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-   -   Speculation: Value of Mark Mancari (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=869205)

DrChill 01-25-2011 02:37 PM

Value of Mark Mancari
 
Hey Vancouver fan here. wondering what the Value on Mancari is and if you guys have any info on him.
Would a late pick get him for us from you or what?

Thanks for the input.

enrothorne 01-25-2011 02:55 PM

How about a 267th round pick in 3497? He's basically done with the Sabres after the end of the season.

drinking bleach irl 01-25-2011 02:57 PM

Vancouver's AHL hero should do it.

DrChill 01-25-2011 04:00 PM

To Buffalo:
5th round pick
Taylor Ellington



To Vancouver
Mark Mancari

CHRDANHUTCH 01-25-2011 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrChill (Post 30456793)
To Buffalo:
5th round pick
Taylor Ellington



To Vancouver
Mark Mancari

:laugh:


and what happens if the Manitoba Moose switch affiliations or drop Vancouver, or are relocated out of Manitoba, DrChill?

static80 01-25-2011 11:18 PM

Mancari will most likely be moved in a package deal at the deadline, if at all.

If not, he will probably re-sign with Buffalo on another 1 year deal.
He hasn't been given his fair due here in Buffalo as far as time to prove himself with the big club. Many fans will say he has, look at the games played in a season, he only had one stretch of more than 3 games, couple years back.
He's been in Regier's doghouse for a couple of years now.

With new ownership coming in, he'll probably end up on line 3 or 4 RW next season for a full season.

JOHNBOY 01-25-2011 11:31 PM

7th round pick should do it...

Thorton02 01-26-2011 07:49 AM

To Vancouver:
Mancari
Connolly

To Buffalo:
future consideration

Zip15 01-26-2011 08:42 AM

Why do people keep saying he's in Regier's doghouse? First off, even assuming he is in someone's doghouse, Regier isn't the vindictive one in this organization. That would be one Larry Quinn. Second, how many times did Regier call-up Mancari and pass over Ennis and Gerbe last season, the season after his quasi-holdout? At least a couple. Also, wasn't he the first call-up this season? If not, he was second. The organization is just taking a look at other players right now. Both Gragnani and Byron earned their call-ups (not to mention they needed a center, which is why they called up Byron). If we need another forward call-up after the break, I bet Mancari gets the look after his recent scoring bonanza.

And, no, he won't be going anywhere after this season, unless he goes off to Europe and all but gives up on any hope for a NHL career in the near future. He's still RFA after the season

If Mancari is going to stick in the NHL, he's going to have to do it as a bottom-6 forward who uses his size to his advantage. He's a big man who doesn't always play big. He'll need to change that. If he keeps his head down and closes this season well, and possibly performs well in a late-season call-up, I could see the team considering giving him a one-way league minimum deal to be a 13th/14th forward. I think a good playoff run with the Pirates could enhance that opportunity.

joshjull 01-26-2011 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by static80 (Post 30469588)
Mancari will most likely be moved in a package deal at the deadline, if at all.

If not, he will probably re-sign with Buffalo on another 1 year deal.
He hasn't been given his fair due here in Buffalo as far as time to prove himself with the big club. Many fans will say he has, look at the games played in a season, he only had one stretch of more than 3 games, couple years back.
He's been in Regier's doghouse for a couple of years now.

Mancari has to force the team keep him in the lineup. Play at a level that makes it necessary to keep him in the lineup.

Quote:

With new ownership coming in, he'll probably end up on line 3 or 4 RW next season for a full season
Why is new ownership going to make Mancari a 3rd or 4th liner?


I really don't buy the idea that Mancari hasn't become a regular due to being in Regier's doghouse. But regardless of that Mancari still has to beat out other options to make the roster as a RW; Pommer, Stafford, Kaleta, McCormick and Kassian. Why would we want Mancari in the lineup at the expense of any of these players?


I'm not saying Mancari can't become a NHL regular. But I do disagree with the idea that he hasn't been given a fair shake with the Sabres or that he deserves to have a 3rd/4th line RW spot handed to him.

Montag DP 01-26-2011 09:24 AM

Mancari has had plenty of chances in recent years. At times he's played well, but IMO not well enough to warrant him staying in the lineup over other up-and-coming players. I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up somewhere else in the near future.

Chainshot 01-26-2011 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 30472811)
Why do people keep saying he's in Regier's doghouse? First off, even assuming he is in someone's doghouse, Regier isn't the vindictive one in this organization. That would be one Larry Quinn. Second, how many times did Regier call-up Mancari and pass over Ennis and Gerbe last season, the season after his quasi-holdout? At least a couple. Also, wasn't he the first call-up this season? If not, he was second. The organization is just taking a look at other players right now. Both Gragnani and Byron earned their call-ups (not to mention they needed a center, which is why they called up Byron). If we need another forward call-up after the break, I bet Mancari gets the look after his recent scoring bonanza.

And, no, he won't be going anywhere after this season, unless he goes off to Europe and all but gives up on any hope for a NHL career in the near future. He's still RFA after the season

If Mancari is going to stick in the NHL, he's going to have to do it as a bottom-6 forward who uses his size to his advantage. He's a big man who doesn't always play big. He'll need to change that. If he keeps his head down and closes this season well, and possibly performs well in a late-season call-up, I could see the team considering giving him a one-way league minimum deal to be a 13th/14th forward. I think a good playoff run with the Pirates could enhance that opportunity.

He could take a cue from how Gerbe has performed this year -- put in a dogged effort shift-on-shift and the icetime will flow. Mark seems often times to be caught between roles as he moves from top line, top PP scorer in the AHL up to limited minute role player in the NHL on most of his callups. Some nights, he has had it figured out. Others, not as much.

He has some touch with the puck, that big shot, and a good sized frame. If he has, as it seems, adjusted his attitude about how to make the team and shows more willingness to impose his size on his next recall (which he's clearly earned with his latest goal blitz)... there is still some chance of him being in their near-future plans.

LHJMQFAN 01-26-2011 09:32 AM

At the end of this season Mancari will be free and can go wherever he chooses to... so why would any team give up a choice or a player for someone they can get for free in July?:yo:

static80 01-26-2011 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 30473258)
Mancari has to force the team keep him in the lineup. Play at a level that makes it necessary to keep him in the lineup.

Agreed

Quote:

Why is new ownership going to make Mancari a 3rd or 4th liner?
Mr. Pegula's transition team will review the "entire" situation with the club, including Mancari's. With how he has performed at the farm team level, and given the clubs current situation, I can fully see them giving him a 20-40 game opportunity to truly see what they have, something that has "NEVER" been given by the current regime.

Quote:

I really don't buy the idea that Mancari hasn't become a regular due to being in Regier's doghouse. Mancari still has to beat out other options to make the roster as a RW; Pommer, Stafford, Kaleta, McCormick and Kassian. Why would we want Mancari in the lineup at the expense of any of these players?
Mark Mancair has in fact "NEVER" been given the opportunity to prove himself with the big club the way other prospects have. Like all of the prospects, he should be given a minimum 20 game run to see if he adjusts. Every other prospect has been given it at some point and time. It has nothing to do with his ability, look at Gerbe, he was barely visible his first 28 games, but he was kept up with the club none the less. No, I stand by my "FACTUAL" assesment, I am not basing it on emotion, it's just the facts, plain and simple.

Quote:

I'm not saying Mancari can't become a NHL regular. But I do disagree with the idea that he hasn't been given a fair shake with the Sabres or that he deserves a 3rd/4th line RW spot handed to him.
See my answers above. If you cannot run the numbers against other prospects and come up with the same deductions, you aren't doing the math.
I am not saying he deserves the 3rd or 4th line RW spot, I merely stating a "FACT", and that "FACT" is that he has not infact, been given the same shake as other prospects in so far as time to adjust beyond 4 to 7 games. Like I stated, it took Gerbe 28+ games to start to gel. Why hasn't Mancari been given that time given the fact that he actually produced more than Gerbe in his 6 game stint 2 years ago as opposed to Gerbe's 1st seven games?

All this talk of him being a career AHL'er is pure nonsense and opinionated based. It has no foundation to stand on given the very "FACT" that he has not been given the opportunity like other prospects have.

Zip15 01-26-2011 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHJMQFAN (Post 30473493)
At the end of this season Mancari will be free and can go wherever he chooses to... so why would any team give up a choice or a player for someone they can get for free in July?:yo:

Simply not true. He's RFA after this season. The only way that he'd be free to go where he chooses is if Buffalo doesn't qualify him, and that is unlikely.

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=8

EDIT: Apparently, he's a Group 6 UFA by virtue of having played less than 80 NHL games, being 25 and having played more than three pro seasons. Thanks, Buffaloed.

Buffaloed 01-26-2011 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 30472811)
Why do people keep saying he's in Regier's doghouse? First off, even assuming he is in someone's doghouse, Regier isn't the vindictive one in this organization. That would be one Larry Quinn. Second, how many times did Regier call-up Mancari and pass over Ennis and Gerbe last season, the season after his quasi-holdout? At least a couple. Also, wasn't he the first call-up this season? If not, he was second. The organization is just taking a look at other players right now. Both Gragnani and Byron earned their call-ups (not to mention they needed a center, which is why they called up Byron). If we need another forward call-up after the break, I bet Mancari gets the look after his recent scoring bonanza.

And, no, he won't be going anywhere after this season, unless he goes off to Europe and all but gives up on any hope for a NHL career in the near future. He's still RFA after the season

He'll be a Group VI UFA after this season.
The following players qualify for unrestricted free agency, having met the requirements for Group 6 free agency. These players, whose contracts have expired, are age 25 or older, have completed three or more professional seasons, and (i) in the case of a player other than a goaltender, have played less than 80 NHL games (regular-season and playoff), or (ii) in the case of a goaltender, have played less than 28 NHL games (regular-season and playoff).

He's an important player for Portland that provides scoring and leadership. Every player that's been called up speaks highly of him. They need him going into the playoffs. I can't see the Sabres unloading him and souring relations with their affiliate for simply a low round pick. I don't see him moving unless it's part of a bigger deal. He'll probably try his luck with another organization next year but I expect the Sabres to try to re-sign him.

Zip15 01-26-2011 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffaloed (Post 30473905)
He'll be a Group VI UFA after this season.
The following players qualify for unrestricted free agency, having met the requirements for Group 6 free agency. These players, whose contracts have expired, are age 25 or older, have completed three or more professional seasons, and (i) in the case of a player other than a goaltender, have played less than 80 NHL games (regular-season and playoff), or (ii) in the case of a goaltender, have played less than 28 NHL games (regular-season and playoff).

He's an important player for Portland that provides scoring and leadership. Every player that's been called up speaks highly of him. They need him going into the playoffs. I can't see the Sabres unloading him and souring relations with their affiliate for simply a low round pick. I don't see him moving unless it's part of a bigger deal. He'll probably try his luck with another organization next year but I expect the Sabres to try to re-sign him.


I stand corrected. Capgeek is also wrong on this one, as well.

joshjull 01-26-2011 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by static80 (Post 30473632)
Agreed



Mr. Pegula's transition team will review the "entire" situation with the club, including Mancari's. With how he has performed at the farm team level, and given the clubs current situation, I can fully see them giving him a 20-40 game opportunity to truly see what they have, something that has "NEVER" been given by the current regime.


I don't.

Of all the issues the new management team will need to deal with. Knowing what they have in Mancari will hardly be a blip on the radar.


Not to mention the last thing this team needs is an Owner, Team President or GM dictating to the coach who should be on the roster. Then on top of that they tell the coach to give him a 20 game trial period.

I can appreciate your desire to want him to play more but the idea that he deserves essentially a 20-40 game tryout is nonsense.

He deserves a shot to battle for a spot in camp and nothing more.

If the coach next season decides he makes the team out of camp, good for him. If the coach then decides he should get to be in the starting lineup opening night, good for him. But the coach and no one else should be making this determination.

Quote:

Mark Mancair has in fact "NEVER" been given the opportunity to prove himself with the big club the way other prospects have. Like all of the prospects, he should be given a minimum 20 game run to see if he adjusts. Every other prospect has been given it at some point and time. It has nothing to do with his ability, look at Gerbe, he was barely visible his first 28 games, but he was kept up with the club none the less. No, I stand by my "FACTUAL" assesment, I am not basing it on emotion, it's just the facts, plain and simple.
At the end of the day Ruff viewed the others as better players. They stayed up and Mancari went down.

Your beef is with Ruff not Regier.


Quote:

See my answers above. If you cannot run the numbers against other prospects and come up with the same deductions, you aren't doing the math.
I am not saying he deserves the 3rd or 4th line RW spot, I merely stating a "FACT", and that "FACT" is that he has not infact, been given the same shake as other prospects in so far as time to adjust beyond 4 to 7 games. Like I stated, it took Gerbe 28+ games to start to gel. Why hasn't Mancari been given that time given the fact that he actually produced more than Gerbe in his 6 game stint 2 years ago as opposed to Gerbe's 1st seven games?

Why players stay and others don't is based on more factors than just their production. Things like;

-their defensive game
-what position they play (as in the depth at said position)
-where the organization feels the would be best of developing
-the coach's opinion of that player.
-where they are developmentally. As in their age and what year as a pro they are.
-their draft postion




I would also point out that Mancari's 7gm stint (not 6gms) two seasons ago was nothing special (7gms 1g 1a 2pts -4). That was also Mancari's 2nd stint in the NHL and his 4th year as a pro (yes I know he was only drafted one year before Gerbe). He played in 3gms the year before.

Whereas Gerbe's first stint in the NHL was 5gms and he was a rookie.

5gms 0g 1a 1pt +3


Gerbe didn't play more than 5gms in a row until the tail end of last season, his 2nd as a pro. He played in the last 8gms of the year and had 1g 2a 3pts in those 8gms and was even on the plus/minus.

Then he played in our last two playoff games and played very well 2gms 1g 1a 2pts +2.


You do realize your taking the first 28gms played by Gerbe and acting as if they were one long stretch. That wasn't the case at all and he never played more than 8gms in a row unil this season.


Coming into camp Gerbe was ahead of Mancari based in part on his play in the last 8gms of the 09-10 regular season and his 2gms in the playoffs. Mancari did nothing to change that in camp. Once Gerbe makes the roster its pointless to keep comparing his games played as a rostered NHLer to an AHL callup.



Coming into camp this year (NHL games played and their production)

Mancari -> 16 gms (regular season over 3 years) 2g 3a 5pts -2
Gerbe ---> 20 gms (regular season over 2 years) 2g 4a 6pts +4 //// also 2 playoff games 1g 1a 2pts +2

I fail to see how you can argue its a fact Mancari was the far better option of the two based on that 7gm stretch or their numbers coming into camp.

Quote:

All this talk of him being a career AHL'er is pure nonsense and opinionated based. It has no foundation to stand on given the very "FACT" that he has not been given the opportunity like other prospects have
I haven't refered to Mancari as career AHLer.

Ron Barr 01-26-2011 11:15 AM

I could see him getting a full-time spot in the line-up next season if Grier isn't coming back. Of course, Mark would need a strong training camp and pre-season, with Kassian coming in, McCormick's ability at RW, and even a guy like Tropp who has the skill and work ethic to surprise people.

static80 01-26-2011 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 30474906)
I don't.

Of all the issues the new management team will need to deal with. Knowing what they have in Mancari will hardly be a blip on the radar.


Not to mention the last thing this team needs is an Owner, Team President or GM dictating to the coach who should be on the roster. Then on top of that they tell the coach to give him a 20 game trial period.

I can appreciate your desire to want him to play more but the idea that he deserves essentially a 20-40 game tryout is nonsense.

He deserves a shot to battle for a spot in camp and nothing more.

If the coach next season decides he makes the team out of camp, good for him. If the coach then decides he should get to be in the starting lineup opening night, good for him. But the coach and no one else should be making this determination.



At the end of the day Ruff viewed the others as better players. They stayed up and Mancari went down.

Your beef is with Ruff not Regier.





Why players stay and others don't is based on more factors than just their production. Things like;

-their defensive game
-what position they play (as in the depth at said position)
-where the organization feels the would be best of developing
-the coach's opinion of that player.
-where they are developmentally. As in their age and what year as a pro they are.
-their draft postion




I would also point out that Mancari's 7gm stint (not 6gms) two seasons ago was nothing special (7gms 1g 1a 2pts -4). That was also Mancari's 2nd stint in the NHL and his 4th year as a pro (yes I know he was only drafted one year before Gerbe). He played in 3gms the year before.

Whereas Gerbe's first stint in the NHL was 5gms and he was a rookie.

5gms 0g 1a 1pt +3


Gerbe didn't play more than 5gms in a row until the tail end of last season, his 2nd as a pro. He played in the last 8gms of the year and had 1g 2a 3pts in those 8gms and was even on the plus/minus.

Then he played in our last two playoff games and played very well 2gms 1g 1a 2pts +2.


You do realize your taking the first 28gms played by Gerbe and acting as if they were one long stretch. That wasn't the case at all and he never played more than 8gms in a row unil this season.


Coming into camp Gerbe was ahead of Mancari based in part on his play in the last 8gms of the 09-10 regular season and his 2gms in the playoffs. Mancari did nothing to change that in camp. Once Gerbe makes the roster its pointless to keep comparing his games played as a rostered NHLer to an AHL callup.


I fail to see how you can argue its a fact Mancari is the far better option of the two based on that 7gm stretch.




I haven't refered to Mancari as career AHLer.

Ruff is not the issue, Regier is. He can over ride Ruff's decisions as GM. Force him to work with Mancari.

I agree it's based on more than 1 factor. But the same could be said of Gerbe as well, not only him either, Adam and Kennedy come to mind.

Addressing the Mancari situation via a comparison to the camps both him and other prospects have had is very fair, and I do agree with you there, but yet again, I must point out the factual performance of the likes of Adam, Gerbe and Kennedy in their early stints with the big club and specifically, the time alloted for them to adjust. That wasn't shown by them in camp anymore than Mancari in my opinion.

Agreed on Gerbe's games played, and the same with Kennedy, but 8 games is more than what Mancari received, as I stated, it's slanted towards players like this and actually short changes Mancari's opportunities. Both Gerbe and Kennedy did little to nothing with those first stints, the same as Mancari, however, as can be attested to, the likes of Gerbe and Kennedy were afforded multiple stints, Mancari was not, atleast not on the scale others were.

I'm not (as was pointed out in my original post) stating that Mancari is a better option than any of the prospects who have come out ahead of him. I am however, stating that those prospects were given much more of an opportunity within the big club line up than Mancari has been, and their performances are not deemed significantly more or less than Mancari with the farm team. As a matter of fact, I'll argue that Mancari has more than earned a 20 game tryout with the big club given the fact he is partially responsible for the success of most of our prospects at the AHL level for the last couple of seasons.

The statement on career AHL'er wasn't directed at you, but at those who actually spout that crap. It has no foundation what so ever given the lack of opportunity given to Mancari with the Sabres organization at the NHL level in comparison to all of the other prospects on the roster to come through Portland/Rochester.

I don't discount that many have strong feelings on Mancari, I could care less either way to be honest, the guy to me is a 3rd line RWer at most in any event, something we can find I am sure elsewhere. I do know that he did sour Regier without the contract talks a couple of years ago and ever since has just not been afforded the same opportunities as other prospects.

New ownership will eveluate the situation, if there is an opportunity to fit him on the roster next season for a real looksy, they'll do it, thats my opinion.
He in no way is a savior or looks to be, but I, as a fan, won't know what we have in him until he's given a stretch with the big club that gives him time to adjust to linemates and his role in it.

He's obviously coachable. I would think if Ruff had him for 20 games or so and he started to use his body accordingly there would be room on line 3 or 4 for him.

Buffaloed 01-26-2011 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montag DP (Post 30473371)
Mancari has had plenty of chances in recent years. At times he's played well, but IMO not well enough to warrant him staying in the lineup over other up-and-coming players. I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up somewhere else in the near future.

He's another Jody Gage. A one dimensional player that hasn't been able to bring that dimension to the NHL. If he's not scoring goals he doesn't do anything else well enough to hold a roster spot. He didn't show any change during his last recall. He didn't get the call over Ellis/Byron because the Sabres saw what he can do and it's clearly not enough.

sabresfan123* 01-26-2011 12:41 PM

Mancari will never be a full time nhl player.

skibum 01-26-2011 12:49 PM

Mancari has Jody Gage syndrome in a bad way. Despite dominating the AHL he never shows much when he gets called up. So he never gets called up anymore. It's gotten so bad that he couldn't get a nod over 144-lb. Paul Byron or known quantity Matt Ellis when 3 Sabre forwards went out with injuries. Mancari responded to the snub by putting up his second hast trick in two games.

I would still like to the Sabres extend the same patience to Mancari as they did Gerbe, who showed little promise until things seemed to finally click last week. Mancari has only seen very spotty NHL action. He has shown that he deserves a real chance, but then again I'm no pro hockey scout so maybe there's something about his game that is holding him back.

sabresfan123* 01-26-2011 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skibum (Post 30477394)
Mancari has Jody Gage syndrome in a bad way. Despite dominating the AHL he never shows much when he gets called up. So he never gets called up anymore. It's gotten so bad that he couldn't get a nod over 144-lb. Paul Byron or known quantity Matt Ellis when 3 Sabre forwards went out with injuries. Mancari responded to the snub by putting up his second hast trick in two games.

I would still like to the Sabres extend the same patience to Mancari as they did Gerbe, who showed little promise until things seemed to finally click last week. Mancari has only seen very spotty NHL action. He has shown that he deserves a real chance, but then again I'm no pro hockey scout so maybe there's something about his game that is holding him back.

Paul Byron is listed at 170 lbs on the sabres website and the Pirates website. I do believe no one here has weighed him so why do poeple keep mentioning his weight when he was 18?

cybresabre 01-26-2011 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabresfan123 (Post 30481888)
Paul Byron is listed at 170 lbs on the sabres website and the Pirates website. I do believe no one here has weighed him so why do poeple keep mentioning his weight when he was 18?

It is mentioned repeatedly because in his first game it was the weight that was listed by MSG, it has since been corrected.


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