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-   -   In all seriousness, what should be this teams direction? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=880490)

Amd 02-20-2011 08:55 AM

In all seriousness, what should be this teams direction?
 
I keep reading about people stating that it is time to just blow it up. Pack it in, sell what we can and get what we can get. On the other hand, I see some that keep trying to post trade proposals for our junk that no one else would really need or touch.

What is the general consensus hear? This team is not terrible, it is just lacking in consistant scoring help and definitely some set up people in the middle. The wingers are not playing position, they are playing roles. The defense is jumping into the rush and getting caught out of place far to much. At the same time, we have some players that can bring you the help in a trade, but their contracts are not to decent.

My theory is that the below three players would be trade candidates to teams that are already in the playoff picture lookig for some experienced depth. The problem is their contracts.

Jason Pominville is inconsistant and can not be counted on. However, his contract is untradeable unless it is packaged with a prospect or a high pick. He is 133rd in the league in scoring and I can guarantee that there is probably on 30 players in the league that are making more then him.

Paul Gaustad is over paid. His contract would be decent to a team needing specifically what he can bring. Second level PK, a physical game once every ten games or so, but most of all key draws in their own end. However if you package him also with a prospect and a pick, you split the cost so to speak.

Hecht. Hecht would be an easily tradeable commodity if he was to be a UFA at the end of this season.

This is just my start at bad contract players. Players that are not playing up to their caliber.

Players that you move no matter what:

Connolly- UFA take what you can get. If no one is offering you anything but a fourth leading up to deadline day, take it. I would imagine he is worth substantially more, but he better not be on this roster February 29th.

Gerbe- Gone. We have to many players of his stature. Between Byron and Ennis, we simply can not afford to keep going this way in the future.

Grier- As much as I like him, if hewe have the opportunity and he agrees, move him. He is the exact type of player that a Stanley Cup contender adds and overpays a 3rd or late 2nd for sometimes.

Enroth- If the return is good with a younger decent goalie prospect coming back in the return package, it is done. Notice I said package. We need a goalie to promote to Portland that has possible NHL caliber skills.

Defenseman- Do something. Even if it is wrong. I am sick of sitting on two healthy scratches on defense every night when teams like Vancouver need depth.

The bottom line is even if we had made some little moves, we could have gained some picks or mid level prospects. Mid level prospects keep Portland a float while we are yanking the talent out of there.

I am interested to see what others have to add and where they really see this team at and where it needs to go.

I can not see blowing it up. In order to do so, you have to either trade the bad contracts and let all current UFA's go except maybe Montador. (and I trade him if the price is right. He was never as good as he is without playing with Leopold). Either that or I consider buying Pommers out and giveing the money to Drew. Maybe at least trying to make a push for Richards in the off season if he is available and the price does not get ridiculously inflated which I am sure it will.

The team needs some addition by subtraction and then at least two decent centers. One number one and a young 3rd/future 2nd line center.

Chainshot 02-20-2011 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amd (Post 31080656)
I keep reading about people stating that it is time to just blow it up. Pack it in, sell what we can and get what we can get. On the other hand, I see some that keep trying to post trade proposals for our junk that no one else would really need or touch.

What is the general consensus hear? This team is not terrible, it is just lacking in consistant scoring help and definitely some set up people in the middle. The wingers are not playing position, they are playing roles. The defense is jumping into the rush and getting caught out of place far to much. At the same time, we have some players that can bring you the help in a trade, but their contracts are not to decent.

My theory is that the below three players would be trade candidates to teams that are already in the playoff picture lookig for some experienced depth. The problem is their contracts.

Jason Pominville is inconsistant and can not be counted on. However, his contract is untradeable unless it is packaged with a prospect or a high pick. He is 133rd in the league in scoring and I can guarantee that there is probably on 30 players in the league that are making more then him.

Having just watched Pominville put up a stretch of 12-17-29 in 31 games, there is something of falsehood to the bolded comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amd (Post 31080656)
Paul Gaustad is over paid. His contract would be decent to a team needing specifically what he can bring. Second level PK, a physical game once every ten games or so, but most of all key draws in their own end. However if you package him also with a prospect and a pick, you split the cost so to speak.

If he's on the market, I suspect he fetches a slightly lesser return than Chris Kelly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amd (Post 31080656)
Hecht. Hecht would be an easily tradeable commodity if he was to be a UFA at the end of this season.

No, Hecht is set to be a UFA after next season. I have no issue putting him into a possible deal if they decide to sell -- his return value should be on par with or better than Chris Kelly's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amd (Post 31080656)
This is just my start at bad contract players. Players that are not playing up to their caliber.

Players that you move no matter what:

Connolly- UFA take what you can get. If no one is offering you anything but a fourth leading up to deadline day, take it. I would imagine he is worth substantially more, but he better not be on this roster February 29th.

I would trade Connolly to any taker. With some centers already in play, he might be the best one currently available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amd (Post 31080656)
Gerbe- Gone. We have to many players of his stature. Between Byron and Ennis, we simply can not afford to keep going this way in the future.

Interesting, given he's gone 7-7-14 in the last 22 games. He's actually starting to produce while not being a defensive liability. Offset with a player of size who is willing and able to use it (McCormick), they've had some dynamite forechecking shifts that set the table for the rest of the team. Perhaps putting him into a deal over the summer... but right now? They have no one to take those minutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amd (Post 31080656)
Grier- As much as I like him, if hewe have the opportunity and he agrees, move him. He is the exact type of player that a Stanley Cup contender adds and overpays a 3rd or late 2nd for sometimes.

Maybe a 3rd at most... can't see someone offering more than that for a 4th liner. Add in his NMC and it would have to be a fit both for the team offering and the player to make that happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amd (Post 31080656)
Enroth- If the return is good with a younger decent goalie prospect coming back in the return package, it is done. Notice I said package. We need a goalie to promote to Portland that has possible NHL caliber skills.

Why would they trade one young goaltender for another? They seem content to continue grooming Enroth to be Miller's eventual backup and despite a meager handful of quality NHL starts, Enroth is not going to command much in trade value from anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amd (Post 31080656)
Defenseman- Do something. Even if it is wrong. I am sick of sitting on two healthy scratches on defense every night when teams like Vancouver need depth.

With Montador and Rivet UFA, plus Butler a shell of his initial self, they have some pieces to move on the backend. It seems likely this will be a point they make a move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amd (Post 31080656)
The bottom line is even if we had made some little moves, we could have gained some picks or mid level prospects. Mid level prospects keep Portland a float while we are yanking the talent out of there.

I am interested to see what others have to add and where they really see this team at and where it needs to go.

The core of the team needs to be changed for the long-term objective of hoisting the Cup. It remains to be seen who the new ownership brings in at an executive level, and then at a GM level to make that happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amd (Post 31080656)
I can not see blowing it up. In order to do so, you have to either trade the bad contracts and let all current UFA's go except maybe Montador. (and I trade him if the price is right. He was never as good as he is without playing with Leopold). Either that or I consider buying Pommers out and giveing the money to Drew. Maybe at least trying to make a push for Richards in the off season if he is available and the price does not get ridiculously inflated which I am sure it will.

The team needs some addition by subtraction and then at least two decent centers. One number one and a young 3rd/future 2nd line center.


Buying out Pominville? :facepalm: So you're willing to waste money and cap space galore on a guy who up to this season's concussion was fairly consistent (and has shown in the last 3/8ths of a season to be back in form)? Weird.

Blowing it up would mean putting the core guys on the block -- Miller, Vanek, Roy (likely surpressed value since he's hurt and untradeable until summer), Stafford. Retooling, reshaping the roster with new talent is going to require a number of moves.

You haven't mentioned putting a guy like Stafford into the mix -- he's been here throughout the post-lockout era and is "core" but is also likely valueable. If they're making major moves, putting his name out there is a must to see what sort of return they could yield. Hell, even in a retool, he could offer a sizeable return that could be used to fill their areas of need.

gaf 02-20-2011 10:39 AM

time to re-tool. Obviously there are some good assets here, but its time for a shift. With a new owner and possibly new gm and coach- it'll be interesting to see what happens.

S319R11S16 02-20-2011 10:48 AM

Keeping it short, but I think the best bet isn't to mail it in for the season per say but to look for players extended beyond this season.

Grier and Niedermayer are useless.
Connolly can be a key deadline piece and definitely should be down to his last 20-30 games as a Sabre.
I like Montador a lot but it should be a priority to see how much he likes it here. If its certain he will return next year then I say keep him, but if not... he can bring a decent return and I'd let him go.

I'm not saying move these guys for picks that we wont see here in the next few years... but if these guys can bring a decent return that you can flip to bring in other players who are extended past this season then I think that should be your top priority.

Getting rid of Grier, Niedermayer (if anyone even wants him) and Connolly doesn't mean we are mailing it in this season. We would just need to be sure that we can some how bring in players who are signed past this season. Ya don't have to blow everything up to make some moves for the future.

Duddy 02-20-2011 11:29 AM

the right one

joshjull 02-20-2011 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amd (Post 31080656)
My theory is that the below three players would be trade candidates to teams that are already in the playoff picture lookig for some experienced depth. The problem is their contracts.

Quote:

Jason Pominville is inconsistant and can not be counted on. However, his contract is untradeable unless it is packaged with a prospect or a high pick. He is 133rd in the league in scoring and I can guarantee that there is probably on 30 players in the league that are making more then him.
For informational purposes, Pommer is the 64th highest paid player.

I think he would be hard to trade more because of his NMC than his salary.

Quote:

Paul Gaustad is over paid. His contract would be decent to a team needing specifically what he can bring. Second level PK, a physical game once every ten games or so, but most of all key draws in their own end. However if you package him also with a prospect and a pick, you split the cost so to speak.
How overpaid is Goose in your mind? 500+K?

You're going to throw away a pick + prospect to help get rid of a player that fills a role we need filled? All because you feel he makes 500-800k more than you feel he should?

Does that make any sense?

Quote:

Hecht. Hecht would be an easily tradeable commodity if he was to be a UFA at the end of this season.
I don't have as big of an issue with Hecht as many others do. We also don't have a player ready to take his place that can do all the things he does.


Quote:

This is just my start at bad contract players. Players that are not playing up to their caliber.

Players that you move no matter what:
Quote:

Connolly- UFA take what you can get. If no one is offering you anything but a fourth leading up to deadline day, take it. I would imagine he is worth substantially more, but he better not be on this roster February 29th.
I'd rather have stability at cetner down the stretch trying to make the playoffs than a 4th rounder. But if someone is willing to overpay for him I would likely change my mind.


Quote:

Gerbe- Gone. We have to many players of his stature. Between Byron and Ennis, we simply can not afford to keep going this way in the future.

I think his value is as high as its going to be and now is a good time to move him. But I wouldn't move him for just anything as you're suggesting.


Quote:

Grier- As much as I like him, if hewe have the opportunity and he agrees, move him. He is the exact type of player that a Stanley Cup contender adds and overpays a 3rd or late 2nd for sometimes.
I'm torn on this one. But I'm leaning towards keeping him.

Quote:

Enroth- If the return is good with a younger decent goalie prospect coming back in the return package, it is done. Notice I said package. We need a goalie to promote to Portland that has possible NHL caliber skills.
I'm not trading Enroth.


Quote:

Defenseman- Do something. Even if it is wrong. I am sick of sitting on two healthy scratches on defense every night when teams like Vancouver need depth.
I agree they should trade some of their defensive depth for help. Not on board with the do something, even if its wrong. :laugh:


Quote:

The bottom line is even if we had made some little moves, we could have gained some picks or mid level prospects. Mid level prospects keep Portland a float while we are yanking the talent out of there.

I am interested to see what others have to add and where they really see this team at and where it needs to go.

I can not see blowing it up. In order to do so, you have to either trade the bad contracts and let all current UFA's go except maybe Montador. (and I trade him if the price is right. He was never as good as he is without playing with Leopold). Either that or I consider buying Pommers out and giveing the money to Drew. Maybe at least trying to make a push for Richards in the off season if he is available and the price does not get ridiculously inflated which I am sure it will.

The team needs some addition by subtraction and then at least two decent centers. One number one and a young 3rd/future 2nd line center.
I think we need to shift our organizational depth from the defense and wings to center. They may not be able to get a top 6 center but a few 2/3 centers would be good targets.

I would also like to see top 4 defensive dmen targeted. We've had a drop off in defensive play in the top 4 with the losses of Tallinder/Lydman.


I've always felt the best time to do this would be the off season. But with the recent flurry of trades that aren't for rentals. We may be able to make some changes now.

SuperNintendoChalmrs 02-20-2011 11:43 AM

sell sell sell

:nod:


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