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-   -   Proposal: Bos - Chi (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=878513)

Bubba88 02-16-2011 04:17 AM

Bos - Chi
 
:bruins
Brent Seabrook

:hawks
Mark Stuart
TOR 1st (11)
BOS 3rd (12)



Bruins get a Upgrade on D, still have a 1st but lose a Top6 Pick.

Hawks get a #4-#6 D-Men, a good Pick + another Pick for next year. With 3 2nd Rounders and enough assets + Cap Room, the Hawks can add a physical #2-#4 D-Men who can play PK and in our Top as Rental or maybe longer.

Blackhawkswincup 02-16-2011 06:06 AM

That deal basically would be equivalent to 97 White Flag trade (With White Sox)

I would be sick seeing it as I was when White Flag happened and this years draft and uncertainty over when Leafs will pick + Stuarts UFA status makes it even more a bad move

-Stuart's upside at this point is #4 dman but he is more likely just a career #5
- The chances that Leafs pick is as good as Seabrook aren't that good
- 3rd rounder = Meh ,,, We already have 2 (Hawks and Leafs)

Value just isn't there for Hawks

Dr Quincy 02-16-2011 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup (Post 30965562)
That deal basically would be equivalent to 97 White Flag trade (With White Sox)

I would be sick seeing it as I was when White Flag happened and this years draft and uncertainty over when Leafs will pick + Stuarts UFA status makes it even more a bad move

-Stuart's upside at this point is #4 dman but he is more likely just a career #5
- The chances that Leafs pick is as good as Seabrook aren't that good
- 3rd rounder = Meh ,,, We already have 2 (Hawks and Leafs)

Value just isn't there for Hawks

I think you even value Stuart more than the B's do. He's been a healthy scratch several times.

HockeySensible 02-16-2011 07:35 AM

Me and Mr. David Krejic already worked this deal out.

Chicago gets:

Boychuk
TOR 1st

Boston gets:

Brent Seabrook

thadd 02-16-2011 08:14 AM

It's a good deal for both IMO. Chicago needs to get another d-man somewhere down the line, though. Maybe they could take that 1st rounder and Campbell and trade it for another experienced d-man who's got more bang for his buck in his contract...

DisgruntledHawkFan 02-16-2011 09:03 AM

Would want more back then a third round pick, but that's close.

KrugLife 02-16-2011 09:33 AM

I'd do it. What's Seabrook's exact terms and cap hit?

BruinsBtn 02-16-2011 09:34 AM

That seems steep for Seabrook. He's not having a great year.

Oates2Neely 02-16-2011 09:42 AM

Yes. Just let him know #7 & #77 are retired in Beantown, perhaps #27?

Tim Vezina Thomas 02-16-2011 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oates2Neely (Post 30967991)
Yes. Just let him know #7 & #77 are retired in Beantown, perhaps #27?

You forgot about Glen Murray. Duh.

Oates2Neely 02-16-2011 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas (Post 30968015)
You forgot about Glen Murray. Duh.

Ahh the glory days..Muzz & Stumpel.. Boy we've come a long way!

Blackhawkswincup 02-16-2011 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsButton (Post 30967818)
That seems steep for Seabrook. He's not having a great year.

^
That is false

On track for career high in pts and after shaky start to season has been playing good for sometime now

Dr Danglefest 02-16-2011 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Quincy (Post 30965645)
I think you even value Stuart more than the B's do. He's been a healthy scratch several times.

not true, he's actually spot on i think, he's coming off an injury and while he was injured every member of the blueline has been solid, making it tough to move anyone off of it. Not to mention he is a pending UFA so it limits his trade value a little

Sarava 02-16-2011 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup (Post 30965562)
That deal basically would be equivalent to 97 White Flag trade (With White Sox)

I would be sick seeing it as I was when White Flag happened and this years draft and uncertainty over when Leafs will pick + Stuarts UFA status makes it even more a bad move

-Stuart's upside at this point is #4 dman but he is more likely just a career #5
- The chances that Leafs pick is as good as Seabrook aren't that good
- 3rd rounder = Meh ,,, We already have 2 (Hawks and Leafs)

Value just isn't there for Hawks

The Sox were in 2nd place when the white flag trade went down, not 11th place like the Hawks are in now. Slight difference :laugh:

I would do this trade but only if the Hawks deem Seabrook unsignable. The Hawks are obviously going to have to retool a few things because the current roster is just too top heavy. There's plenty of defense prospects that will be cracking the Hawks lineup very soon to make up for losing Seabrook. The physical game the Hawks lose will hurt in the short term, and they possibly could look to fill that need over the summer via free agency or trades since some cap space would open up.

Having the pick from Toronto (it looks like it will be anywhere from #5 to #9 overall) could open up a lot of things. Like possibly packaging Toronto's #1 with our own #1 (it would be #12 as of right now) to move in to the top 4 and grab a future 2nd line center in RNH or Couturier?

Dr Danglefest 02-16-2011 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba88 (Post 30965289)
:bruins
Brent Seabrook

:hawks
Mark Stuart
TOR 1st (11)
BOS 3rd (12)



Bruins get a Upgrade on D, still have a 1st but lose a Top6 Pick.

Hawks get a #4-#6 D-Men, a good Pick + another Pick for next year. With 3 2nd Rounders and enough assets + Cap Room, the Hawks can add a physical #2-#4 D-Men who can play PK and in our Top as Rental or maybe longer.

as great as seabrook is, he is a defensive dman which we have plenty of as it is, if we are going to aquire a dman that is a pending RFA that will cash in at season's end while trading a potential lottery pick i would much rather get a PMD which is our #1 need

Blackhawkswincup 02-16-2011 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarava (Post 30972153)
The Sox were in 2nd place when the white flag trade went down, not 11th place like the Hawks are in now. Slight difference :laugh:

I would do this trade but only if the Hawks deem Seabrook unsignable. The Hawks are obviously going to have to retool a few things because the current roster is just too top heavy. There's plenty of defense prospects that will be cracking the Hawks lineup very soon to make up for losing Seabrook. The physical game the Hawks lose will hurt in the short term, and they possibly could look to fill that need over the summer via free agency or trades since some cap space would open up.

Having the pick from Toronto (it looks like it will be anywhere from #5 to #9 overall) could open up a lot of things. Like possibly packaging Toronto's #1 with our own #1 (it would be #12 as of right now) to move in to the top 4 and grab a future 2nd line center in RNH or Couturier?

^
The White Sox were 3 1/2 games out of 1st place ,,, The Hawks are 4 pts out of playoff spot

Very similiar

And Toronto's pick is not going to be top 5 at rate season is going so there is no point and we wont be getting RNH or Couturier in draft and like I said there is no guarantee that pick amounts to anything

Seabrook is proven NHL player who hasn't even reached his prime

If he is traded it better be for better then a UFA dman , 5-9 pick and a 3rd round pick

Blackhawkswincup 02-16-2011 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Danglefest (Post 30972236)
as great as seabrook is, he is a defensive dman which we have plenty of as it is, if we are going to aquire a dman that is a pending RFA that will cash in at season's end while trading a potential lottery pick i would much rather get a PMD which is our #1 need

Seabrook is a good passer and skater

He isn't a pure PMD but he would help your transition game and his offensive potential is stil there for bigger #'s

Right now he is on pace for career year in pts with 45-50 likely his end total on season

Sarava 02-16-2011 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup (Post 30972277)
^
The White Sox were 3 1/2 games out of 1st place ,,, The Hawks are 4 pts out of playoff spot

Very similiar

And Toronto's pick is not going to be top 5 at rate season is going so there is no point and we wont be getting RNH or Couturier in draft and like I said there is no guarantee that pick amounts to anything

Seabrook is proven NHL player who hasn't even reached his prime

If he is traded it better be for better then a UFA dman , 5-9 pick and a 3rd round pick

I was actually living in the Cleveland area when the white flag trade went down. Let's be honest - the Sox weren't going to catch the tribe that year. That Cleveland team played with the Sox all season that year. the Sox would get in sniffing range, and cleveland would turn it back on and open it up. The Sox make a move again - same thing. It was a depressing pattern of futility.

I would actually rate the Hawks chances of making the playoffs this year better than the Sox chances were in 97. So yeah - your point is made there.

But it goes back to your thread on the Hawks forum - can we keep Seabs or do we need to move him? I don't like the idea of going in to next year with 6 or 7 crazy high paid guys and a bunch of borderline NHL talent scrubs like Stalberg backing them up again.

My saying we could go for RNH or Couturier...the idea was to trade the Toronto and Chicago #1's to move up. I know they won't be there with Toronto's pick - unless Toronto collapses and is in the top 4 (highly unlikely). Don't you think a team would listen hard if say the #7 overall and #13 overall (where they fall exactly is to be determined obviously) were offered for the #3 or #4 overall? I don't think that's terribly unrealistic.

If the Hawks were able to pull that off, our center problems would be over within a couple of years. Between Kruger, Kevin Hayes (who has played center at BC this year) and RNH or Couturier - I'm sure one of them would pan out well enough to be the #2 center behind Toews. From there, if the Hawks can lock up the right guys in a timely basis to be able to afford them longterm (or semi-longterm), we would pretty much be set at defense and center for the next 5+ years and could focus on trying to pluck some skilled wingers out of future drafts.

Blackhawkswincup 02-16-2011 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarava (Post 30972627)
I was actually living in the Cleveland area when the white flag trade went down. Let's be honest - the Sox weren't going to catch the tribe that year. That Cleveland team played with the Sox all season that year. the Sox would get in sniffing range, and cleveland would turn it back on and open it up. The Sox make a move again - same thing. It was a depressing pattern of futility.

I would actually rate the Hawks chances of making the playoffs this year better than the Sox chances were in 97. So yeah - your point is made there.

But it goes back to your thread on the Hawks forum - can we keep Seabs or do we need to move him? I don't like the idea of going in to next year with 6 or 7 crazy high paid guys and a bunch of borderline NHL talent scrubs like Stalberg backing them up again.

My saying we could go for RNH or Couturier...the idea was to trade the Toronto and Chicago #1's to move up. I know they won't be there with Toronto's pick - unless Toronto collapses and is in the top 4 (highly unlikely). Don't you think a team would listen hard if say the #7 overall and #13 overall (where they fall exactly is to be determined obviously) were offered for the #3 or #4 overall? I don't think that's terribly unrealistic.

If the Hawks were able to pull that off, our center problems would be over within a couple of years. Between Kruger, Kevin Hayes (who has played center at BC this year) and RNH or Couturier - I'm sure one of them would pan out well enough to be the #2 center behind Toews. From there, if the Hawks can lock up the right guys in a timely basis to be able to afford them longterm (or semi-longterm), we would pretty much be set at defense and center for the next 5+ years and could focus on trying to pluck some skilled wingers out of future drafts.

White Sox finished 6 games back that year ,,, Indians weren't that good

The division was in reach especially if Sox would have acquired a quality bat to add to lineup and a mid rotation starter

Your hoping a bunch of ? mean something

Prospects are hit or miss

Ironically as that trade showed when only 1 of 6 prospects White Sox got actually became a quality MLB player (Foulke)

Everyone penciling in Hayes , Kruger or others in as some part of our future are unrealistic

Players bust ,, You cant hope and pray that a prospect can play a major role in our future when they haven't shown anything at NHL level

Sarava 02-16-2011 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup (Post 30972784)
White Sox finished 6 games back that year ,,, Indians weren't that good

The division was in reach especially if Sox would have acquired a quality bat to add to lineup and a mid rotation starter

Your hoping a bunch of ? mean something

Prospects are hit or miss

Ironically as that trade showed when only 1 of 6 prospects White Sox got actually became a quality MLB player (Foulke)

Everyone penciling in Hayes , Kruger or others in as some part of our future are unrealistic

Players bust ,, You cant hope and pray that a prospect can play a major role in our future when they haven't shown anything at NHL level

Howry had a decent career as a reliever also.

As for penciling in prospects as future #2 centers, that's exactly why I want to make moves like this. If I felt confidant that Hayes or Kruger could lock down the #2 center role, I wouldn't want to do this. Adding an RNH or Courturier enhances our chances greatly of having that #2 center within a few years.

The problem here is the reason we may have to trade Seabrook is cap problems. So trading him for an established NHL player with similar value only puts us in the same position that we're already in.

I think the idea is to hit on some really good young players who play cheap for at least 3 years and probably a little longer than that. That's what this team needs to find while it has high priced contracts like Hossa's, Keith's, Campbell's, Toews' and Kaners on the books.

dredeye 02-16-2011 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Danglefest (Post 30972236)
as great as seabrook is, he is a defensive dman which we have plenty of as it is, if we are going to aquire a dman that is a pending RFA that will cash in at season's end while trading a potential lottery pick i would much rather get a PMD which is our #1 need

agreed. Seabrook would be a nice addition to any team really but his contract status scares me. We need to avoid backing ourselves into a corner down the road.


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