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HF Article 01-28-2011 11:35 AM

2006 Draft underwhelming for Nashville Predators
 
The Predators did not have a pick in the first or third rounds, and only one selection among the first 100 picks of the draft.

More...

Tony Piscotta 01-31-2011 11:39 AM

Dekanich
 
Nice article - one minor point. He lost the backup job in Nashville to Anders Lindback, not Engren. Engren is back in Finland playing for TPS - albeit not with the same level of success the club had last year, when they were the surprising Canada Cup champions.

PredsV82 01-31-2011 09:14 PM

Geez, winning the Hobey Baker is considered an "adequate" collegiate career?? :shakehead

ThirdManIn 01-31-2011 09:23 PM

He's from Brentwood. Anything short of breaking every NCAA Men's Hockey scoring record is adequate. If he were from the Great White North he would be a collegiate legend.

I'm sure no one around here is surprised that our weakest draft since the lockout is viewed by others as underwhelming. That's what happens when you trade away draft picks in an effort to make noise in the play offs.

token grinder 01-31-2011 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdManIn (Post 30574223)
He's from Brentwood. Anything short of breaking every NCAA Men's Hockey scoring record is adequate. If he were from the Great White North he would be a collegiate legend.

I'm sure no one around here is surprised that our weakest draft since the lockout is viewed by others as underwhelming. That's what happens when you trade away draft picks in an effort to make noise in the play offs.


that pick went to washington to draft semyon varlamov, didn't it.

thanks brendan witt

CantbeatzPekka 02-03-2011 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by token grinder (Post 30575212)
that pick went to washington to draft semyon varlamov, didn't it.

thanks brendan witt

we could definitely use another goalie

hockey diva 02-03-2011 08:51 PM

The epic fail in that draft is costing us now. No forwards who can score.

Seth Lake 02-03-2011 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey diva (Post 30646686)
The epic fail in that draft is costing us now. No forwards who can score.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2006e.html

A total of 6 players selected after Geoffrion with 10 or more goals scored to this point. You tell me where Poile missed the offense in that draft? If you want to argue anything agrue that a 1st was too much to pay for Witt. Even then though, if we keep our first, there's no way to know if we take one of the defensemen right there.

The draft mindset was to get bigger. The draft class was VERY weak outside of the first round. We missed on a couple guys, but getting Geoffrion where we did...I'd consider the class to be decent combined with Mark Dekanich coming up the pipeline too.

dulzhok 02-04-2011 12:44 AM

I don't think anyone could expect an offensive weapon with the picks we had that year.

But, Poile's track record picking offensive weapons speaks for itself. You have to go back to 1994 to find a Poile pick who has scored more than 30 goals-- Richard Zednik scored 31 goals, once.

We can speculate what could have happened with Radulov's stats, but we can also speculate if a different GM could have alleviated the situation.

Playing Philly tonight, you see a team who's done it right the last few years. Cater, Richards, and Girioux (3 serious offensive weapons) were all drafted middle-to-late first round. Leino was picked up for peanuts. Zherdev for cheap. Getting Pronger for not that much. Sure, they have the luxury of signing some big contracts like Briere and Timonen, but they have built their teams from all angles -- Draft, Trade, Sign.

I Will Son 02-04-2011 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulzhok (Post 30651280)
I don't think anyone could expect an offensive weapon with the picks we had that year.

But, Poile's track record picking offensive weapons speaks for itself. You have to go back to 1994 to find a Poile pick who has scored more than 30 goals-- Richard Zednik scored 31 goals, once.

Thats a terrible track record for forwards. Top notch D he has drafted on the other hand is amazing. But top notch forwards not so much..

Jarnberg 02-04-2011 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Will Son (Post 30651478)
Thats a terrible track record for forwards. Top notch D he has drafted on the other hand is amazing. But top notch forwards not so much..

Austin Watson or Scottie Upshall are perfect examples of why this team cannot draft offensive talent.

Paranoid Android 02-04-2011 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulzhok (Post 30651280)
I don't think anyone could expect an offensive weapon with the picks we had that year.

But, Poile's track record picking offensive weapons speaks for itself. You have to go back to 1994 to find a Poile pick who has scored more than 30 goals-- Richard Zednik scored 31 goals, once.

We can speculate what could have happened with Radulov's stats, but we can also speculate if a different GM could have alleviated the situation.

Playing Philly tonight, you see a team who's done it right the last few years. Cater, Richards, and Girioux (3 serious offensive weapons) were all drafted middle-to-late first round. Leino was picked up for peanuts. Zherdev for cheap. Getting Pronger for not that much. Sure, they have the luxury of signing some big contracts like Briere and Timonen, but they have built their teams from all angles -- Draft, Trade, Sign.

Hartnell and Hornqvist are both 30 goal scorers

triggrman 02-04-2011 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android (Post 30653400)
Hartnell and Hornqvist are both 30 goal scorers

To be fair, he did say more than 30.

triggrman 02-04-2011 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 30653258)
Austin Watson or Scottie Upshall are perfect examples of why this team cannot draft offensive talent.

Agreed, some times the "safe" pick is not so safe.

Paranoid Android 02-04-2011 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman (Post 30654515)
To be fair, he did say more than 30.

oh lord... same thing. dulzhok should be a politician

dulzhok 02-04-2011 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android (Post 30654945)
oh lord... same thing. dulzhok should be a politician

It doesn't take a politician to prove Poile's inability to draft offensive weapons.

BigFatCat999 02-04-2011 11:01 AM

I've done the profile on Poile. He does draft safe even when the external factors say it's time to take a risk. I'm 4 for 5 in guessing Poile's picks because he is that predicable. Only reason why I missed this last draft because Watson was SO much a Poile pick. Anyone could have picked him but I thought the ownership and the new direction would have pressured Poile to take a risk with Etem but he picked Watson.

As I profiled before on NP.com, David Poile drafts exactly like a stock broker hedging his picks for success.

barrytrotzsneck 02-04-2011 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman (Post 30654519)
Agreed, some times the "safe" pick is not so safe.

Poile's directive has always been building teams that were defense first. Drafting star defensemen, finding star goalies, and then filling out the team with forwards that are defensively responsible, average offensively. We've broken that mold very few times, and almost never in the first round, with the exception of Radulov--whom I was shocked we took at the time. Pleased, but shocked, especially when a pure "Poile guy" in Kyle Chipchura was available at that spot. You could make an argument for Colin Wilson, but he was advertised as more defensively responsible and "mature" than he's proven to be, so I'm not sure Poile was taking an outright risk there.

Look at this draft...we took a guy who is essentially a defensive specialist with possible offensive upside...best case scenario, Jordan Staal. Worst case? Vernon Fiddler. That's fine on its own--every team needs a guy like that, but when you try to populate your entire roster with guys like that, you find yourself in the situation we're in now -- a team that gets by in the regular season by scoring a timely goal now and then and then counting on the defense and goaltender to hold it up. That's all well and good in the regular season, but as we've seen, the game changes in the playoffs--something that as Dulz alluded, has concerningly been lost on Poile throughout his career as a GM. There were guys that were considered more "dynamic" offensively available at that spot...obviously Kuznetzov, but i understand the hesitance there...but beyond that, Bjugstad, Etem, Beau Bennett...but none of those guys was the safe, two-way "Predator mold" that we tend toward.

My issue with drafting guys like that is that they're so readily, cheaply available in free agency. We signed Fiddler, Smithson, Nichol, Yachmenev, Johnson, Ward(initially) for peanuts. We didn't need to use first round picks to draft them. What doesn't come cheaply is true offensive skill. We'll never be able to afford to sign it in free agency, but it's a different story if you can draft it, bring it up through your system, and then make the case for extending it.

What concerns me is that at this point in our system, we don't have anything on the horizon to suggest that there's some sort of salvation on the way. Our best offensive prospect is Taylor Beck, and in the words of Paul Fenton himself, they see him as a 3rd or possibly 2nd liner. Mike Latta? Third or fourth liner. Cehlin? Third or fourth liner. Geoffrion? Third or fourth liner. You could possibly make a case for Klasen, but he's so one-dimensional that I don't see Trotz ever giving him the proper chance.

We can all be cognizant of what the organization's issues are, they can be glaring. Some of us can even pretend that things are great because we make the playoffs every year with low payroll and low talent...but there's going to come a point where that's not enough. What happens when we get out ofthe first round, and spend the next 10 years getting bounced in the second? When does never being a legitimate contender with the status quo become no longer acceptable?

barrytrotzsneck 02-04-2011 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 (Post 30655932)
I've done the profile on Poile. He does draft safe even when the external factors say it's time to take a risk. I'm 4 for 5 in guessing Poile's picks because he is that predicable. Only reason why I missed this last draft because Watson was SO much a Poile pick. Anyone could have picked him but I thought the ownership and the new direction would have pressured Poile to take a risk with Etem but he picked Watson.

As I profiled before on NP.com, David Poile drafts exactly like a stock broker hedging his picks for success.

and in turn, never gets really "rich." Ekes out a modest, comfortable income, while all his buddies are rolling around in nice cars and living in big fancy houses.

dulzhok 02-04-2011 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck (Post 30657047)
and in turn, never gets really "rich." Ekes out a modest, comfortable income, while all his buddies are rolling around in nice cars and living in big fancy houses.

Exactly. And some of his buddies go broke; he stays "comfortable".

ThirdManIn 02-04-2011 03:37 PM

Good points on Poile and the way the Predators organization drafts players, especially forwards.

The draft is always a crap shoot. You have players like Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin, etc come through that are basically guaranteed to be stars in the league, but even then you run the risk of being wrong. The problem is, in my opinion, a lack of confidence in drafting offensive players, and with that lack of confidence comes a lack of risk taking. I don't think comparing other teams' late round picks who panned out to Poile's lack thereof is fair because it can just as easily be argued that those teams got lucky. The flip side is that some teams (Detroit immediately springs to mind) seem to "get lucky" with relative frequency. My opinion on the future of Poile is basically the same as my opinion on the future of Trotz. I think at this point in time they are good for the organization because they both seem to understand how to run a team on a budget. When the team no longer needs to budget itself (and I feel that time is approaching) their flaws in these other areas will begin to glare. If one or both of them prove to be incapable of taking the team (skill level) in the same direction as the organization as a whole (with respect to spending) then it will be time to bring in new faces. Whether it be coaching, player development, drafting, UFA signing, or trading, something (or several things) WILL have to be changed. I don't see it happening until the club is able to operate without financial restraint though.

But then I have little-to-no insight on hockey operations. This rant was brought to you by more typing than thinking ;)

dulzhok 02-04-2011 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdManIn (Post 30661221)
I don't see it happening until the club is able to operate without financial restraint though.

I don't see how financial restraint has correlation to drafting more offensively gifted forwards.

ThirdManIn 02-04-2011 04:27 PM

It doesn't. It has to do with replacing Poile and/or Trotz. I don't think we're going to be seeing a lot of offensive talent drafted while Poile is here, and if it is I don't see Trotz giving them a fair shake if they are strictly offensive players. Our system just isn't built to cultivate offensive talent. We have to have this defense-first mentality in order to remain competitive while we have a budget.

I could be wrong about all of this of course, and I'm sure I'm wrong about some of it.

glenngineer 02-04-2011 04:37 PM

While the term luck has been brought into drafting, someone brought up Detroit getting lucky with later picks that turn into offensive stars. How about us drafting late and getting lucky in developing goalies or defensemen? Weber, Klein, Sulzer, Franson, Rinne and Lindback were all picked in the second or later rounds. Rounds that traditionally are harder to get sure fire NHL players out of. We have one guy that is a Norris trophy candidate. We have a solid second pairing defenseman. We have another guy that is showing some promise. We have one more guy that is improving every game this season. We have a goalie tandem that is one of the best in the league.

While I'd love to see more "risk" taken in our offensive prospects, Poile is doing something right.

We're all surprised Poile took Radulov and it came back to bite him in the butt. Do we want to take chances like that year after year?

dulzhok 02-04-2011 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenngineer (Post 30662375)
We're all surprised Poile took Radulov and it came back to bite him in the butt. Do we want to take chances like that year after year?

Probably not, that's why we'll continue to see the "safe" picks like Scottie Upshall, Austin Watons, Scott Hartnell, Colin Wilson, etc.

Life is safer and more predictable if you stay inside the Poile box, but it's also unlikely to get you out of the first round.


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