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-   -   Proposal: Car-nyr (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=876322)

Zuccarello Awesome* 02-12-2011 05:54 AM

Car-nyr
 
Gaborik, Staal, Anisimov, Del Zotto, 2nd for Skinner, Ruutu, Pitkanen, McBain


RANGERS:

Sign Richards
Re-sign Pitkanen, Eminger and all our RFAs except Gilroy
Let White walk
Hope Drury retires. Otherwise buy him out.

Dubinsky Richards Skinner
Kreider Stepan Zuccarello
Wolski Ruutu Callahan
Prust Boyle Avery
Grachev

Pitkanen Girardi
McDonagh McBain <-- played together at Wisconsin (with Stepan too)
Eminger Sauer
Valentenko


For the Canes (assuming not much else changes):

Cole - Staal - Gaborik
Samsonov - Anisimov - LaRose
Tlusty - Sutter - Dwyer
Boychuk - Sutter - Bodie

Staal - Corvo
Gleason - Del Zotto
Harrison - Carson

Ward

CSimpson18 02-12-2011 05:59 AM

Well done. I was fully prepared to flame you for asking for Skinner but the inclusion of Marc Staal shows you are willing to give a serious piece in return. MDZ is also cool but his value is too low compared to what he will prove after a season or two so there's really no point trading him this soon.
I'm very curiouos to see what fans of both teams say about this. This being HF i can only imagine Skinner will make it a non-starter.

SLAPSHOT723 02-12-2011 06:51 AM

Even though Marc Staal is great, I can't see Carolina giving up Skinner. He's just too good of a goal scorer to trade at this stage of his career.

DaveG 02-12-2011 07:12 AM

Huge trades like this never happen, but I'll give you credit for actually trying to consider what both teams are in need of in this one.

caniac247 02-12-2011 08:30 AM

Canes org is too high on Skinner right now. Not to mention he became an instant fan favorite and his merchandise is outselling everyone else. I think the fans would burn down the RBC if Skinner was traded. Rutherford won't do it because Skinner is involved.

Wraparounds 02-12-2011 09:16 AM

:laugh:

Hey Canes fans, I realize you like your new shiny toy, but when some idiot presents a package like that, you don't turn it down.

Anton Skinner 02-12-2011 09:23 AM

that is a very tough one, and honestly the only piece that makes me second guess it is Skinner......but you have to give to get.....i jsut dont know. a very tough one. i guess its that good of an offer. that is a lot of nice pieces from the Rags, and who knows what that 2nd could turn into.

jas 02-12-2011 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wraparounds (Post 30855425)
:laugh:

Hey Canes fans, I realize you like your new shiny toy, but when some idiot presents a package like that, you don't turn it down.

Gotta love the trade rumors board after the Rangers lose a few games in a row.

:shakehead

Dr. Ogrodnick 02-12-2011 09:58 AM

As a Ranger fan that trade makes me vomit. Over reaction to last night much?

Darth Joker 02-12-2011 10:00 AM

That's a very nice trade proposal.

Canes would probably have to take that. There's just too many nice pieces there to pass it up, even with trading Skinner being a tough pill to swallow.

Staal-Gaborik could be absolutely incredible.


It also makes some sense as a cap saving room for the Rangers. Only thing, you better get Richards after making that move, or it starts to look a lot worse...

Tuomaz 02-12-2011 10:30 AM

value wise:

ruutu>>>anisimov
pitkanen>>staal
mcbain=del zotto
gaborik>skinner

Anton Skinner 02-12-2011 10:34 AM

just cause im curious cause i havent heard much about MDZ and Anisimov, other than the "they are awesome" from one of my closest friends who is a Rags fan.........

What do the Rags realistically expect out of these 2 in the next, say, 5 years (assuming they dont get traded in those 5 years) development-wise

Dr. Ogrodnick 02-12-2011 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuomaz (Post 30856604)
value wise:

ruutu>>>anisimov
pitkanen>>staal
mcbain=del zotto
gaborik>skinner



More like Staal>>>> Pitkanen, especially when you throw in the contract situations.

Darrelle Lundqvist 02-12-2011 10:47 AM

I don't see how this trade will improve our team. Yeah Skinner is having a remarkable year, but is it worth giving up Staal? No. And I don't see a reason why the canes would do this.

Anton Skinner 02-12-2011 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick (Post 30856717)
More like Staal>>>> Pitkanen, especially when you throw in the contract situations.

yeeeaaahhhh......this is way closer to what I was thinking as a Canes fan. Joni has his good games, more good than bad overall, but his bad games are just head scratchers. I would kill to have M. Staal on the Canes. Joni + Bowman + Cond. 2011 2nd for Staal. I would do it. right now. Conditional turns to 2011 1st if joni resigns in NY.

vipernsx 02-12-2011 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuomaz (Post 30856604)
value wise:

ruutu>>>anisimov
pitkanen>>staal
mcbain=del zotto
gaborik>skinner

Seriously? You don't get out much huh.

I don't care how crumby of a season Gabby is having, he's still a top10 talent in the league...Skinner is not. If you believe that youth and contract play into factors in overall value fine be consistent.

To rate Staal as significantly less than Pitkanen is just ludicrous and I'm a Pitkanen fan for some time now. If youth and contracts are factors, be consistent, Staal's value increases.

To increase the less thans between Ruutu and Anisimov just multiple the last statement.

Rangers say no.

Blueline Bomber 02-12-2011 11:57 AM

I'd ignore the other pieces and simply try and find something revolving around Gaborik and Pitkanen+

jas 02-12-2011 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton Bomb (Post 30858436)
I'd ignore the other pieces and simply try and find something revolving around Gaborik and Pitkanen+

As a Ranger fan, I would hope no.

Zubrus Coffee Maker 02-12-2011 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuomaz (Post 30856604)
value wise:

ruutu>>>anisimov
pitkanen>>staal
mcbain=del zotto
gaborik>skinner

:laugh:

DuckEatinShark 02-12-2011 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome (Post 30854024)
Gaborik, Staal, Anisimov, Del Zotto, 2nd for Skinner, Ruutu, Pitkanen, McBain


RANGERS:

Sign Richards
Re-sign Pitkanen, Eminger and all our RFAs except Gilroy
Let White walk
Hope Drury retires. Otherwise buy him out.

Dubinsky Richards Skinner
Kreider Stepan Zuccarello
Wolski Ruutu Callahan
Prust Boyle Avery
Grachev

Pitkanen Girardi
McDonagh McBain <-- played together at Wisconsin (with Stepan too)
Eminger Sauer
Valentenko


For the Canes (assuming not much else changes):

Cole - Staal - Gaborik
Samsonov - Anisimov - LaRose
Tlusty - Sutter - Dwyer
Boychuk - Sutter - Bodie

Staal - Corvo
Gleason - Del Zotto
Harrison - Carson

Ward

The Rangers defense would arguably be the worst in the league.

As great as the Carolina package is, I don't think the Rangers are OK with giving up their top 2 defensemen AND their leading scorer.

And to the guy that said Pitkanen > Staal, :facepalm:

Dfence033 02-12-2011 12:24 PM

I have to say, I don't spend much time on the trade threads because of things like this. The difference in salary (roughly $3 million) between Staal+Gaborik and Pitkanen+Ruutu isn't worth nearly the massive downgrade in talent, especially since the idea is to get Richards, meaning both Pitkanen and Ruutu would have to be let go following their UFA (Pit this year, Ruutu next) in order to keep the RFA's, which would then include Skinner and McBain (RFA same year Ruutu is a UFA, meaning he too would likely have to walk in favor of a cheaper replacement). In that sense, the trade becomes:

Gaborik+Staal+Del Zotto+Anisimov+2nd

for

Richards+Skinner

in a matter of 1 season. Seeing the trades in that light make it seem ludicrous that any team would offer the Gaborik package for that Richards package. I understand Skinner is having a good rookie year, but we aren't talking about a true franchise player like a Staal (either Eric or Marc, for that matter), a recent 1 or 2 overall (Hall, Seguin), or an ensured lottery pick in the top-2. Nor is there a young, cost-controlled high-potential 1C to replace Richards in 3-4 years. I know many Rangers fans are seeing the sky falling, but this is one of the youngest teams in the NHL (if not THE youngest) and are doing rather well with what they have. $3 million is NOT worth the drop-off between Gaborik and Staal to Ruutu (good player), and Pitkanen (wildly inconsistent, average defenseman with effort issues and an expensive UFA at that), McBain (who is essentially an older Del Zotto replacement in this trade, and as well as he has played, likely has trade value slightly higher than the 2nd-round pick the Rangers will likely have this year [~40th overall]), and Skinner (who could become the Rangers next Petr Prucha). If the idea is to make a serious run at Richards, wait until the off-season. If you need to clear space, try something like:

Gaborik for B. Schenn + pick
and
Gilroy+2nd+5th for Babchuk

Buy-out Drury. All the sudden, you have a very good potential 1C in case you don't get Richards, cap-space to make a serious run at Richards AND keep all the RFA's, and a good powerplay bomb in Babchuk. Imagine that! :shakehead

Anton Skinner 02-12-2011 12:33 PM

so you are saying that Skinner's value is less than Tyler Freaking Seguin right now? wow. have you seen Seguin play? Did you see who was a healthy scratch the other night for Boston? and no it wasnt because it was Veteran's Night.

Dfence033 02-12-2011 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton Skinner (Post 30859362)
so you are saying that Skinner's value is less than Tyler Freaking Seguin right now? wow. have you seen Seguin play? Did you see who was a healthy scratch the other night for Boston? and no it wasnt because it was Veteran's Night.

I've seen both play. I'm not discounting Skinner's value or over-valuing Seguin. Keep in mind, one plays on a team that needs good, cost-controlled, top-6 forwards, and one plays on a team that is so front-loaded with top-6 forwards, not everyone gets a spot. Look, I know you are all coming to defend Skinner, but there is a reason Skinner wasn't considered as one of the top-2 with Hall and Seguin. Their ceilings are sky-high, even if one can't find playing time on a loaded offensive team. What I'm saying is Skinner's value is not the equivalent of Gaborik (neither is Ruutu's despite my love of how he plays), who has been a consistent offensive juggernaut in this league. The Rangers had a rookie by the name of Petr Prucha who scored 30 goals as a rookie, and I don't believe has scored 30 goals in a few season in the NHL since. And while I'm not saying Skinner is the next Prucha, there is no guarantee that he WON'T be the next Prucha on the Rangers. The Rangers don't have an Eric Staal to play with Skinner, especially not if Gaborik is going the other way. How will that affect his production? Pitkanen's value isn't close to Staal, and McBain's value, while he has been a solid player for you, is likely IN REAL LIFE worth about a high second-round pick. The issue is that if the Rangers are making a trade for the sake of gaining cap-space (which seems to be the issue) to run at Richards in the off-season, and doing so by trading Gaborik, they should be getting a very high-ceiling play-making 1C for him, without adding all the excess pieces (like excellent, young, shut-down defensemen, our own young PMD, a good 2-3C, and what is looking like a high second), all just for an extra $3 mil in cap space, ESPECIALLY when more than half of the key pieces in the deal with have to be let go for free in less than 2 years.

CM Lundqvist 02-12-2011 01:12 PM

This is a HORRENDOUS deal for the Rangers.

1. I know Skinner's having a great rookie year, but you can only HOPE that he turns into Marian Gaborik

2. It's Marian ****ING Gaborik... you're kidding right? I wouldn't give him up for all of that alone, I'd re-structure that deal to have Skinner, McBain, a 1st, and then go from there. Even in this down year, he could still put up 30 goals and 60 or so points.

3. We have to give up Marc Staal on top of that?? You're kidding, right?

4. We give up Anisimov and Del Zotto, and we get back Pitkanen (UFA) and Tuomo Ruutu??? This is a slap in the face to Ranger fans everywhere.

This whole trade sucks for the Rangers, and any Canes fans who wouldn't take this have lost their minds.

Tuomaz 02-12-2011 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipernsx (Post 30857285)
Seriously? You don't get out much huh.

I don't care how crumby of a season Gabby is having, he's still a top10 talent in the league...Skinner is not. If you believe that youth and contract play into factors in overall value fine be consistent.

To rate Staal as significantly less than Pitkanen is just ludicrous and I'm a Pitkanen fan for some time now. If youth and contracts are factors, be consistent, Staal's value increases.

To increase the less thans between Ruutu and Anisimov just multiple the last statement.

Rangers say no.

sadly having top10 talent doesn't win games for you. actually playing maybe


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