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sabresfan123* 02-12-2011 08:04 AM

High Risk High reward Center
 
Thought I would throw this out their. Centers are very thin in the NHL. The one centerwho would be avalaible but is risky is Jason Spezza.

I could see in the offseqson Roy, prospect and our 1st for Spezza(Roy being from the area)

Or Pominville and Stafford for Spezza.......What Ottawa would want is tough to guess but he is one Center avalaible, puts up great offensive numbers BUT has an injury history, Big Salary and is a liqbility defensively. is it worth it

Stafford Spezza Vanek zould be pretty good.

just a thought

LFDM 02-12-2011 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabresfan123 (Post 30854641)
Thought I would throw this out their. Centers are very thin in the NHL. The one centerwho would be avalaible but is risky is Jason Spezza.

I could see in the offseqson Roy, prospect and our 1st for Spezza(Roy being from the area)

Or Pominville and Stafford for Spezza.......What Ottawa would want is tough to guess but he is one Center avalaible, puts up great offensive numbers BUT has an injury history, Big Salary and is a liqbility defensively. is it worth it

Stafford Spezza Vanek zould be pretty good.

just a thought

Roy, prospect and a 1st is horrible. HORRIBLE. It's not even sure if Spezza would be an upgrade over Roy - and even if he is, certainly not by a large margin, worth a prospect and a 1st...

Probably try making a proposal around Connolly? I doubt the Senators would do it... But in a dream world, Connolly and a 1st? I'd take that risk...

sabresfan123* 02-12-2011 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFDM (Post 30854789)
Roy, prospect and a 1st is horrible. HORRIBLE. It's not even sure if Spezza would be an upgrade over Roy - and even if he is, certainly not by a large margin, worth a prospect and a 1st...

Probably try making a proposal around Connolly? I doubt the Senators would do it... But in a dream world, Connolly and a 1st? I'd take that risk...

I live in a real world. Fisher was worth a 1st Spezza >>>>>>> Fisher

Dont get me wrong if you could trade nothing for something then sure but Connolly + 1st is going to get laughed at. Atleast be realistic. Maybe Pomminville, Sekera and a 1st
Roy 469gp 383 pts
Spezza 499gp 497 pts
your right, no upgrade their

Zip15 02-12-2011 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabresfan123 (Post 30855054)
I live in a real world. Fisher was worth a 1st Spezza >>>>>>> Fisher

Dont get me wrong if you could trade nothing for something then sure but Connolly + 1st is going to get laughed at. Atleast be realistic. Maybe Pomminville, Sekera and a 1st
Roy 469gp 383 pts
Spezza 499gp 497 pts
your right, no upgrade their

Last three seasons:

Roy= 174 pts in 197 games (.88 pts/game)
Spezza= 152 pts in 177 games (.86 pts/game)

The last three seasons are far more relevant than what happened prior to that. Add in the fact that Spezza's cap hit ($7.0) is $3 mil per higher than Roy's, and runs for two seasons longer, there's a real question of value there. Do I think Spezza has more natural talent than Roy? Yep. Do I think he's a better value than Roy? No way.

Despite HF Sens' fans protests to the contrary, it doesn't sound like teams are offering much, if anything, for Spezza. Bob McKenzie said this in an article a couple weeks ago:

Quote:

At this time, Jason Spezza's contract is unmovable and the same is probably true of Sergei Gonchar's and Filip Kuba's. Teams calling on any others, including Mike Fisher and Chris Neil, are being told, make us an offer.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=351905

McKenzie isn't a guy to editorialize or state that if he didn't have a good source telling him that they're not able to move Spezza's contract right now. I'd be open to an offer around Pominville, but the ancillary pieces aren't going to be Sekera + 1st.

SundherDome 02-12-2011 09:28 AM

Turris.........
Gagner......
Bailey......
And for some odd reason
Bozak ....

I think they could all be had

BackGroundMusic 02-12-2011 09:30 AM

Roy for Spezza is a bad trade for Buffalo. Chipping in more is therefore worse.

sabresfan123* 02-12-2011 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 30855398)
Last three seasons:

Roy= 174 pts in 197 games (.88 pts/game)
Spezza= 152 pts in 177 games (.86 pts/game)

The last three seasons are far more relevant than what happened prior to that. Add in the fact that Spezza's cap hit ($7.0) is $3 mil per higher than Roy's, and runs for two seasons longer, there's a real question of value there. Do I think Spezza has more natural talent than Roy? Yep. Do I think he's a better value than Roy? No way.

Despite HF Sens' fans protests to the contrary, it doesn't sound like teams are offering much, if anything, for Spezza. Bob McKenzie said this in an article a couple weeks ago:


how about Roy recovering from a bad injury plus this isn't a debate about Roy and Spezza its about Spezza and Roy being your top two centers.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=351905

McKenzie isn't a guy to editorialize or state that if he didn't have a good source telling him that they're not able to move Spezza's contract right now. I'd be open to an offer around Pominville, but the ancillary pieces aren't going to be Sekera + 1st.

how about Roy recovering from a bad injury(What do you think the stats will say after the season? comapring in such ways can be manipulated) plus this isn't a debate about Roy and Spezza its about Spezza and Roy being your top two centers.

LFDM 02-12-2011 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabresfan123 (Post 30855054)
I live in a real world. Fisher was worth a 1st Spezza >>>>>>> Fisher

Dont get me wrong if you could trade nothing for something then sure but Connolly + 1st is going to get laughed at. Atleast be realistic. Maybe Pomminville, Sekera and a 1st
Roy 469gp 383 pts
Spezza 499gp 497 pts
your right, no upgrade their

Of course, the offer is probably laughed at and it's not really realistic - I actually think it's better than your Roy+ proposal...

Your numbers aren't worth a dime - Zip's posting holds much truth.

They're recent offensive numbers are alike, Roy's contract is much much better, and he brings other stuff to the table (don't think Spezza is good at PK? I might be misinformed)

JOHNBOY 02-12-2011 09:45 AM

No thanks on Spezza, didn't want him then when he was good, don't want him now when his play is starting to decline...

Zip15 02-12-2011 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabresfan123 (Post 30855658)
how about Roy recovering from a bad injury(What do you think the stats will say after the season? comapring in such ways can be manipulated) plus this isn't a debate about Roy and Spezza its about Spezza and Roy being your top two centers.

And Spezza's had nagging injuries over the last two seasons, too. I'm not manipulating anything.

Obviously, I'd prefer Spezza and Roy to Spezza or Roy. I was responding to your stat comparison of Roy and Spezza that was misleading because the numbers are skewed because of their statistical differences from four seasons ago and before. They've put up essentially the same numbers since the start of 2008-09. That's a consideration.

Unfortunately, Ottawa isn't going to trade a player of Spezza's ilk within the division for anything less than a major overpayment. An overpayment Buffalo will unlikely be willing to pay given Spezza's contract.

sabresfan123* 02-12-2011 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp (Post 30855586)
Turris.........
Gagner......
Bailey......
And for some odd reason
Bozak ....

I think they could all be had

no no no no, they are all crap. HF sabresfan solution say no no no. Then give no insight to which center will help the sabres. Just say no no no pretend you know something and keep saying no.

Montag DP 02-12-2011 11:41 AM

Let me try to get my head around this.

We need centers. Spezza is a center. Roy is a center as well, who is at least not much worse than Spezza and has a much better contract. So why would we trade Roy + prospect + pick for Spezza?

Jame 02-12-2011 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp (Post 30855586)
Turris.........
Gagner......
Bailey......
And for some odd reason
Bozak ....

I think they could all be had

id like to get Bailey or Turris

JOHNBOY 02-12-2011 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp (Post 30855586)
Turris.........
Gagner......
Bailey......
And for some odd reason
Bozak ....

I think they could all be had

Bailey would be my first choicce but I would be happy if they took a shot at any of those kids on that list...

mgeise 02-12-2011 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 30855398)
Last three seasons:

Roy= 174 pts in 197 games (.88 pts/game)
Spezza= 152 pts in 177 games (.86 pts/game)

The last three seasons are far more relevant than what happened prior to that. Add in the fact that Spezza's cap hit ($7.0) is $3 mil per higher than Roy's, and runs for two seasons longer, there's a real question of value there. Do I think Spezza has more natural talent than Roy? Yep. Do I think he's a better value than Roy? No way.

Despite HF Sens' fans protests to the contrary, it doesn't sound like teams are offering much, if anything, for Spezza. Bob McKenzie said this in an article a couple weeks ago:



http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=351905

McKenzie isn't a guy to editorialize or state that if he didn't have a good source telling him that they're not able to move Spezza's contract right now. I'd be open to an offer around Pominville, but the ancillary pieces aren't going to be Sekera + 1st.

I was going to say basically the same thing, but I'd actually prefer Roy over Spezza because his contract is better. I would really like to pick up Spezza because I think he could be the right center for Vanek and I would love to finally have two very good centers. Pominville+ is what would make sense from our end because trading away Roy for Spezza is a lateral move.

JOHNBOY 02-12-2011 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montag DP (Post 30857962)
Let me try to get my head around this.

We need centers. Spezza is a center. Roy is a center as well, who is at least not much worse than Spezza and has a much better contract. So why would we trade Roy + prospect + pick for Spezza?

IMO Roy is better than Jason, and if not for Dereks injury I wouldn't consider swapping them even if it was Spezza+

Does anyone know offhand what Spezzas injury was?

mgeise 02-12-2011 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHNBOY (Post 30859519)
IMO Roy is better than Jason, and if not for Dereks injury I wouldn't consider swapping them even if it was Spezza+

Does anyone know offhand what Spezzas injury was?

Shoulder

Zip15 02-12-2011 01:00 PM

Though he's not ideal, Andy McDonald could be a decent option depending on price. There's certainly a lot of risk involved, but there's also a decent reward potential. His deal expires after 2012-13. He has a $4.7 cap hit, but he's owed $4.2 mil for each of the final two seasons. He still has talent, and he was the top center on a Cup-winner. The problem, of course, is that he's a soft, talented, oft-injured center. Sound familiar? Over the last three seasons he's played 49, 46, and 79 games, and the most he can play this season is 58 gmaes.

All that said, the price may be low. St. Louis currently sits in 13th place, and for all the talk that they were one of the up-and-coming teams in the league after their hot finish in 2008-09, they're on the verge of missing the playoffs for the second straight season. And with capable centers already on their roster like Backes, Berglund, Steen, and McClement (and Oshie can play the pivot, too), as well as Philip McRae in the pipeline, a budget-conscious team like the Blues may be willing to dump him for cents on the dollar if for no other reason than the cap relief for the next two seasons.

I'd offer something like:

Butler (local boy from St. Louis)
2011 2nd rd pick

for

McDonald

Obviously, most of the value in that deal for the Blues is the cap relief.

JOHNBOY 02-12-2011 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleta36 (Post 30859691)
Shoulder

Thank you, it explains alot why his game has been on the decline. I am really worried about Roys recovery hopefully he can back to 100% even if it means him missing another month or so....

JPurp26 02-12-2011 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 30860122)
Though he's not ideal, Andy McDonald could be a decent option depending on price. There's certainly a lot of risk involved, but there's also a decent reward potential. His deal expires after 2012-13. He has a $4.7 cap hit, but he's owed $4.2 mil for each of the final two seasons. He still has talent, and he was the top center on a Cup-winner. The problem, of course, is that he's a soft, talented, oft-injured center. Sound familiar? Over the last three seasons he's played 49, 46, and 79 games, and the most he can play this season is 58 gmaes.

All that said, the price may be low. St. Louis currently sits in 13th place, and for all the talk that they were one of the up-and-coming teams in the league after their hot finish in 2008-09, they're on the verge of missing the playoffs for the second straight season. And with capable centers already on their roster like Backes, Berglund, Steen, and McClement (and Oshie can play the pivot, too), as well as Philip McRae in the pipeline, a budget-conscious team like the Blues may be willing to dump him for cents on the dollar if for no other reason than the cap relief for the next two seasons.

I'd offer something like:

Butler (local boy from St. Louis)
2011 2nd rd pick

for

McDonald

Obviously, most of the value in that deal for the Blues is the cap relief.

I agree, McDonald is a good playmaking center. I would look for a package to get McDonald and Brewer

Zip15 02-12-2011 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPurp26 (Post 30861220)
I agree, McDonald is a good playmaking center. I would look for a package to get McDonald and Brewer

I posted a "Value of: Andy McDonald to Buffalo" thread on the main board. And, essentially, the few Blues fans who've responded make it sound like he's an untouchable. Which I find more than a little odd. But I suppose I'm in no position to poke fun at teams who are unwilling to alter their cores after failing to miss the playoffs in consecutive seasons. ;)

Armond White 02-12-2011 03:55 PM

Spezza is a waste at $8 million for two more years (and another year at $5 million after that). He mooched points off Heatley and Alfredsson back in the day and is as soft as Connolly. He'd suffer the same fate here as Connolly did, except at nearly twice the price. No thanks.

BUCKSHOT 02-12-2011 05:34 PM

might as well forget about Spezza ....

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=876564

Buffalo87 02-12-2011 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armond White (Post 30864979)
Spezza is a waste at $8 million for two more years (and another year at $5 million after that). He mooched points off Heatley and Alfredsson back in the day and is as soft as Connolly. He'd suffer the same fate here as Connolly did, except at nearly twice the price. No thanks.

Spezza is WAY better tahn Connolly.

Has he had injury issues? Sure.

Is he soft? Sure.

Can he be a very good #1 C? Absolutely, and he's proven it in the past. I would absolutely kick the tires if he truly was available. I think trading Roy+ for him is counter productive as I'm not sure he's a real upgrade on Roy right at this moment (though he does have to potential to be a significant upgrade on him).



Another guy I would've loved to of gotten (though I had no idea he was available) is Frolik. I believe he played mostly RW in Florida but he was drafted as a C and is going to be tried back at C in Chicago. He's big, he's talented, and he has very high potential.

Also, Peter Mueller would be a HUGE risk but again, the reward is also VERY high.

Other guys I'd like:

Valteri Filppula
Sam Gagner
Tyler Bozak
Kyle Turris
Derrick Brassard
Bryan Little
Artem Anisimov

Chainshot 02-12-2011 08:04 PM

Kicking the tires on Spezza? Sure. It isn't impossible to think that the Sens move a bigger contract out as part of their overhaul, particularly if it was for more than what they obtained in the Fisher deal. He's had injury issues a some bad luck in the last few years, but he's a big man who can create for his linemates like few in the league. Given how the Sabres have three guys with finish on the wing in Vanek, Pominville, and Stafford, what's wrong with at least looking into if a rebuilding team could be interested in moving an expensive, older piece out for financial savings and as a way to restock with youngsters.


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