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-   -   Proposal: shouldnt edmonton/vancouver make a trade? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=883677)

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 02-27-2011 01:11 AM

shouldnt edmonton/vancouver make a trade?
 
vancouver isnt going to get any closer then this to go for a cup win... edmonton should be rebuilding and thinking of what they want for team chemistry 3-4 years down the road.

vancouver needs a second line scoring upgrade over mason raymond and edmonton has a question what to do with hemsky who isnt really a first line 'winner' but might enjoy being able to coast along in the shadow of the twins and louongo on a team with a chance to win.

vancouver has a few pieces that edmonton should like as far as rebuilding goes... chief among them being cody hodgson. mason raymond is expendable if vancouver upgrades to a guy like hemsky instead. and keith ballard on defense is grossly overpaid for what he has been able to deliver in vancouver. time for him to find a new home.

ballard as the cap dump/hodgson as the prize/raymond as the throw in

for

hemsky and maybe brule hoping a return to vancouver finally jump starts his usefulness

makes sense to me, but i suppose im going to be told why its dumb :)

Nuckles 02-27-2011 01:16 AM

Hell no from a Vancouver standpoint.
Yes, Ballard is overpaid, but we need the defensive depth. And he is physical and can log big minutes if needed.

And Hemsky isn't the type of player we need for the playoffs. (I also don't like how he is injury prone)
Vancouver would need a top 6 physical player.

zeus3007* 02-27-2011 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuckles37 (Post 31268058)
Hell no from a Vancouver standpoint.
Yes, Ballard is overpaid, but we need the defensive depth. And he is physical and can log big minutes if needed.

And Hemsky isn't the type of player we need for the playoffs. (I also don't like how he is injury prone)
Vancouver would need a top 6 physical player.

Hemsky was money in the playoffs in 06 for the record.

That said, I don't really like the deal. I like Hodgson a lot, I don't really want Ballard (and Vancouver needs him), and I'm not sure about Raymond either. If I was the Oilers, I would consider this deal, but counter with a first rounder instead of Ballard.

kushh 02-27-2011 01:22 AM

Better idea would be to get Penner.

Penner, 1st
Hodgson, Raymond, Connauton, 1st, 2nd

Steep price to pay but we would get a top 3 pick and the Powerforward we need.

Edmonton gets Hodgson to center Eberle and Hall, a Alberta boy in Raymond would be a young replacement for Penner in the top 6, Connauton is a badly needed Dman prospect who is also an Alberta boy, and picks.

TrueCanuckle 02-27-2011 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuckles37 (Post 31268058)
Hell no from a Vancouver standpoint.
Yes, Ballard is overpaid, but we need the defensive depth. And he is physical and can log big minutes if needed.

And Hemsky isn't the type of player we need for the playoffs. (I also don't like how he is injury prone)
Vancouver would need a top 6 physical player.

agreed. We need Ballards hip checks :handclap:
Hodgson isn't moving. if we could clear up some cap space and acquire Dustin Penner, it would be a great acquisition for the nucks

RandV 02-27-2011 01:24 AM

You could at least toss in Smid to balance out Raymond's contract and fill the hole on defense Ballard would leave.

Edmontonoil 02-27-2011 01:25 AM

I hate how everyone under evaluates hemmer! sure he is injury prone- but he is almost a point a game on the worst NHL team

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 02-27-2011 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeus3007 (Post 31268109)
Hemsky was money in the playoffs in 06 for the record.

That said, I don't really like the deal. I like Hodgson a lot, I don't really want Ballard (and Vancouver needs him), and I'm not sure about Raymond either. If I was the Oilers, I would consider this deal, but counter with a first rounder instead of Ballard.

cant ballard be replaced in a second deal for the canucks? his multiple years at 4 is not a pretty mess to deal with for them when they should be focused on bringing back erhoff and bieska to pair up with hamhuis and edler as their big 4 for the next few years. ballard at 4 mill as a 5th dman just doesnt make sense for them

if there was unlimited cap then sure why not? he has been a good dman in the past. but he just hasnt been good since picked up for the canucks. he doesnt fit in for some reason.

as for edmonton though.. they can throw all the caproom they want at ufa and they will get laughed at. its sad but its true. ballard probably becomes the oilers second best dmen for the next few years once picked up. maybe gilbert/smid become decent players if they got whitney/ballard taking most the mins at the top of the hiarchy. and i guess edmonton should draft larson... to me this is a 5 man group that isnt so bad. a couple of the spare parts that have shown promise like peckam or petry {sp} would seem ok to me.

i know canucks have injuries to their defense right now... but make the deal i propose... and then back it up by grabbing someone like phillips out of ottawa for the playoff run. wouldnt this work?

for me... i think theres alot of value for vancovuer to move ballards contract as far as future seasons go. not this year necessarily, but its a contract that will be a problem for them given their other priorities once the future plays itself out

Ronaldo 02-27-2011 01:29 AM

**** no from the Canucks

Paralyzer 02-27-2011 01:29 AM

All I can say is this won't turn out well. Edmonton will want lots for Hemmer and Canuck fans think he isn't worth much. Just drop it before someone comes on here and posts a ridiculous trade proposal.....

Quote:

Better idea would be to get Penner.

Penner, 1st
Hodgson, Raymond, Connauton, 1st, 2nd

Steep price to pay but we would get a top 3 pick and the Powerforward we need.

Edmonton gets Hodgson to center Eberle and Hall, a Alberta boy in Raymond would be a young replacement for Penner in the top 6, Connauton is a badly needed Dman prospect who is also an Alberta boy, and picks.
Too late :facepalm:

BLAME CANADA* 02-27-2011 01:33 AM

I think Oilers and Canucks could make a good hockey trade but it wouldn't be for Hemsky, we can't afford him. I'd think something on the lines of Hodgson for MPS would help both teams out, Van gets a playmaking winger for Kesler and Sams and Oilers get a player who has top line center potential who has great chemistry with Eberle and good friends with Gagner, fills a need for both teams.

Nuckles 02-27-2011 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan (Post 31268215)
cant ballard be replaced in a second deal for the canucks? his multiple years at 4 is not a pretty mess to deal with for them when they should be focused on bringing back erhoff and bieska to pair up with hamhuis and edler as their big 4 for the next few years. ballard at 4 mill as a 5th dman just doesnt make sense for them

if there was unlimited cap then sure why not? he has been a good dman in the past. but he just hasnt been good since picked up for the canucks. he doesnt fit in for some reason.

as for edmonton though.. they can throw all the caproom they want at ufa and they will get laughed at. its sad but its true. ballard probably becomes the oilers second best dmen for the next few years once picked up. maybe gilbert/smid become decent players if they got whitney/ballard taking most the mins at the top of the hiarchy. and i guess edmonton should draft larson... to me this is a 5 man group that isnt so bad. a couple of the spare parts that have shown promise like peckam or petry {sp} would seem ok to me.

i know canucks have injuries to their defense right now... but make the deal i propose... and then back it up by grabbing someone like phillips out of ottawa for the playoff run. wouldnt this work?

for me... i think theres alot of value for vancovuer to move ballards contract as far as future seasons go. not this year necessarily, but its a contract that will be a problem for them given their other priorities once the future plays itself out

Ballard hasn't been horrible, he has been decent. He hasn't had much of a chance to shine (and he is given zero PP time).

A major problem with what you are suggesting is that the Canucks cant afford this cap-wise.
Also, the Canucks are overpaying for Hemsky, and giving up their best prospect. Then we would have to give up even more for a guy who is an upcoming UFA (Phillips) who might not fit in with the team (look at Alberts when he joined the Nucks last season at the deadline).

Ronaldo 02-27-2011 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScubaaaBob (Post 31268302)
I think Oilers and Canucks could make a good hockey trade but it wouldn't be for Hemsky, we can't afford him. I'd think something on the lines of Hodgson for MPS would help both teams out, Van gets a playmaking winger for Kesler and Sams and Oilers get a player who has top line center potential who has great chemistry with Eberle and good friends with Gagner, fills a need for both teams.

If the Canucks and the Oilers weren't division rivals, and if there wasn't alleged animosity between the two GM's, that trade would be perfect for both teams.

Joey Moss 02-27-2011 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno Mars (Post 31268400)
If the Canucks and the Oilers weren't division rivals, and if there wasn't alleged animosity between the two GM's, that trade would be perfect for both teams.

MPS for Hodgson? Yeah, that doesn't make sense at all from Edmonton. Hodgson is already injury prone, it's too risky.

Oilmageddon* 02-27-2011 02:17 AM

Hemsky to the Nucks would make me vomit .

sabresandcanucks 02-27-2011 02:19 AM

No, no, no.....Hemsky is not worth a Schenn or Hodgson.

Raymond, a 1st, and Schroeder would make more sense...But thats excluding the CAP and the fact I don't think Vancouver should move Raymond who, as a asset, is at his lowest value in the past year.

Ronaldo 02-27-2011 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey Moss (Post 31268749)
MPS for Hodgson? Yeah, that doesn't make sense at all from Edmonton. Hodgson is already injury prone, it's too risky.

You're probably right, but in terms of the prospects potential, and positions they play, all things being equal, would be a good trade for both teams. But as mentioned before, the likeliness of this trade ever happening is slim to none.

jumptheshark 02-27-2011 02:21 AM

the moment I saw Ballard I stopped reading

Nucks are built to win now and their D will be theor Key or undoing

JAK 02-27-2011 02:21 AM

no one outside of Edmonton wants Hemsky, and even Edmonton wants to get rid of him, except the price is set way too high.

Paralyzer 02-27-2011 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAK (Post 31268836)
no one outside of Edmonton wants Hemsky, and even Edmonton wants to get rid of him, except the price is set way too high.

Wow you are either a canuck/calgary homer and you are just jealous of Edmonton, or you aren't a very knowledgeable person when it comes to hockey. Good job.


biturbo19 02-27-2011 02:25 AM

no. they shouldn't.

trading within the division is almost always a terrible idea. and though i like Hemsky as a player, i don't see him OR Penner as a great fit for the Canucks all things considered. and ESPECIALLY not at the cost of a solid top-4 d-man (though at times underutilized on a deep Canucks squad), a young winger with speed to burn and 30g-30a upside mired in a bit of a slump, and a 10th overall pick in Hodgson.

that would be a terrible deal, and would just get worse as time goes by.


and wtf is it with everyone thinking that this is the Canucks best/only chance at the cup? i still don't understand why they can't be just as good next year...with most of their core locked up long term and a lot of promising youngsters coming down the pipeline. this is an organization trying to follow the 'detroit model'...and you don't hear people going ******* about how 'THIS IS THE ONLY YEAR DETROIT CAN WIN THE CUP'. they're a perennial contender for a reason...just as the Canucks should strive to be.

Paralyzer 02-27-2011 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biturbo19 (Post 31268868)
no. they shouldn't.

trading within the division is almost always a terrible idea. and though i like Hemsky as a player, i don't see him OR Penner as a great fit for the Canucks all things considered. and ESPECIALLY not at the cost of a solid top-4 d-man (though at times underutilized on a deep Canucks squad), a young winger with speed to burn and 30g-30a upside mired in a bit of a slump, and a 10th overall pick in Hodgson.

that would be a terrible deal, and would just get worse as time goes by.


and wtf is it with everyone thinking that this is the Canucks best/only chance at the cup? i still don't understand why they can't be just as good next year...with most of their core locked up long term and a lot of promising youngsters coming down the pipeline. this is an organization trying to follow the 'detroit model'...and you don't hear people going ******* about how 'THIS IS THE ONLY YEAR DETROIT CAN WIN THE CUP'. they're a perennial contender for a reason...just as the Canucks should strive to be.

I don't think it's that per-say, but the fact that every year, all other teams will get better and as you say about Vancouver keeping their core, they also regress through time from getting older. They got a chance at winning it for more than 1 year, yes. More like 2-3 years, but by the time the 4th year comes, it'll be time to change the team again.

sabresandcanucks 02-27-2011 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAK (Post 31268836)
no one outside of Edmonton wants Hemsky, and even Edmonton wants to get rid of him, except the price is set way too high.

Well....I'm sure there is a lot of interest in him...but the asking price is just too high. Oiler fans can try and convince us otherwise, but every other fanbase knows that he is not worth the asking price...if that happens to be a bluechip prospect like Schenn or Hodgson.

That said, I'd offer a first round pick, a roster player ( 2b/3rd line forward, 5/6 D man), and a mid level prospect for him if I was a bubble team with CAP space and a scoring problem.

I like Hemsky...I should make that clear.

Toydarian 02-27-2011 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan (Post 31267989)
vancouver isnt going to get any closer then this to go for a cup win... edmonton should be rebuilding and thinking of what they want for team chemistry 3-4 years down the road.

vancouver needs a second line scoring upgrade over mason raymond and edmonton has a question what to do with hemsky who isnt really a first line 'winner' but might enjoy being able to coast along in the shadow of the twins and louongo on a team with a chance to win.

vancouver has a few pieces that edmonton should like as far as rebuilding goes... chief among them being cody hodgson. mason raymond is expendable if vancouver upgrades to a guy like hemsky instead. and keith ballard on defense is grossly overpaid for what he has been able to deliver in vancouver. time for him to find a new home.

ballard as the cap dump/hodgson as the prize/raymond as the throw in

for

hemsky and maybe brule hoping a return to vancouver finally jump starts his usefulness

makes sense to me, but i suppose im going to be told why its dumb :)

This is the part I don't understand.

t0nedeff 02-27-2011 02:36 AM

hell no from the oilers pov. Ballard is garbage and definitely not what the Oil need and Raymond and Hodgson aren't what I want for Hemsky.


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