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-   -   Proposal: Montreal - Vancouver (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=866786)

BigHabs 01-19-2011 01:58 PM

Montreal - Vancouver
 
Montreal

Kristo/Maxwell/Palushaj
Spacek
1st or 2nd round pick

for

Vancouver

Ballard
Alberts
Hansen

This would be a perfect deal to help the Nucks as it would free up around... 2.25mill in cap space to help with Salo coming back.

Ballard has really under performed this year and he is signed long term. He is 28 which is kind of what the Habs are looking for in age. He has a list of up to 7 teams he will accept a trade to.

Alberts has kind of been an alright dman in Vancouver. I think Alberts would fit in well in the Eastern conference with the Habs who are a more defensive squad. He would also be decent insurance in case of injuries. I like his size as well.

Hansen would be tremendous help to our lineup which has taken a big hit from last nights games. Hansen could be an instant impact on our team, plus he could play along side fellow countryman Eller.

Vancouver would get Kristo who is a scoring winger, who could make their squad in the next 2 years or so. With Torres and Samuelsson both probably gone by then. Kristo I think could be a welcome addition. I figured Vancouver would be looking at wingers more than a center prospect. They get cap space and they get a vet dman as well who can help anchor the blueline with a big shot along with the return of Salo. They also could get a 1st or 2nd round pick which ever evens out the deal more.

If you think more is needed or what ever just mention it.

Burrows Sedin Sedin
Raymond Kesler Samuelsson
Torres Maholtra Tambellini
Glass Volpatti Bolduc

ex. Shirokov

Hamhuis Salo
Ehrhoff Bieksa
Spacek Edler

ex. Rome

Cammalleri Plekanec Kostitsyn
Pacioretty Gomez Gionta
Hansen Eller Pouliot
Moen Halpern Darche

Ex. Pyatt

Hamrlik Wisniewski
Gill Subban
Ballard Alberts

ex. Weber

Scottrockztheworld* 01-19-2011 02:17 PM

No


Ballard hasn't played to expectation but that happens with no PP time and playing 15 minutes a night. Just because he hasn't lived up to expectations doesn't mean you should trade him.

Alberts has been good as a number 6 guy but MG likes DEPTH and if we trade Alberts AND Ballard that means we lose a lot of our defensive depth.... and Hansen is easily one of the hardest workers on the forecheck, killing Penalties.


What Im trying to say is while this looks like a fair deal I don't think Vancouver wants to move that many pieces from their (tied for) #1 in the NHL team

Winroba 01-19-2011 02:22 PM

Canucks don't need to make a trade to clear cap space to bring in Salo

Also you're stuck with Spacek's garbage contract forever

bleuetbio 01-19-2011 02:28 PM

Hell nooo.... and apparently from both sides.

Please Gamblor, try to be original just a bit

Hi-wayman 01-19-2011 02:31 PM

So it would seem you think the Habs should be the Canadian cup contender this year rather than the Canucks.

As for your trade suggesion. No thanks

BigHabs 01-19-2011 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winroba (Post 30316412)
Canucks don't need to make a trade to clear cap space to bring in Salo

Also you're stuck with Spacek's garbage contract forever

If forever means until the end of next season than yeah you could be right.

I didn't know if you guys wanted to hold on to Ballard for another 4 years are 4.2mill.

Spacek has been putting up decent numbers and a great plus minus, playing 3-6 dman minutes. He is producing more than Ballard and has a great +/-. Its just the Habs are probably going to be looking for dman with faster legs on them thats all.

Spacek is also a great dman in the playoffs, he and Hamrlik showed what they could do with blocking shots and being big bodies on the backed.

So I like how....

Spacek 1g and 14a = 15pts and +/- of 6 at 3.833 until the end of next year.

is a garbage of a contract compared to

Ballard 2g and 2a = 4pts and +/- of 4 at 4.2mill with a limited NTC for the next 4 years after this one.

And if you bring up games played, its not my fault Ballard has been a healthy scratch a few times this year, and Spacek has been playing all year round, on a supposely much weaker defense than the "tied #1 NHL team in the league".

Its just a proposal and everyone from Vancouver comes out like it happened. I was just wondering what they thought would be the value of the trade and if it was fair. Not that ITS DISMANTLING THE TEAM and such. I figured you guys wanted the extra money for the return of Salo. I know all the send bodies down the AHL and such but your still going to be tight against the cap and what happens in case of injuries and all those bodies were sent back down to the AHL?

I just thought Vancouver could use the cap, the vet dman, a early pick and a very good prospect. Doing all this and still remaining a cup contender. Sorry for proposing.

Winroba 01-19-2011 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblor506 (Post 30316699)
If forever means until the end of next season than yeah you could be right.

I didn't know if you guys wanted to hold on to Ballard for another 4 years are 4.2mill.

Spacek has been putting up decent numbers and a great plus minus, playing 3-6 dman minutes. He is producing more than Ballard and has a great +/-. Its just the Habs are probably going to be looking for dman with faster legs on them thats all.

Spacek is also a great dman in the playoffs, he and Hamrlik showed what they could do with blocking shots and being big bodies on the backed.

So I like how....

Spacek 1g and 14a = 15pts and +/- of 6 at 3.833 until the end of next year.

is a garbage of a contract compared to

Ballard 2g and 2a = 4pts and +/- of 4 at 4.2mill with a limited NTC for the next 4 years after this one.

And if you bring up games played, its not my fault Ballard has been a healthy scratch a few times this year, and Spacek has been playing all year round, on a supposely much weaker defense than the ties #1 NHL team in the league.

Ballard is 28 and he was scratched because he couldn't walk all summer and had a concussion as soon as he was getting back up to speed.

If we move Ballard than we only have 4 guys signed next year (Edler, Hamhuis, Parent & Rome) and only 2 will probably be on the lineup next year. Ballard is the safety net if Erhoff, Bieksa & Salo all go to FA/retire.

You also have to keep in mind the minutes they play. Ballard is currently playing 16 - 18 mins a night because I don't think he's completely healthy from the off-season. We've already got a lot of scoring defenders (Erhoff, Bieksa, Edler) and Ballard is good because he is extremely physical and wears down other teams.

Also, he's been playing full time with Andrew Alberts, who has been an extremely good #6 but he's not nearly a top quality partner that Salo will be when he returns and Alberts is put in the press box.

We don't need cap space and more often than not, no trades at all is the best option. Especially since the Canucks are tied for #1 without a fully healthy lineup.

chopkins 01-19-2011 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winroba (Post 30316870)
Ballard is 28 and he was scratched because he couldn't walk all summer and had a concussion as soon as he was getting back up to speed.

If we move Ballard than we only have 4 guys signed next year (Edler, Hamhuis, Parent & Rome) and only 2 will probably be on the lineup next year. Ballard is the safety net if Erhoff, Bieksa & Salo all go to FA/retire.

You also have to keep in mind the minutes they play. Ballard is currently playing 16 - 18 mins a night because I don't think he's completely healthy from the off-season. We've already got a lot of scoring defenders (Erhoff, Bieksa, Edler) and Ballard is good because he is extremely physical and wears down other teams.

Also, he's been playing full time with Andrew Alberts, who has been an extremely good #6 but he's not nearly a top quality partner that Salo will be when he returns and Alberts is put in the press box.

We don't need cap space and more often than not, no trades at all is the best option. Especially since the Canucks are tied for #1 without a fully healthy lineup.

Exactly. Ballard hasn't been given a fair shot this year because of injuries. First, they keep him out of the lineup until he's healthy, but when he gets back, guys like Edler, Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, and Bieksa are all playing great at the same time. Who are you going to give more icetime to? The four guys already playing well, or the guy who's missed the past month?

Losing Ehrhoff this offseason could be a blessing in disguise for the Canucks, if Gillis decides to go that route. Ballard will instantly become our #3 defender, which means 20-25 minutes a game. His contract looks bad right now, and it might turn out to be in the long run, but he needs to be given a fair shot first.

Winroba 01-19-2011 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthVanCanuck (Post 30317164)
Exactly. Ballard hasn't been given a fair shot this year because of injuries. First, they keep him out of the lineup until he's healthy, but when he gets back, guys like Edler, Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, and Bieksa are all playing great at the same time. Who are you going to give more icetime to? The four guys already playing well, or the guy who's missed the past month?

Losing Ehrhoff this offseason could be a blessing in disguise for the Canucks, if Gillis decides to go that route. Ballard will instantly become our #3 defender, which means 20-25 minutes a game. His contract looks bad right now, and it might turn out to be in the long run, but he needs to be given a fair shot first.

Pretty sure MG re-signs Erhoff but lets BXA & Salo go. Ballard will be put in a handy #4 position averaging 20 mins of ice time per game.

Joey Moss 01-19-2011 03:05 PM

I think Maxwell has been in every one of your proposals.

TheBuriedHab 01-19-2011 03:19 PM

Gamblor, Stop just stop. No more proposals from you ok buddy? They are all awful and the exact same players are involved. Thanks in advance

FanHabtic 01-19-2011 03:21 PM

Why would Vancouver weaken their team in a year that they are competing for the cup? This proposal is idiotic in terms of its timing.

keslehr* 01-19-2011 04:28 PM

We're going for a cup. Why would we trade 2 defensemen when we have a history of D injuries in the playoffs. Picks and prospects, while nice to have, aren't the goal.

Bgav 01-19-2011 04:36 PM

Noooo thankkkssss

keslehr* 01-19-2011 04:37 PM

I'd do Raymond for Moen + pick, and then bring up Hodgson for the playoffs

settinguptheplay 01-19-2011 05:23 PM

Teams with SC aspirations do not trade away 3 roster players for futures.

No comment on the proposal because it is a non starter from the get go.

Bourne Endeavor 01-19-2011 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilGagner89 (Post 30317267)
I think Maxwell has been in every one of your proposals.

He is in every proposal. This kid posts the same thing to different teams at least once a week. Frankly, the mods ought to ban him from this section of the site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keslehr (Post 30319111)
I'd do Raymond for Moen + pick, and then bring up Hodgson for the playoffs

As a Canuck fan, I think you are insane. As a Hab fan, I would toss you a first and Moen for Raymond in that case.

JuniorNelson 01-19-2011 06:07 PM

This isn't unreasonable, really. The OP must factor in Gillis' predisposition to do no trades.

Last season the Canucks had a solid roster that was winning. They became devastated by injuries but were still winning. Instead of capitalizing on career years from thier entire forward group, they aquired Alberts (who didn't fit in well). Thier needs were known at the deadline but Gillis watched from the sidelines. As predicted, the Canucks couldn't muster a charge against Chicago and actually ran out of defencemen.

Expecting this same GM to do blockbuster trades is a long shot at best, especially since he isn't very good at it (O'Brien, Ballard trades were both suspect at thier inception and have proven to be very iffy over time).

Gillis is a creature of the offseason, an architect rather than a tinkerer. He doesn't give up on players, either. Bieksa was crapola for years before this season and Gillis never shopped him. Ballard isn't in any danger of being moved this year or next, either.

Until the Canucks get into serious trouble (three broken legs on the defence type trouble) they will not make changes.

NFITO 01-19-2011 09:04 PM

every time I read one of your proposals, I keep thinking that you have very little grasp of the Canucks and the team that Gillis is trying to build, yet you seem to come up with constant proposals for them... you'd think that reading the many responses to your proposals, which always get turned down, you'd have a better grasp of how Gillis is trying to build this team?

Your comment here just proves that you still don't understand:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblor506 (Post 30316699)
Spacek has been putting up decent numbers and a great plus minus, playing 3-6 dman minutes. He is producing more than Ballard and has a great +/-. Its just the Habs are probably going to be looking for dman with faster legs on them thats all.

This is what Gillis has made so obvious in trying to build his defense. Every move that has been made so far has been to improve the defense's skating and transition game... why then would he have any interest in an aging, slow Spacek?

He let Ohlund go to FA and traded for Ehrhoff for this same reason... he let Mitchell walk in FA and added Ballard and Hamhuis, again for the same reason. Do you really think that it makes any sense now to go the opposite direction, especially when the team has shown improvements with such moves?

And Hansen and Alberts are also both important pieces to the team. Hansen has been excellent this season and has played in many different roles, moving from the 4th line to the 2nd and seems to provide a spark on whatever line he's on... he's not the type of player you deal, especially at his cap hit... his value to the Canucks is simply much higher than it would be on the market. And Alberts, hopefully slides to the #7 position with Salo in the lineup, is still a valuable piece... he's still the most aggressive dman on the blueline and has adjusted well to the team this season... and anyone who has followed the Canucks (or the NHL for that matter), knows how valuable a #7 guy can be in the playoffs... injuries happen and depth is necessary.

And finally, this is a team that is tied for #1 in the NHL... this is their window now. Why would such a team have any interest in balancing a trade by picking up draft picks or prospects? why would such a team move any important pieces at all in a season when the team is playing so well? They don't need more forward prospects - there are already several good prospects in the system and a roster that is locked up long-term... when Torres, Samuelsson, etc leave, we still have to find spots for Hodgson, Shirokov, Schroeder, and Rodin - who are all developing well and aren't more than 1-3 years from getting a roster spot.

Every one of your Canuck proposals here have been a fail... consider how this team is being built and their current goals and then make a proposal based on that. They don't want slow aging dmen... they don't need forward prospects, as they are already stacked with them... and when the team is playing so well, they won't be making any big changes to the team... hell Gillis has already said this - that he doesn't like making any trades if it's not necessary, and most of the movement you'll see from the club happens in the offseason.


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