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sgrignoli 01-20-2011 08:19 PM

Narrow Skates...Please Help!
 
Just got ccm u+ 08, bough it online. The width is D,

It's hurting the sides of my feet, a couple inches from the heal. I baked them already, will this stick..or will it feel more comfortable after a few uses?

Is there a trick i can do with my laces to help this?

Please list all possible solutions or recommendations.

Thanks for any help!!

SouthpawTRK 01-21-2011 12:24 AM

I would say that if you are saying that they are hurting your feet, they are most likely too narrow for your feet. The baking process helps speed up the break in process, but does not guarantee that it will make your skates fit like a glove. If the skates are actually not hurting your feet, but rather you have some hot spots, you might be able to get the skates punched out. The skates will break in over time the more you skate, but your feet may not be able to stand the pain for that to happen. If you have the luxury of an accessible hockey shop, you may want to try some other skates on (and contact the online retailer that you bought your CCM's at to see what they might be able to do for you. Also, I wouldn't do anymore to the skates until you contact the online retailer). When I was looking for skates, I tried on one pair of CCM's (EE width) that hurt my feet. I also tried on some RBK's (D width) and they fit way better. Hopefully this helps!

ponder 01-21-2011 12:50 AM

Sorry, I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear, but this is why you should always buy skates from an actual shop where you can try on a tonne of pairs and get them properly fitted. Sticks, protective equipment, etc., no problem buying those things online, but skate fit is so finicky and so important that I can't understand how anyone can buy skates online, it's just a massive gamble. You could try baking them again, and having them punched out, but that will only work if the fit is just slightly off, not if it's way off.

Also, I'm guessing these are the $600 2008 U+ Pros that are on sale online for $200? If it's the same ones, the reason they're so heavily on sale is that a tonne of these skates have serious durability issues, on a lot of them the outers will very quickly (like within the first few weeks of use) start to bubble and delaminate. The 2009 U+ Pros (the "reloaded" ones) fixed the durability issues and are real good skates, which is why you don't see them so heavily on sale. On the bright side, if your pair starts to delaminate quickly maybe you can send them in and get the 2009 U+ pros in the proper size/width as replacements?

If something is on sale online for like 75% off there's almost always a reason. The good skates only sell for slightly less online than in stores, and when you take into account the free baking/sharpening that you get when buying from a brick and mortar shop the saving are often minimal (for good, non-defective skates).

canuck44 01-21-2011 12:50 AM

I had a hell of a time breaking in my old grafs before. The idiot at the shop must've been on crack that day because he gave me 8N, I just got a pair of bauers at 6.5EE. Anyway it took me probably close to 50 skates before I got really comfortable in those things. Maybe more.

ponder 01-21-2011 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuck44 (Post 30355511)
I had a hell of a time breaking in my old grafs before. The idiot at the shop must've been on crack that day because he gave me 8N, I just got a pair of bauers at 6.5EE. Anyway it took me probably close to 50 skates before I got really comfortable in those things. Maybe more.

Yeah, when getting fitted at a shop it's VERY important to go to a good shop with employees who know what they're doing. You should also have a good idea yourself of what a good fit is. Some things to keep in mind:

- when done up your heel should be totally locked in place, you shouldn't be able to lift it off the insole

- length-wise your toes should just sort of lightly "feather" the toe cap when standing straight (with the skate laced up and your heel locked in place), so that when you bend your knees/ankles into a skating stance your toes just pull back from the end of the skate (normally this means about 1.5 sizes smaller than your shoes size, but it depends on the skate)

- the overall fit should be very snug, with basically no negative space (except for maybe around the toes), but not too tight, there shouldn't be pressure points or a feeling that your foot is being squeezed. If you start with a regular width (D or R, depending on the brand) and they're too roomy, try a narrow width (N), or if they're squeezing your feet try a wide width (W, E or EE, depending on the brand). If you can't get a snug-but-not-squeezing fit regardless of the width, try a different model/brand

- you should also consider the "depth/volume" of the skate, which you can test with the "pencil test." Put the skate on, pull out the laces, and push the tongue way forward, out of the way. With your foot in and the heel kicked to the back, put a pencil across the 3rd eyelet from the top. If the pencil just barely touches your foot, or almost touches it, then the skates are the right depth. If you can't put the pencil across the eyelets without hitting your foot, the skates aren't deep enough, and if the pencil is real far away from your foot, the skates are too deep. For example, this guy is trying on skates that are not deep enough, because the pencil can't run across the 3rd eyelets from the top without hitting his foot:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...BQKVCeUFng&t=1

- finally, make sure the insole feels good on your arch, not too big and not too small. If it doesn't feel right, but you otherwise really like the fit of the skate, you can always replace it with a different insole like "Superfeet"



If the skates fit well based on these 5 points (heel lock, length, "snugness/width", depth/volume and insole), and they're in your price range, buy the suckers and get them baked. But make sure to try on A LOT of pairs and pick whichever one fits best overall, you might think a pair fits you pretty well only to find that another pair fits way better.

denace 01-21-2011 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponder (Post 30356744)
Yeah, when getting fitted at a shop it's VERY important to go to a good shop with employees who know what they're doing. You should also have a good idea yourself of what a good fit is. Some things to keep in mind:

- when done up your heel should be totally locked in place, you shouldn't be able to lift it off the insole

- length-wise your toes should just sort of lightly "feather" the toe cap when standing straight (with the skate laced up and your heel locked in place), so that when you bend your knees/ankles into a skating stance your toes just pull back from the end of the skate (normally this means about 1.5 sizes smaller than your shoes size, but it depends on the skate)

- the overall fit should be very snug, with basically no negative space (except for maybe around the toes), but not too tight, there shouldn't be pressure points or a feeling that your foot is being squeezed. If you start with a regular width (D or R, depending on the brand) and they're too roomy, try a narrow width (N), or if they're squeezing your feet try a wide width (W, E or EE, depending on the brand). If you can't get a snug-but-not-squeezing fit regardless of the width, try a different model/brand

- you should also consider the "depth/volume" of the skate, which you can test with the "pencil test." Put the skate on, pull out the laces, and push the tongue way forward, out of the way. With your foot in and the heel kicked to the back, put a pencil across the 3rd eyelet from the top. If the pencil just barely touches your foot, or almost touches it, then the skates are the right depth. If you can't put the pencil across the eyelets without hitting your foot, the skates aren't deep enough, and if the pencil is real far away from your foot, the skates are too deep. For example, this guy is trying on skates that are not deep enough, because the pencil can't run across the 3rd eyelets from the top without hitting his foot:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...BQKVCeUFng&t=1

- finally, make sure the insole feels good on your arch, not too big and not too small. If it doesn't feel right, but you otherwise really like the fit of the skate, you can always replace it with a different insole like "Superfeet"



If the skates fit well based on these 5 points (heel lock, length, "snugness/width", depth/volume and insole), and they're in your price range, buy the suckers and get them baked. But make sure to try on A LOT of pairs and pick whichever one fits best overall, you might think a pair fits you pretty well only to find that another pair fits way better.


Great post ! Thanks, I'll use that this weekend on my skatefitting mission :D

canuck44 01-21-2011 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponder (Post 30356744)
Yeah, when getting fitted at a shop it's VERY important to go to a good shop with employees who know what they're doing. You should also have a good idea yourself of what a good fit is. Some things to keep in mind:

I went to a proper hockey shop and it's probably the most popular chain of hockey stores in town. I'm not sure what the hell happened that day. I was young (14?) so I had no clue what was going on.

And as for the toe grazing the cap thing, it's not to everyone's liking. I've met plenty of people that simply didn't like any touching so they went a little bit bigger. I'm guilty of this as well. I went half a size bigger because I didn't like the tip of my toes touching. With that said, when I put my foot all the way forward, it's not even a full finger width in the heel of the skate so I'm not too concerned.

elevation 01-21-2011 11:14 AM

a finger width? wow...I'd say quarter to half a number to long...maybe your boot's toecap or -width is to narrow..different skates(lines of brands) have different variations of heel/toe/volume 'characteristics' although labeled as D/N, (E/W..)
btw, do the pencil test also with your forefoot/volume (3-5 eyelet) not only on your instep...lacebite!...also check a wide or uneven lacepattern (...after bakening)

ponder 01-21-2011 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuck44 (Post 30358973)
I went to a proper hockey shop and it's probably the most popular chain of hockey stores in town. I'm not sure what the hell happened that day. I was young (14?) so I had no clue what was going on.

And as for the toe grazing the cap thing, it's not to everyone's liking. I've met plenty of people that simply didn't like any touching so they went a little bit bigger. I'm guilty of this as well. I went half a size bigger because I didn't like the tip of my toes touching. With that said, when I put my foot all the way forward, it's not even a full finger width in the heel of the skate so I'm not too concerned.

Your biggest toe (or a few toes, if it's an "anatomically shaped" toe cap) should only just be slightly feathering the toe cap when you're standing up totally straight, which is something you should really never being doing on the ice anyways. When you bend at the knees/ankles your heel pulls back deeper into your boot, and your toes pull away from the cap so that they don't touch at all.
Quote:

Originally Posted by elevation (Post 30360283)
a finger width? wow...I'd say quarter to half a number to long...maybe your boot's toecap or -width is to narrow..different skates(lines of brands) have different variations of heel/toe/volume 'characteristics' although labeled as D/N, (E/W..)
btw, do the pencil test also with your forefoot/volume (3-5 eyelet) not only on your instep...lacebite!...also check a wide or uneven lacepattern (...after bakening)

And yeah, good tip re: the pencil test, can definitely do it on more than just the 3rd eyelet (from the top). And yeah, toe caps are a bit weird, some people like a small cap with a really snug fit, so you can barely move your toes, while some people like lots of wiggle room at the toes, it's just personal preference. But other than the toe, every other part of your foot must be held snugly by the skates.

Jarick 01-21-2011 02:41 PM

To the OP, you can possibly have the skates punched/stretched where it hurts to relieve pressure and pain. It's better to be too narrow than too wide for that reason.

ponder 01-21-2011 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denace (Post 30358002)
Great post ! Thanks, I'll use that this weekend on my skatefitting mission :D

Glad my procrastination through HF boards could actually be somewhat useful :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuck44 (Post 30358973)
I went to a proper hockey shop and it's probably the most popular chain of hockey stores in town. I'm not sure what the hell happened that day. I was young (14?) so I had no clue what was going on.

And as for the toe grazing the cap thing, it's not to everyone's liking. I've met plenty of people that simply didn't like any touching so they went a little bit bigger. I'm guilty of this as well. I went half a size bigger because I didn't like the tip of my toes touching. With that said, when I put my foot all the way forward, it's not even a full finger width in the heel of the skate so I'm not too concerned.

Even great hockey shops can unfortunately sometimes have terrible employees who don't have a clue what they're doing. As an adult you can inform yourself and really know exactly what you're looking for, but as a kid you're generally just screwed in these situations.

As for skate length, your biggest toe (or a few toes, if it's an "anatomically shaped" toe cap) should only just be slightly feathering the toe cap when you're standing up totally straight, which is something you should really never being doing on the ice anyways. When you bend at the knees/ankles your heel pulls back deeper into your boot, and your toes pull away from the cap so that they don't touch at all. But yeah, it sounds like you don't have too much extra room, maybe a half size bigger than what I'm suggesting, and if the skate fits snugly everywhere else that isn't a big deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elevation (Post 30360283)
a finger width? wow...I'd say quarter to half a number to long...maybe your boot's toecap or -width is to narrow..different skates(lines of brands) have different variations of heel/toe/volume 'characteristics' although labeled as D/N, (E/W..)
btw, do the pencil test also with your forefoot/volume (3-5 eyelet) not only on your instep...lacebite!...also check a wide or uneven lacepattern (...after bakening)

Good tip re: the pencil test, you can definitely do it on more than just the 3rd eyelet (from the top), the 3rd, 4th and 5th eyelets should all be at least quite close to "passing" the pencil test. And yeah, toe caps are a bit weird, some people like a small cap with a really snug fit, so you can barely move your toes, while some people like lots of wiggle room at the toes, it's just personal preference. But other than the toe, every other part of your foot must be held snugly by the skates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarick (Post 30363786)
To the OP, you can possibly have the skates punched/stretched where it hurts to relieve pressure and pain. It's better to be too narrow than too wide for that reason.

Indeed, if it's just a bit tight in a few spots it's not a big deal, if it's way too tight all over you're kind of screwed.

Thresh 01-21-2011 05:00 PM

Personally i'm having trouble with my Missions. It was my second skate yesterday so they've still got a long way to go in the break-in process, but the arches are causing me quite a lot of pain. I either have to bare with the feeling of cut circulation or skate with my laces loose which is giving me no ankle support or confidence on the ice.

I think my gut instinct (even as a noob) is telling me the skates are too narrow, but i don't think it's an impossible fix and i can't afford another pair really, so i was wondering if there's actually a process that can widen a skate?

This video i saw said you can widen the shape by standing up when the skates are moulding to your foot during the baking process. Is that true? And how much would that help?

http://www.icewarehouse.com/learning...ml?ccode=LC001

My skates are Mission Fuel 90AGs if that makes any difference, so i think they're leather rather than a composite. I haven't baked them yet because i'm afraid if i do it myself that even though i know what i'm doing, as i'm a first-timer i could mess them up, but the closest LHS is ages away and the whole trip is expensive.

Any advice?

ponder 01-21-2011 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thresh (Post 30366395)
Personally i'm having trouble with my Missions. It was my second skate yesterday so they've still got a long way to go in the break-in process, but the arches are causing me quite a lot of pain. I either have to bare with the feeling of cut circulation or skate with my laces loose which is giving me no ankle support or confidence on the ice.

I think my gut instinct (even as a noob) is telling me the skates are too narrow, but i don't think it's an impossible fix and i can't afford another pair really, so i was wondering if there's actually a process that can widen a skate?

This video i saw said you can widen the shape by standing up when the skates are moulding to your foot during the baking process. Is that true? And how much would that help?

http://www.icewarehouse.com/learning...ml?ccode=LC001

My skates are Mission Fuel 90AGs if that makes any difference, so i think they're leather rather than a composite. I haven't baked them yet because i'm afraid if i do it myself that even though i know what i'm doing, as i'm a first-timer i could mess them up, but the closest LHS is ages away and the whole trip is expensive.

Any advice?

That actually makes sense, your feet widen when you stand up and put pressure on them, so that should help widen the skates. You can bake skates more than once too, sometime if you still have problems after the first bake a second bake can help.

One thing to note, when following instructions in this video make sure you set your oven to 175 FAHRENHEIT, which is like 80 in celsius! Also, can be worth flipping the skates over half way through (at about the 3-4 minute mark) to make sure you've heated them evenly.

You can also get your skates "punched", where they will literally force out any pressure points, but that needs to be done by the pros in a shop.

Finally, for new skaters arch pain is super common, and can have more to do with the fact that your feet are super tense and just not used to skates/skating than the actual fit of the skates themselves. Pretty much all new skaters have arch pain, even in skates that fit reasonably well.

elevation 01-21-2011 08:37 PM

I wouldn't stand up during the cooling, not even as a lightweighter...there are only few skates you can or even should do this, and this would be, or was at least with my KORs, instructed by the heating manual. Some soles seem to get stressed to much by standing up, holders may bend...and I wouldn't pull the laces as 'upwards' like in this clip...a good stretching or punching job helps a lot, they heating them too...you don't have pain all along your sides,toe area, arch, instep, blisters? Lucky..hehe ;-) ...The heel will definitely brake in soon...did you get fitted, or had a vector before? Did you try on different boots? Do you feel, it's the right fit?...you COULD try to rebake them, that would open the heel, even when you're not standing up; and stressing the boot a lot! I would just skate in them some more times before you bake them right again...the boot may be a bit too stiff now, try to unlace the top, your foot could flex more and opens the heel faster.


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