough to play top 6... neither is suited for bottom line... and they dont usually end up having great nights when played together on a third line.

my two suggestions arent very sexy and probably will be met with overwhelming apathy or scorn even... but I share them with whoever takes the time to read through this proposal and I will debate if anyone wants a good spirit debate.

Dr Danglefest 01-19-2011 01:39 AM

no comment on souray for gomez because idk what their deal is enough to comment but i know they are getting injuries to their blueline like its going out of fashion. plus souray already played their and was well liked.


but boston doesnt have any use for brule now or in the future, you actually revealed that quite heavily in your post. I wouldnt give up ference for free becuase he is a player that ALWAYS has his teammates back on the ice even if he's running in to get his ass kicked. paille i could care less maybe just a draft pick or a stretch prospect

iCanada 01-19-2011 01:43 AM

I actually wouldn't mind these deals. I like Gomez as a player, but i'm not sure that is the direction we should turn. I do like the deal with Boston though,we need some players who can play big and mean.

My biggest wishlist for the offseason is a big mean RHD, some centers who can win faceoffs, and a guy or two that just run around and hit everything that moves. If Tambellini can grab a Halpern/Smithson/Nichol/Konopka, a Tootoo/Kaleta/Clarkson, and a guy like Jurcina, Wisniewski or Engelland i would get down on my knees and ask him to marry me.

I'm just tired of watching my team get pushed around. The effort level this year is better, but we just have nobody to set the tone... teams come in and they don't care because they don't need to care.

dnicks17 01-19-2011 01:46 AM

One more year of Souray vs. 3 more years of Gomez.

Not a chance we want Gomez on the books when we're re-signing Penner/Hemsky and Hall/Eberle/Paajarvi.


We have no need for Andrew Ference or Dan Paille either. Even without Whitney, our D is fine. Paille really doesn't bring anything unique to the roster either. We aren't in desperate need of bottom 6 players, actually we almost have too many. Also, our PK has been much better lately.

Dr Danglefest 01-19-2011 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnicks17 (Post 30309406)
One more year of Souray vs. 3 more years of Gomez.

Not a chance we want Gomez on the books when we're re-signing Penner/Hemsky and Hall/Eberle/Paajarvi.


We have no need for Andrew Ference or Dan Paille either. Even without Whitney, our D is fine. Paille really doesn't bring anything unique to the roster either. We aren't in desperate need of bottom 6 players, actually we almost have too many. Also, our PK has been much better lately.

:facepalm: this is why you guys are in last. your defense is awful and your pk is awful...you dont have too many bottom 6 guys you have too many AHLers on your roster

ference and paille arent stars by any stretch of the imagination but sadly they are upgrades to your current roster

iCanada 01-19-2011 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnicks17 (Post 30309406)
One more year of Souray vs. 3 more years of Gomez.

Not a chance we want Gomez on the books when we're re-signing Penner/Hemsky and Hall/Eberle/Paajarvi.


We have no need for Andrew Ference or Dan Paille either. Even without Whitney, our D is fine. Paille really doesn't bring anything unique to the roster either. We aren't in desperate need of bottom 6 players, actually we almost have too many. Also, our PK has been much better lately.

We have niche bottom six guys though. Horcoff is injured all the time, Reddox is the smallest guy in the league, and we don't have any Center that can win a faceoff. We also get beat up every other game...

We aren't in need of bodies, we are in need of solid quality roleplayers.

dnicks17 01-19-2011 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Danglefest (Post 30309443)
:facepalm: this is why you guys are in last. your defense is awful and your pk is awful...you dont have too many bottom 6 guys you have too many AHLers on your roster

ference and paille arent stars by any stretch of the imagination but sadly they are upgrades to your current roster

Who took a piss in your cheerios?

You clearly don't follow the Oilers.


Quote:

Originally Posted by iCanada (Post 30309448)
We have niche bottom six guys though. Horcoff is injured all the time, Reddox is the smallest guy in the league, and we don't have any Center that can win a faceoff. We also get beat up every other game...

We aren't in need of bodies, we are in need of solid quality roleplayers.

Reddox might be small, but he's a solid bottom 6 guy and a good PKer. Horcoff might be hurt all the time, but he's a good leader and probably our best 2-way C. Our bottom 6 will be fine on face-offs soon enough. Horcoff is a 55%+ guy and Lander/O'Marra will be stepping in soon, and they're both very good at face-offs.

I'm not sure how you don't consider Cogliano, Jones, Reddox or Fraser quality role players.


Ference might be an upgrade on our 3rd pairing, but we're rebuilding. There's no point upgrading positions now when we have young guys ready to step in. Same goes for Paille.

Dr Danglefest 01-19-2011 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnicks17 (Post 30309455)
Who took a piss in your cheerios?

You clearly don't follow the Oilers.

haha nice...i dont even have a comeback to that

iCanada 01-19-2011 02:03 AM

I agree with both of you to a point, the Oilers bottom six sucks. But at the same time, where in the world does Paille play? Reddox and Jones have a lock on that third line LW spot, and i would want someone a bit more physically committed for the fourth line duties if i had the choice.

/shrug

I just want to combine a bunch of mediocre guys into one or two great guys. It is ridiculous how much a guy like Tootoo would bring to our team.

Dr Danglefest 01-19-2011 02:04 AM

but in all seriousness its not NHL 11 role players are a must. every player on the roster needs a purpose, you dont have a pk specialist (paille, whom is still young and fairly cheap) or a rough and tough leader type who is well liked in the lockerroom at the blueline.

iCanada 01-19-2011 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Danglefest (Post 30309490)
but in all seriousness its not NHL 11 role players are a must. every player on the roster needs a purpose, you dont have a pk specialist (paille, whom is still young and fairly cheap) or a rough and tough leader type who is well liked in the lockerroom at the blueline.

Well, I'd argue Peckham is that guy, but i'd like to add another guy like him in there.

dnicks17 01-19-2011 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Danglefest (Post 30309490)
but in all seriousness its not NHL 11 role players are a must. every player on the roster needs a purpose, you dont have a pk specialist (paille, whom is still young and fairly cheap) or a rough and tough leader type who is well liked in the lockerroom at the blueline.

Not really true.

Cogliano, Reddox, Jones and Fraser have been good on the PK. Penner has also been very good on the PK. Our PK hasn't been nearly as bad as it was for the first few monthes.

Reddox-Cogliano-Jones
Jacques-Fraser-Stortini/Smac

Every guy in our bottom 6 is on a 1 way contract, except Reddox, but he won't clear waivers if he's sent down.


The problem with adding a D is contracts too.

Right now, we're running with:

Gilbert-Peckham
Smid-Petry
Chorney-Foster
Struds

Chorney will get sent back down when Vandermeer is healthy. We would then have 7 D signed to 1-way contracts, as well as Petry on a 2-way who is playing way too well to send down.

Peckham and Smid both fill the "rough and tough leader type" mold.

The other problem is Ference is signed next year too. We already have too many bodies next year.


The deals just doesn't make sense for the rebuild.

Dr Danglefest 01-19-2011 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnicks17 (Post 30309517)
Not really true.

Cogliano, Reddox, Jones and Fraser have been good on the PK. Penner has also been very good on the PK. Our PK hasn't been nearly as bad as it was for the first few monthes.

Reddox-Cogliano-Jones
Jacques-Fraser-Stortini/Smac

Every guy in our bottom 6 is on a 1 way contract, except Reddox, but he won't clear waivers if he's sent down.


The problem with adding a D is contracts too.

Right now, we're running with:

Gilbert-Peckham
Smid-Petry
Chorney-Foster
Struds

Chorney will get sent back down when Vandermeer is healthy. We would then have 7 D signed to 1-way contracts, as well as Petry on a 2-way who is playing way too well to send down.

Peckham and Smid both fill the "rough and tough leader type" mold.

The other problem is Ference is signed next year too. We already have too many bodies next year.


The deals just doesn't make sense for the rebuild.

regardless of who is playing on the PK edmonton is dead last in PK% so you obviously need help in that aspect any way you cut it.

I love seeing young guys getting the chance to take the reigns at the NHL level instead of some hack but they arent all gonna become NHLers so you need some veterans to lead the team so it remains a real NHL team.

hall and co wont always be young studs they will age and there needs to be guys to show them the ropes and how to become the leaders. nobody on the oilers can do that, ference isnt a star player but he is an excellent leader type/role model for young guns.

that bottom 6 is definately one paille could crack with ease...not one aside from cogs would i be afraid to waive and youd be better off waiving strudwick off your blueline


again im not lobbying for a trade to happen involving ference or paille becuase theres nobody worth obtaining for what value ference and paille bring (in other words the only guys wanted are more valuable then that package

Marksman 01-19-2011 02:43 AM

For Habs, not interested in Souray after adding Wisniewski short-term and having Subban/Weber longterm. Also hes not an adequate replacement for either Markov or Hamrlik.

Also they need Gomez now even if hes not producing many points with only one good winger hes been playing with.

If resigning Penner will be problem for Oilers, I bet Montreal could help you with that. ;)

Psycho Papa Joe 01-19-2011 08:45 AM

From a Habs perspective, the Souray/Gomez deal might be interesting this summer depending on the Habs options for the 2nd line center spot. I can't see them making the deal right now since none of the available options seem ready to take on Gomez's role.

Pleky Roks 01-19-2011 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan (Post 30309238)
im not an oiler fan... but i think there are a couple deals that make too much sense not to do.

Start with Souray for Gomez
I think the deal makes sense cause Gomez has 3 more years at 7.3 and isnt a legit number 1 on a cup caliber team anymore {if he ever was} Im unsure Plekanec is a legit number 1 either, but he is signed for 5 more years so at the very least he is your number 2. Gomez will kill a team if hes paid 7.3 on a third line.

Edmonton can actually use him as their number 1, cause realistically they are 3 years away from competing for a cup at the very least. Gomez isnt a legit number 1 center as far as talent goes... but he is a winner from the Jersey system that understands what playing good defense leads too. He can get the puck to guys like Hall and Eberle while also serving as a good example how to develop into cup winning type quality hockey players.

Souray obviously is a lost cause in Edmonton... but he was a 20 goal scoring pp monster in Montreal and had a good reputation in their locker room. Possibly he had a legitmate beef in Edmonton? What is done is done... Edmonton has completely destroyed all of Souray's trade value.

Montreal has both Markov and Hamerlik up for UFA this year. Souray can slip into one of their spots if they lose one of them.

I know Edmonton takes on 2 years of extra salary here, but they actually get a leader that will play and help their kids develop, instead of a cancer that has to play in the AHL.

No one will do Edmonton any favors and take Souray without dumping a ton of unwanted salary back on them even next year, cause edmonton has totally screwed themselves on this deal and once a guy goes to the AHL... he is there for the season, cause no one else can recall him without him going through waivers either.

*****************
if anyone wanted to suggest Hemsky be put into the trade signed next year for 4.1 and Montreal give up their first round pick to Edmonton, then sure... why not. But my proposal is just simple gomez for souray
*****************

independent of this deal, I suggest Edmonton take Andrew Ference and Dan Paille off of Boston. Ference is making 2.2 for a couple years and is in the way of Boston making a needed upgrade to their blueline. He does that right to play charity and is a really super quality citizen off the ice... very respected by teammates... a mans man. For a young team needing leadership, Ference would be 100 times upgrade over Strudwick since Strudwick isnt really a legitimate NHL quality player anymore. Ference would be able to play decent 20 mins per night until his contract runs out... and hes from the edmonton area too. thats a bonus.

I throw Paille into the deal cause he simply doesnt have a spot in Boston's top 12 forwards anymore and he is signed for 1 mill for next year. its too much for a 13th forward. Edmonton is in desperate desperate desperate need for some bottom line guys that can actually play quality NHL mins. their pk is horrific. Paille does have some decent skill and will pop you 10-15 goals while giving you high quality pk if you play him on your third line. for a team, that probably doesnt care if it finishes bottom 5 next year and gets even one more great young pick to try to build a cup caliber team with... Paille should have some useful value to fill out a lineup and help prevent so many dishearting blowout loses.

Id be almost willing to give Ference/Paille away for nothing but i am going to ask for Brule back. I know he is overpaid and probably a bust. At best he seems to be a third line agitator now. But he did play with Lucic in Vancouver and I guess they are buddies. I never think its a bad thing to have buddies on a team. makes them more loyal to stick around IMO.

Boston is probably going to go with Horton/Seguin/Caron on Rw next year and Savard/Krecji/Bergeron at center. Brule wouldnt play ahead of any of these guys I guess. Lucic/Wheeler/Marchard have the inside track at the three top LW spots with Colborne the top prospect likely to push for a change.

Brule would be a 4th line guy likely with the B's so I dont care a heck of a lot if we get him or not... but Edmonton has too many underachieving busted high end picks in their lineup and need more lunchpail guys that can actually play. Either Brule or Cogliano should be moved sooner rather then later cause neither is good enough to play top 6... neither is suited for bottom line... and they dont usually end up having great nights when played together on a third line.

my two suggestions arent very sexy and probably will be met with overwhelming apathy or scorn even... but I share them with whoever takes the time to read through this proposal and I will debate if anyone wants a good spirit debate.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Probably the worst suggestion I have ever heard!!! Gomez, a cup winner and former rookie of the year and a huge piece to the Habs roster traded for a washed up, often injured, severely overpaid Souray......HAHAHAHAHA.....surely this is a joke....the Habs would never do that trade in a million year, even if Gomez only got 5 points in 82 games, they would still see that Gomez is worth a lot more than Souray!!

Sheldon Souray will NEVER play in the NHL again.....there I said it. Nobody wants him....he's a big mouth, he can't fight, he can't hit, he can't play defence....all he can do is shoot the puck and we have Wiz to do that.

joestevens29 01-19-2011 09:29 AM

As much as Gomez is what we need, we have him in Horcoff.

We aren't going to take him on especially when his contract is still going when all our kids are up.

I'm not sure Cogliano gets moved now. Renney really likes him and Cogliano's defensive game is getting better every game. He seems to be a solid fit with Jones and Reddox.

Edit: Also our PK is 82% in the last 21 games, so it has come around quite a bit.

joestevens29 01-19-2011 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleky Roks (Post 30311327)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Probably the worst suggestion I have ever heard!!! Gomez, a cup winner and former rookie of the year and a huge piece to the Habs roster traded for a washed up, often injured, severely overpaid Souray......HAHAHAHAHA.....surely this is a joke....the Habs would never do that trade in a million year, even if Gomez only got 5 points in 82 games, they would still see that Gomez is worth a lot more than Souray!!

Sheldon Souray will NEVER play in the NHL again.....there I said it. Nobody wants him....he's a big mouth, he can't fight, he can't hit, he can't play defence....all he can do is shoot the puck and we have Wiz to do that.

He is one of the top non-heavyweight fighters in the league, the problem is he usually hurts himself when he fights.

MeestaDeteta 01-19-2011 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnicks17 (Post 30309406)
One more year of Souray vs. 3 more years of Gomez.

Not a chance we want Gomez on the books when we're re-signing Penner/Hemsky and Hall/Eberle/Paajarvi.


We have no need for Andrew Ference or Dan Paille either. Even without Whitney, our D is fine. Paille really doesn't bring anything unique to the roster either. We aren't in desperate need of bottom 6 players, actually we almost have too many. Also, our PK has been much better lately.

Our D was below average even with Whitney in the line-up. Without him, it's probably one of the worst in the league.

oXo Cube 01-19-2011 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleky Roks (Post 30311327)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Probably the worst suggestion I have ever heard!!! Gomez, a cup winner and former rookie of the year and a huge piece to the Habs roster traded for a washed up, often injured, severely overpaid Souray......HAHAHAHAHA.....surely this is a joke....the Habs would never do that trade in a million year, even if Gomez only got 5 points in 82 games, they would still see that Gomez is worth a lot more than Souray!!

Sheldon Souray will NEVER play in the NHL again.....there I said it. Nobody wants him....he's a big mouth, he can't fight, he can't hit, he can't play defence....all he can do is shoot the puck and we have Wiz to do that.

LOL

are you for real?

NinthSpoke06 01-19-2011 10:34 AM

No thanks from Boston on that deal. Ference is the perfect #4 defense. Sure he may be paid $250,000 too much, but he is a great leader and always stands up for his teammates. I'll pay him that extra $250K for that.

Coach Parker 01-19-2011 11:08 AM

I'm sorry but I do watch Edmonton games all the time and until the rookie 'future stars' start playing like 'stars' (mid next season at earliest) that team is a mess. They are going in the right direction, but as of right now they are a very poor team.

They are soft.
They are disorganized at times.
They have a slow transition game.
They are 6 points behind the Leafs and Senators.
They are tied in 29th with the Islanders.

This team could use a players like Gomez, Ference and Paille. Telling me that what they have is good enough suggests that 29th is good enough for this year and next.

joestevens29 01-19-2011 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Parker (Post 30312876)
I'm sorry but I do watch Edmonton games all the time and until the rookie 'future stars' start playing like 'stars' (mid next season at earliest) that team is a mess. They are going in the right direction, but as of right now they are a very poor team.

They are soft.
They are disorganized at times.
They have a slow transition game.
They are 6 points behind the Leafs and Senators.
They are tied in 29th with the Islanders.

This team could use a players like Gomez, Ference and Paille. Telling me that what they have is good enough suggests that 29th is good enough for this year and next.

Gomez's contract simply won't fit in Edmonton. Not one GM in the NHL would acquire him when they already have a similar player with a lessor contract. Edmonton will just look for a Gomez for a 1/3-1/2 the price on the open market.

Lint07 01-19-2011 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleky Roks (Post 30311327)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Probably the worst suggestion I have ever heard!!! Gomez, a cup winner and former rookie of the year and a huge piece to the Habs roster traded for a washed up, often injured, severely overpaid Souray......HAHAHAHAHA.....surely this is a joke....the Habs would never do that trade in a million year, even if Gomez only got 5 points in 82 games, they would still see that Gomez is worth a lot more than Souray!!

Sheldon Souray will NEVER play in the NHL again.....there I said it. Nobody wants him....he's a big mouth, he can't fight, he can't hit, he can't play defence....all he can do is shoot the puck and we have Wiz to do that.

So the guy takes the time to write a well written proposal explaining the reasons behind it and that's the way you reply?

God I hate obnoxious fans like you. :shakehead

Coach Parker 01-19-2011 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joestevens29 (Post 30313001)
Gomez's contract simply won't fit in Edmonton. Not one GM in the NHL would acquire him when they already have a similar player with a lessor contract. Edmonton will just look for a Gomez for a 1/3-1/2 the price on the open market.

Fair enough. Also, I'd imagine that having him on the books when you are trying to sign Eberle, Pjaarvi and Hall could be an issue.

I think the OP had a good idea regarding adding some leadership and skill on the PK. Perhaps the Montreal deal isn't the best, but I see merit in the Boston deal. Believe it or not, the Boston forward group is hard to crack and I wouldn't doubt players like Caron, Colborne, Paille, Arniel and perhaps even Hamill would be getting time in Edmonton on the 3rd and 4th line.


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