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-   -   Clarke Wants Giroux To Be More Selfish (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=871890)

CerpinTaxt 02-02-2011 10:20 AM

Clarke Wants Giroux To Be More Selfish
 
Ran across an article and thought it was interesting. Lots of comparisons made between Clarke and Giroux, plus Clarke's two cents on Giroux.

Quote:

What about that spot in the Hall and two Stanley Cup rings? It goes without saying that Clarke is at least the greatest skater in Flyers history and is certainly in the argument for greatest player with Bernie Parent. But on Tuesday Clarke offered Giroux some advice.

The only thing I would say that Claude does is overpass too much. Hes not selfish enough, Clarke said. I think hes gotta try to score my goals because he can, and thats gonna make his passing game easier. Hes so good, but hes gotta be more selfish, in my opinion, to score.
article: http://phillysportsdaily.com/flyers/...-more-selfish/

I actually like the part where Clarke thinks its an honor that players like Richards and Giroux are compared to him. Anyone else think that if Giroux was "trying to score more goals", as Clarke says, that it would open up his passing game as well? Anyway, cool read.

Flyskippy 02-02-2011 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CerpinTaxt (Post 30607468)
Ran across an article and thought it was interesting. Lots of comparisons made between Clarke and Giroux, plus Clarke's two cents on Giroux.



article: http://phillysportsdaily.com/flyers/...-more-selfish/

I actually like the part where Clarke thinks its an honor that players like Richards and Giroux are compared to him. Anyone else think that if Giroux was "trying to score more goals", as Clarke says, that it would open up his passing game as well? Anyway, cool read.

I would follow Clarke's advice, because he was the best Flyers forward ever. If opponents have to start respecting Giroux's shot, then they will allow for more passing room. If they know he's not going to shoot, it makes their job a little easier.

Jester 02-02-2011 10:51 AM

Giroux could maybe shoot a bit more, but I don't think it's going to translate to more goals. One of the reasons he's been efficient (18.3% shooting this year) is because he shoots from areas where his shot is worth taking (he doesn't have a particularly heavy shot, or quick release).

Would that open some passing lanes? Maybe... but then you're shooting from lower % areas and possibly not making a pass to a guy in a higher % area.

Crosby shot the puck a LOT more last year. He registered the lowest assist total and assist-per-game of his career. This year he's shooting even more, and while his assist-per-game rate has bounced back up a little, it's still below what he was registering in the three previous seasons. There was no impact on his PPG rate last year with more shooting (1.35, preceded by 1.34, and 1.36 seasons). What has improved is Crosby's goals-per-game, by a wide margin.

RoDu 02-02-2011 10:56 AM

Now that I think of it, Giroux not shooting on the PP and always making one of two passing plays could be a small reason why the PP is in the toilet

aghockey86 02-02-2011 11:12 AM

i definitely think that Giroux opting to shoot a little more would help out the PP. While he may not have the heaviest shot, he may catch goalies off guard every now and again as they more expect him to pass it off, makes him a little more unpredictable*

bennysflyers16 02-02-2011 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDu (Post 30608171)
Now that I think of it, Giroux not shooting on the PP and always making one of two passing plays could be a small reason why the PP is in the toilet

There are numerous times when he has the puck in the slot on PP and tries some cross ice fancy pass instead of shooting. Those are high % areas to shoot from and he still looks to pass. Clarke is 100% right that he needs to take more shots.

CerpinTaxt 02-02-2011 11:15 AM

Or Giroux could try to finesse his way in a bit more.

The kid can dangle a bit.

BobbyClarkeFan16 02-02-2011 11:19 AM

I gotta agree with Clarke on this one. Everyone knows Giroux has great hands and he'll always pass first. It's time that he surprise everyone and start firing off a few more shots. Fact is, he has the ability to score goals. We've seen him score "goal scorer" goals and while he might not have the quickest or hardest release, he just has that knack with creating offensive opportunities when the puck is on his stick.

thedjpd 02-02-2011 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 30608071)
Giroux could maybe shoot a bit more, but I don't think it's going to translate to more goals. One of the reasons he's been efficient (18.3% shooting this year) is because he shoots from areas where his shot is worth taking (he doesn't have a particularly heavy shot, or quick release).

Would that open some passing lanes? Maybe... but then you're shooting from lower % areas and possibly not making a pass to a guy in a higher % area.

Crosby shot the puck a LOT more last year. He registered the lowest assist total and assist-per-game of his career. This year he's shooting even more, and while his assist-per-game rate has bounced back up a little, it's still below what he was registering in the three previous seasons. There was no impact on his PPG rate last year with more shooting (1.35, preceded by 1.34, and 1.36 seasons). What has improved is Crosby's goals-per-game, by a wide margin.

I don't think that's what Clarke means.

As some of our other posters pointed out, it's not about taking shots from anywhere like Carter. It's that Giroux sometimes even in high % areas tries to make a fancy pass.

That's where he needs to just shoot it, not just increasing random shots from everywhere.

Cartsiephan* 02-02-2011 11:45 AM

Giroux needs to be consitently at the center position where he can be more consistent handling the puck, period.

infidelappel* 02-02-2011 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedjpd (Post 30608831)
I don't think that's what Clarke means.

As some of our other posters pointed out, it's not about taking shots from anywhere like Carter. It's that Giroux sometimes even in high % areas tries to make a fancy pass.

That's where he needs to just shoot it, not just increasing random shots from everywhere.

Ding ding ding.

Giroux doesn't need to start shooting for shooting's sake; he needs to start shooting when he ought to. There are TONS of times when he's in a prime location and opts to pass instead. He has a decently accurate shot, and needs to trust himself to take his chances.

He can have a golden opportunity, but he'll pass it off to someone for the prettier play when it may not be the better one. Earlier this season, he was shooting and/or dangling toward the net a lot more and scoring more...he's gotten away from that.

Jester 02-02-2011 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedjpd (Post 30608831)
I don't think that's what Clarke means.

As some of our other posters pointed out, it's not about taking shots from anywhere like Carter. It's that Giroux sometimes even in high % areas tries to make a fancy pass.

That's where he needs to just shoot it, not just increasing random shots from everywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by infidelappel (Post 30609201)
Ding ding ding.

Giroux doesn't need to start shooting for shooting's sake; he needs to start shooting when he ought to. There are TONS of times when he's in a prime location and opts to pass instead. He has a decently accurate shot, and needs to trust himself to take his chances.

He can have a golden opportunity, but he'll pass it off to someone for the prettier play when it may not be the better one. Earlier this season, he was shooting and/or dangling toward the net a lot more and scoring more...he's gotten away from that.

See, I don't think he passes up as many golden chances as people think. Just because you're in a prime location, doesn't mean you have a ton of open net staring you in the face to put the puck. There's a reason his shooting % is as solid as it is. He also has a bit more load time on his shot than a guy like Carter (who can just whip the puck with very little effort) if he's going to get much on it.

He's currently pacing for a 31 goal season... which is rather impressive given that at any sort of range, Giroux is somewhat limited in the goal scoring department. Really don't think he's leaving that many goals on the table, if any.

chaosof99* 02-02-2011 12:11 PM

I agree with Clarkie. Kid needs to shoot more when he has the opportunity to. He's always looking pass first if anybody is in the vicinity.

RoDu 02-02-2011 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaosof99 (Post 30609840)
I agree with Clarkie. Kid needs to shoot more when he has the opportunity to. He's always looking pass first if anybody is in the vicinity.

the same can be said for Leino

infidelappel* 02-02-2011 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 30609480)
See, I don't think he passes up as many golden chances as people think. Just because you're in a prime location, doesn't mean you have a ton of open net staring you in the face to put the puck. There's a reason his shooting % is as solid as it is. He also has a bit more load time on his shot than a guy like Carter (who can just whip the puck with very little effort) if he's going to get much on it.

He's currently pacing for a 31 goal season... which is rather impressive given that at any sort of range, Giroux is somewhat limited in the goal scoring department. Really don't think he's leaving that many goals on the table, if any.

Agree to disagree, I guess. It's not all the time, but I do think he passes up golden opportunities he shouldn't, leading to no shot on goal when there could be a good one. Having a high shooting percentage is fine, but when you're in the high/mid slot with a prime chance to take a shot but you pass it off to the perimeter and get no chance out of it, that's a bad thing.

His pace is great, but Giroux has the ability to score even more goals than he currently is. But more importantly, drawing more attention to himself as a scorer is only going to make being a playmaker easier.

I'm more than happy with his production, sure...but I think the next logical step is for him to make himself more of a threat. I think he has a decent scoring touch, and there's no reason for him not to make use of it when he's in a great spot to do so.

To that end, I think Leino needs to do the same thing as well.

Jester 02-02-2011 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infidelappel (Post 30610489)
Agree to disagree, I guess. It's not all the time, but I do think he passes up golden opportunities he shouldn't, leading to no shot on goal when there could be a good one. Having a high shooting percentage is fine, but when you're in the high/mid slot with a prime chance to take a shot but you pass it off to the perimeter and get no chance out of it, that's a bad thing.

His pace is great, but Giroux has the ability to score even more goals than he currently is. But more importantly, drawing more attention to himself as a scorer is only going to make being a playmaker easier.

I'm more than happy with his production, sure...but I think the next logical step is for him to make himself more of a threat. I think he has a decent scoring touch, and there's no reason for him not to make use of it when he's in a great spot to do so.

To that end, I think Leino needs to do the same thing as well.

That mindset also leads to all the "how the **** did he see that guy" goals that Giroux sets up.

The shooting v. passing thing is always a give and take. Sure, if he adopts more of a shoot-first mentality he will score more goals (see Briere this year). However, less assists are likely to come with that (see Briere).

dingbathero 02-02-2011 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 30608071)
Giroux could maybe shoot a bit more, but I don't think it's going to translate to more goals. One of the reasons he's been efficient (18.3% shooting this year) is because he shoots from areas where his shot is worth taking (he doesn't have a particularly heavy shot, or quick release).

Would that open some passing lanes? Maybe... but then you're shooting from lower % areas and possibly not making a pass to a guy in a higher % area.

Crosby shot the puck a LOT more last year. He registered the lowest assist total and assist-per-game of his career. This year he's shooting even more, and while his assist-per-game rate has bounced back up a little, it's still below what he was registering in the three previous seasons. There was no impact on his PPG rate last year with more shooting (1.35, preceded by 1.34, and 1.36 seasons). What has improved is Crosby's goals-per-game, by a wide margin.

I say he shoots more. Hopefully he will.

infidelappel* 02-02-2011 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 30610628)
That mindset also leads to all the "how the **** did he see that guy" goals that Giroux sets up.

The shooting v. passing thing is always a give and take. Sure, if he adopts more of a shoot-first mentality he will score more goals (see Briere this year). However, less assists are likely to come with that.

It's not about adopting a shoot-first mentality. It's about realizing when the opportunity he has is better than throwing it to someone else. Lately, he seems to be reverting back to defaulting to pass almost no matter what...at the start of the year, he was taking some more shots himself and was getting more goals while still making the nice passes.

There are times when you absolutely have to take the shot, and Giroux doesn't always shoot in those times. That's all I want him to change.

HoverCarle* 02-02-2011 12:47 PM

This year has already been much better for him for shooting

He has 104 shots so far this year, and last year only finished with 145

facts 02-02-2011 12:47 PM

I am not comparing Giroux and crosby however I am comparing their shot. The early knock on crosby was that he didn't shoot, so he worked on his shot and now he uses it effectively. Observation would suggest that Giroux doesn't really have a strong shot, so he does recognize his bread and butter is his passing and relies on his strength. I think that he is so skilled but he is still so unpredictable, meaning he does use the shot when needed and that is a key to his game, basically pass first but shoot if there. Another point is that offensively he is a perimeter player, and that is not a knock, Claude is at his best when he carries the puck into the zone tight curls to the boards and then dishes, so his shot from the perimeter is not really high percentage or effective due to his shot type. I really think in the future he will get stronger and develop his shot to increase the effectiveness or selfishness of it.

agrudez* 02-02-2011 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDu (Post 30608171)
Now that I think of it, Giroux not shooting on the PP and always making one of two passing plays could be a small reason why the PP is in the toilet

Giroux on the half boards is infuriating to watch. So many times he comes off them with an open shot, but instead looks for a pass and when he doesn't find one gives it back to the dman and the process starts back over.

He needs to be down low in our PP setup.

Cartsiephan* 02-02-2011 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dingbathero (Post 30610633)
I say he shoots more. Hopefully he will.

Giroux has the Crosby mentality, if he has things he needs to work on he will make the adjustments over the offseason to be a shoot more player.

McNasty 02-02-2011 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 (Post 30608453)
There are numerous times when he has the puck in the slot on PP and tries some cross ice fancy pass instead of shooting. Those are high % areas to shoot from and he still looks to pass. Clarke is 100% right that he needs to take more shots.

They can't have Giroux and Briere on the same powerplay IMO, because Giroux would be best suited down low where he can make passes. When you are at the top of the circles and hesitate to pull the trigger teams catch on to that, it's the same reason I hate Timonen on the PP b/c there are some games he just will not shoot.

MsWoof 02-02-2011 04:19 PM

I'm just proud of Clarkie for remembering Claude's name!

RoDu 02-02-2011 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woof (Post 30615300)
I'm just proud of Clarkie for remembering Claude's name!

probably written down on a cue card


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