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-   -   Where do you stand on the youth movement and the current state of the union (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=880620)

Machinehead 02-20-2011 02:47 PM

Where do you stand on the youth movement and the current state of the union
 
Some say we're definitely going in the right direction, we'll be a contender soon, and we should be patient. Others view the supposed movement as a veil to keep the fans hopeful, and therefore coming to the arena, while the team continues to sputter. Your thoughts on the matter?

SingnBluesOnBroadway 02-20-2011 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinehead (Post 31089449)
Some say we're definitely going in the right direction, we'll be a contender soon, and we should be patient. Others view the supposed movement as a veil to keep the fans hopeful, and therefore coming to the arena, while the team continues to sputter. Your thoughts on the matter?

I fail to see what the idea that they will be a contender soon is based on.

FOXHOUND* 02-20-2011 02:51 PM

Sell and tank. Play youth.

Machinehead 02-20-2011 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 31089507)
I fail to see what the idea that they will be a contender soon is based on.

Major holes must be filled, that's for sure. The team has alot of positives, but the negatives still outweigh the positives in my opinion. That's not gonna work, for any team, in any sport.

BlueshirtBlitz 02-20-2011 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 31089507)
I fail to see what the idea that they will be a contender soon is based on.

We have a great supporting cast with a good and deep prospect farm.

We also have a great defense, IMO, and it will only be bolstered by:

1- MDZ developing and touching his potential
2- The other guys getting experience.

We need a legitimate first line to become contenders, that's really it.

X-Richards-Gaborik.

I think our future hinges on Richards, and Drury/Redden retiring.

ruckus* 02-20-2011 02:53 PM

Torts' macro organizational philosophy is a good one.

As an in game head coach he's an abomination.

Just an absolute disaster.

The sooner we get him out the better. Just make sure we bring in someone who continues with this youth philosophy.

But damn. Torts is atrocious in game.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 02-20-2011 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinehead (Post 31089584)
Major holes must be filled, that's for sure. The team has alot of positives, but the negatives still outweigh the positives in my opinion. That's not gonna work, for any team, in any sport.

They have major holes. Unfortunately, they have a GM that has shown to be better at creating major holes than he is at filling them. Until that changes, I don't see them as being close to being contenders.

nyrfan519 02-20-2011 02:54 PM

The youth movement is a good thing. However, we need more elite, young offensive talent (obviously this is very difficult to obtain). We have a lot of good prospects, many of whom we should hold on to and develop, but I don't think very many of them project to be 80+ point guys.

NYGBleedBlueNYR 02-20-2011 02:54 PM

Team is sloppy & slow far too often. No system, no semblance of plays or knowing where your teammates are going. Just slapping the puck around the ice & backing up in our own zone.

That's on the coach IMO.

Team had plenty of youth. Needs more skill. Needs more time for development.

Machinehead 02-20-2011 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz (Post 31089591)
We have a great supporting cast with a good and deep prospect farm.

We need a legitimate first line to become contenders, that's really it.

X-Richards-Gaborik.

I think our future hinges on Richards, and Drury/Redden retiring.

Sorry, but I can't stand the idea of our future hinging on a guy who's never worn blue, with whom we have no guarantee of even obtaining. That's not how you run a hockey club. A smart GM has his future in his own system, with the support coming from elsewhere. We're trying to do it the other way around.

CaptainCallahan* 02-20-2011 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robruckus (Post 31089611)
Torts' macro organizational philosophy is a good one.

As an in game head coach he's an abomination.

Just an absolute disaster.

The sooner we get him out the better. Just make sure we bring in someone who continues with this youth philosophy.

But damn. Torts is atrocious in game.

GM Tortorella?

BlueshirtBlitz 02-20-2011 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robruckus (Post 31089611)
Torts' macro organizational philosophy is a good one.

As an in game head coach he's an abomination.

Just an absolute disaster.

The sooner we get him out the better. Just make sure we bring in someone who continues with this youth philosophy.

But damn. Torts is atrocious in game.


Are you going to explain why?

Because, past the power-play, the way Torts coached this team pre-Vancouver was great.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 02-20-2011 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz (Post 31089591)
We have a great supporting cast with a good and deep prospect farm.

We need a legitimate first line to become contenders, that's really it.

X-Richards-Gaborik.

I think our future hinges on Richards, and Drury/Redden retiring.

Again, craving capspace for a guy who has shown he's miserable at managing capspace.

Right now Gaborik has to be seen as a question mark.

The prospect pool may be deep, but it still lacks true top end talent.

Rangers44* 02-20-2011 02:55 PM

Trade Gaborik first chance we get. He is unreliable scoring and healthwise.

ruckus* 02-20-2011 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCallahan (Post 31089667)
GM Tortorella?

Honestly outside of games I agree with almost everything he says.

It's in game that I just can't believe what I'm seeing. It's mind boggling how bad he is.

Not to mention how many people proclaimed Renney and Pearn were the reason our PP sucked and Torts was the savior.

That's worked out well too.

Machinehead 02-20-2011 02:58 PM

The first line isn't even my number one concern. To me this team needs a defensemen in the worst way, more than anything else. Not a PPQB either. They need a big, ugly, ornery, mean, sociopathic, nasty mother ****er who likes to dismember people. Almost every goal we give up involves a guy standing right in front of hank, be it a deflection or a rebound or a screen. We need someone who will teach opponents the hard way that that **** won't fly.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 02-20-2011 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangers44 (Post 31089684)
Trade Gaborik first chance we get. He is unreliable scoring and healthwise.

Sounds like just the kind of player teams are looking to acquire. His value is low now. His cap hit is not.

Machinehead 02-20-2011 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 31089770)
Sounds like just the kind of player teams are looking to acquire. His value is low now. His cap hit is not.

Sather logic, must be spreading through the air. Stay indoors.

Rangers44* 02-20-2011 03:00 PM

What happened to "safe is death" mentallity? It looks like it only applies to his personnel dicisions like the pairing of Gilroy and DZ.

BlueshirtBlitz 02-20-2011 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 31089679)
Again, craving capspace for a guy who has shown he's miserable at managing capspace.

Right now Gaborik has to be seen as a question mark.

The prospect pool may be deep, but it still lacks true top end talent.

What do you want us to do, though? You have to assume Sather isn't going to be incompetent and actually do something right, at some point.

I'd laugh at you if you said Gaborik was a question mark yesterday because of this season only, but with the concussion you're right.

That being said, you have to assume our first rounder in Chris Kreider will eventually be able to handle 1st or 2nd line duties. That allows you to put him or Dubi in the top LW slot, which paired with Brad Richards will be fine.

If we had elite talent in the prospect pool we would've been contenders already, and wouldn't need Richards and Gaborik, but the fact is we have a good prospect pool and that pushes us closer to being contenders.

SERE 24 02-20-2011 03:01 PM

We are headed in the right direction.

People are very impatient. We have a good foundation, some promising players, a hard-working identity that the majority of guys seem to have bought into, and we are on the cusp of cutting free some serious dead weight and having the space to improve.

Guys like Stepan, Zuccarello, Sauer, McDonagh (all in their first season) and than Anisimov, Del Zotto (sophomores) have varying degrees of potential. We have Kreider, Thomas, McIlrath and a couple of other prospects who may turn out to be something as well.

Guys like Dubinsky, Staal, Callahan, Girardi, Lundqvist and to lesser degress Boyle and Prust pretty much are at/near their peak, but have all become very good players for us.

What needs to happen now, is we need to make some tough decisions. Hopefully we can afford to add Richards this summer/rid ourselves of Drury. If we have to have another year of Drury, that slows us down.

We need to deal some of what we've got to add something that we don't have. Maybe a Wolski/Anisimov/Del Zotto combination to bring in a legitimate offensive threat. Do I want to see AA or MDZ dealt? Not necessarily, but you've got to give to get and we can't keep everyone and improve.

I basically think the next 4 (this off-season) to 16 (next off-season) months will determine just about everything. Will we add Richards this season (thereby probably losing Drury)? Will we make a trade that will actually give up quality to get quality, or keep going for the low risk/high reward gambles? Gaborik likely won't be traded this year, but will he last another season in NY? Will Stepan have a MDZ kind of second season or will he continue to progress? Does McD become the stud he looks like he'll be? Does Kreider turn pro?

I think it's all about this off-season and the following. I'd like to see us rid ourselves of Drury this off-season and not have to wait until next season, as I think that will dramatically accelerate/slow down the process. We'll see.

nyrfan519 02-20-2011 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangers44 (Post 31089828)
What happened to "safe is death" mentallity? It looks like it only applies to his personnel dicisions like the pairing of Gilroy and DZ.

This team doesn't have enough talent to play that way.

JimmyStart* 02-20-2011 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 31089618)
They have major holes. Unfortunately, they have a GM that has shown to be better at creating major holes than he is at filling them. Until that changes, I don't see them as being close to being contenders.

We drafted quite a few guys now who are playing some really well. We've won enough games with these guys as our main pieces when they are only rooks and soph's. We also have some vets who are also young and are carrying the team in this their first real year being the leaders of the pack (Dubs, girardi, Staal, Cally) We have Hank. Add a 80-90 pt player to this team this year or hell 1 other 60 pt guy really and we are easily the 4th seed right now. Possibly the 1st.

Now we have to hope we actually manage to get that 80-90 pt player. I don't blame anyone if they are skepticval we can get that player...I even understand if some fans say "Makes sense but I just won't believe it till I actually see it work." But I really don't get the whole "I don't see any reason to be hopeful" type of opinion. makes no sense to me.

BlueshirtBlitz 02-20-2011 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinehead (Post 31089764)
The first line isn't even my number one concern. To me this team needs a defensemen in the worst way, more than anything else. Not a PPQB either. They need a big, ugly, ornery, mean, sociopathic, nasty mother ****er who likes to dismember people. Almost every goal we give up involves a guy standing right in front of hank, be it a deflection or a rebound or a screen. We need someone who will teach opponents the hard way that that **** won't fly.

The defense is the least of our problems, IMO. We don't need a crease-clearer as much as we need a 1st line who will keep the puck out of our zone in the first place. And most times, Staal and Girardi, and even Sauer and McDonagh, are good enough at stopping the play before it gets to the crease. When they do, it's brain lapses or I guess you have to chalk it up to rookie mistakes.

ruckus* 02-20-2011 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz (Post 31089673)
Are you going to explain why?

Because, past the power-play, the way Torts coached this team pre-Vancouver was great.


Are you blind? Do you listen to games on the radio?

Cause if not and you need me to explain it to you then I don't know what to tell you.


You think the constant line juggling is effective?

Limiting your best players ice time in favor of players with less skill?

Scratching a player like Eminger for Del Zotto for all these games when our D zone break downs have killed us?



Please do, tell me what you see from Torts as an IN game coach that makes you think he's even reasonably effective?


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