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-   -   Speculation: The problem with trading MDZ (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=883769)

howztheglass 02-27-2011 10:48 AM

The problem with trading MDZ
 
The way I see it is if the Ranger's are thinking of moving MDZ they don't have anyone in the minors currently to replace him.We do have multiple D-man that we could add to our depth but not 1 is an offensive D-man.

Currently in our system we have,

McIlrath
Kund
Pashnin
Valentenko
Heikkinen

And on the club now,

McD
Sauer
Staal
Girardi
Gilroy

Not 1 of these player's if as gifted offensively as MDZ.Now I'm not saying we can't trade him but losing him in any deal could hurt our team.

Call me crazy but if somehow we but trade for Richards--a deal centered around MDZ and AA possible a 2 round pick--we would be able to have Richards on the point for multiple years to come and there would be less of a need for MDZ.

Fire away!!!

wolfgaze 02-27-2011 10:53 AM

Best offense is a strong defense. :sarcasm:

broadwayblue 02-27-2011 10:54 AM

Why do you believe the Rangers are thinking about trading MDZ? He's a highly skilled young dman who is learning how to play the game at the NHL level. Seriously, where did you hear the organization talk of moving him? I think a lot of fans assume that if a kid isn't fully developed by 20 then he's a bust. Obviously this is far from reality.

xxxZENxxx 02-27-2011 10:56 AM

I am sure the Rangers will once again reach on a player in this year's draft to fill that need if MDZ is traded... which is probably the worst thing you can do while drafting. Hence why we have McIlrath instead of Fowler... which is ironic considering Fowler would have been quite useful if we trade MDZ.

Blatant 02-27-2011 10:56 AM

He is gonna finish the year in the AHL, he is going to gain some much needed confidence, and get some much needed experience. He is going to play 22+ minutes a night, is going to QB the PP, and play on the PK. He needs to be in the AHL, he is 20, and he is a huge part of our future. He is not being traded. Period.

howztheglass 02-27-2011 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadwayblue (Post 31272303)
Why do you think the Rangers are thinking about trading MDZ? He's a highly skilled young dman who is learning how to play the game at the NHL level. Seriously, where did you hear the organization talk of moving him? I think a lot of fans assume that if a kid isn't fully developed by 20 then he's a bust. Obviously this is far from reality.

Not saying the Ranger's are thinking about trading MDZ but I've read multilpe reports that taems have inquired about him.

Dallas is known to have ask for him in any trade for Richards--even LB reported this morning that as many as a dozen teams have spoken about him.

While I agree that he's young I don't believe that he's untouchable,I also stated that if the Ranger's did trade him how it could hurt our org.

howztheglass 02-27-2011 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx (Post 31272328)
I am sure the Rangers will once again reach on a player in this year's draft to fill that need if MDZ is traded... which is probably the worst thing you can do while drafting. Hence why we have McIlrath instead of Fowler... which is ironic considering Fowler would have been quite useful if we trade MDZ.

Your right but drafting McIlrath did fill a need in this years draft that we have not had in our system for a long time.

howztheglass 02-27-2011 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRfan1823 (Post 31272342)
He is gonna finish the year in the AHL, he is going to gain some much needed confidence, and get some much needed experience. He is going to play 22+ minutes a night, is going to QB the PP, and play on the PK. He needs to be in the AHL, he is 20, and he is a huge part of our future. He is not being traded. Period.

We will find out by 3pm tomorrow.

Only way I'm thinking of moving him is for Richards.

broadwayblue 02-27-2011 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howztheglass (Post 31272425)
Not saying the Ranger's are thinking about trading MDZ but I've read multilpe reports that taems have inquired about him.

Dallas is known to have ask for him in any trade for Richards--even LB reported this morning that as many as a dozen teams have spoken about him.

While I agree that he's young I don't believe that he's untouchable,I also stated that if the Ranger's did trade him how it could hurt our org.

He's not untouchable...but I would be shocked if he is traded for an over 30 year old rental. Just don't see it happening. That's 180 degrees from what this organization has been doing in recent years. Simply put, I'll be shocked if he's moved for a player who is 10+ years older.

Miller Time NYR 02-27-2011 11:10 AM

I completly agree we dont have any offensively gifted talent in the pipes right now, it was MDZ and sanguenetti(wrong). Now it's just MDZ,I understand Richards can QB the pp but is that where we really want him? And I still think a defense needs at least one OFD amongst a mainly shutdown defense with some occasional offensive talent. Trading MDZ for any package without an OFD coming back would open up yet another hole in this teams Offense and more importantly PP even if he's not producing teams know hes a threat and play him accordingly. I could see us trading MDZ if we had another promising young offensive defenseman in the pipes but we don't.

John Torturella 02-27-2011 11:15 AM

Its wont be difficult to find a player that doesn't play very well on either side of the puck.

SML 02-27-2011 11:16 AM

I don't think he should be untouchable. He happens to play the position that we've somehow stumbled into incredible depth at, which is young high level defensemen. I know you can argue none of them are proven commodities yet. But there has to be an incredible competetive level on this roster at that position. You either produce or someone else is taking your spot. There is no reason for us to be giving a one dimensional defenseman icetime. I think organizationally, the team is making the right move for demanding that MDZ round out his game and not allowing him to just play his strength and accept his weakness. If he doesn't step up, then he can step off. There will be another guy coming down the pipe eventually that can do both. I know the monday morning quartebackers are never going to forgive us passing on Fowler if MDZ can't cut it here, but whatever. One thing I have complete faith in Sather about is spotting a dog when he shows his true colors. He's drafted some doozies, but when he cuts bait on them, they are generally just that. If Sather trades him, there's a reason, and bear in mind that he knows everything about the kid where we don't know anything other than what we see on tv.

White Plains Batman 02-27-2011 11:23 AM

He's only 20 and has a vision unlike any other Dman in the Rangers organization. He's the closest thing to Zubov they've had since.

Let him be.

Rangers44* 02-27-2011 11:40 AM

I wouldn't mind Christensen + Del Zotto for Richards + 2nd rounder

SML 02-27-2011 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Plains Batman (Post 31272820)
He's only 20 and has a vision unlike any other Dman in the Rangers organization. He's the closest thing to Zubov they've had since.

Let him be.

When you think about the Dmen theyve had since he left, how hard is it to really be closer in style to Zubov than any of them?

Beacon 02-27-2011 11:45 AM

Youth for Age trades like MDZ for Brad is exactly what got us in trouble in the mid-90s.

We need to not do this. I am not convinced we need Brad. Not because of his skill, but because of his age. The Rangers won't win the Cup the next couple of years, and who knows if Brad will still be an elite center in a few years. Meanwhile, MDZ is the only offensive blueliner in the system.

I remember everyone hated Zubov after the 1995 playoffs when he played poor defense, so we traded him for Robitaille. How did that work out?

I am also opposed to wasting pucks on McCabe and Antropov. Who knows what those picks would become.

Look, Horak was a 6th rounder and I would take a prospect like him over any rental.

HatTrick Swayze 02-27-2011 11:48 AM

Gotta love drafting for need.

Blatant 02-27-2011 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangers44 (Post 31273150)
I wouldn't mind Christensen + Del Zotto for Richards + 2nd rounder

Dallas wouldn't do that.

howztheglass 02-27-2011 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerEsq (Post 31273252)
Youth for Age trades like MDZ for Brad is exactly what got us in trouble in the mid-90s.

We need to not do this. I am not convinced we need Brad. Not because of his skill, but because of his age. The Rangers won't win the Cup the next couple of years, and who knows if Brad will still be an elite center in a few years. Meanwhile, MDZ is the only offensive blueliner in the system.

I remember everyone hated Zubov after the 1995 playoffs when he played poor defense, so we traded him for Robitaille. How did that work out?

I am also opposed to wasting pucks on McCabe and Antropov. Who knows what those picks would become.

Look, Horak was a 6th rounder and I would take a prospect like him over any rental.

What's tough is the Ranger's draft better in the later rounds then in the first.

howztheglass 02-27-2011 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRfan1823 (Post 31273376)
Dallas wouldn't do that.

Agreed Dallas is most likely looking for something based like this

MDZ
AA
Gilroy(cap reasons)
2nd pick(Washington's)

for Richards
and maybe a 3rd (we could get back for McCabe)

Got to give to get it's NOT like Sather going to get Richards for
EC
Gilroy
and 7th

broadwayblue 02-27-2011 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerEsq (Post 31273252)
Youth for Age trades like MDZ for Brad is exactly what got us in trouble in the mid-90s.

We need to not do this. I am not convinced we need Brad. Not because of his skill, but because of his age. The Rangers won't win the Cup the next couple of years, and who knows if Brad will still be an elite center in a few years. Meanwhile, MDZ is the only offensive blueliner in the system.

I remember everyone hated Zubov after the 1995 playoffs when he played poor defense, so we traded him for Robitaille. How did that work out?

I am also opposed to wasting pucks on McCabe and Antropov. Who knows what those picks would become.

Look, Horak was a 6th rounder and I would take a prospect like him over any rental.

Yeah, I still have my doubts about signing him on July 1. He'll be 31...the core of our team is much younger. As they are rounding out their games he'll be entering the downward end of his career. Doesn't seem like a great fit to me. To consider trading major assets for him seems very risky...and to add his health concerns on top of that makes it crazy. I truly hope we stay the course.

SML 02-27-2011 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerEsq (Post 31273252)
Youth for Age trades like MDZ for Brad is exactly what got us in trouble in the mid-90s.

We need to not do this. I am not convinced we need Brad. Not because of his skill, but because of his age. The Rangers won't win the Cup the next couple of years, and who knows if Brad will still be an elite center in a few years. Meanwhile, MDZ is the only offensive blueliner in the system.

I remember everyone hated Zubov after the 1995 playoffs when he played poor defense, so we traded him for Robitaille. How did that work out?

I am also opposed to wasting pucks on McCabe and Antropov. Who knows what those picks would become.

Look, Horak was a 6th rounder and I would take a prospect like him over any rental.

I think youre comparing apples and oranges with the Zubov trade. The way I remember it, the Flyers wore Zubov out physically. Just punished him relentlessly. The entire league came to snap judgement and overreaction to the style those guys were playing, which caused all those mammoth size players like Cullimore and the like, while guys like Marty St. Louis were passing through waivers. I think they traded Zubov more because they felt he had a weakness that was going to be continually exposed by the increase in physical play, more than trading him for what they thought the return would be. As we all know, it was a mistake. Never should have been done. Too late now. I'd trade MDZ in a package for Stastny, not for Richards.

Rangers44* 02-27-2011 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRfan1823 (Post 31273376)
Dallas wouldn't do that.

they did much worse with Niskanen/Neal trade

broadwayblue 02-27-2011 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SML (Post 31273657)
I think youre comparing apples and oranges with the Zubov trade. The way I remember it, the Flyers wore Zubov out physically. Just punished him relentlessly. The entire league came to snap judgement and overreaction to the style those guys were playing, which caused all those mammoth size players like Cullimore and the like, while guys like Marty St. Louis were passing through waivers. I think they traded Zubov more because they felt he had a weakness that was going to be continually exposed by the increase in physical play, more than trading him for what they thought the return would be. As we all know, it was a mistake. Never should have been done. Too late now. I'd trade MDZ in a package for Stastny, not for Richards.

Exactly the kind of a trade that would potentially make sense for THIS team. Stastny may never become the player that Richards is now...but he fits the blueprint of the team much much more closely.

Stugots 02-27-2011 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howztheglass (Post 31272208)
The way I see it is if the Ranger's are thinking of moving MDZ they don't have anyone in the minors currently to replace him.We do have multiple D-man that we could add to our depth but not 1 is an offensive D-man.

Currently in our system we have,

McIlrath
Kund
Pashnin
Valentenko
Heikkinen

And on the club now,

McD
Sauer
Staal
Girardi
Gilroy

Not 1 of these player's if as gifted offensively as MDZ.Now I'm not saying we can't trade him but losing him in any deal could hurt our team.

Call me crazy but if somehow we but trade for Richards--a deal centered around MDZ and AA possible a 2 round pick--we would be able to have Richards on the point for multiple years to come and there would be less of a need for MDZ.

Fire away!!!

I'm glad you posted this because I've been saying the same thing. If we trade Del Zotto, there really aren't many options in the way of adding a PP QB/ Offensive Dman. In 2011 and 2012 FA the only PMD who will be in his prime and worth signing is Brent Burns (2012). The rest of the FA PMD's are all short term solutions. Of course there is the draft, but guys like Fowler and DZ don't come along often. Most Dmen need a few years to develop. Unless we can draft a guy who can step right in like DZ did, we will be void of a PMD for at least a couple years.


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