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-   -   Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=884997)

Mr Gone 03-01-2011 03:37 PM

Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)
 
Is it time to move Mike Green? I know that sounds crazy. And its something I would of never thought about a year ago. But after seeing 24/7 I see how he is always going to be a target. And its starting to wear on him. And now with the head problems I fear him being a part time player. Or always banged up. And as good as he is when he is playing his game. The Caps are not the run and gun team of the past.

I just cant see paying him 7mill+ a year. We have guys ready to fill that roll. With Carlson, Wideman And Orlov on the way.

And with all the dead line deals we have made. We have lost a lot of picks. We can get some real assets in return. Or even better let him walk on an offer sheet. And cash in the picks.

I would be 100% fine with.

Carlson Alzner
Widman Hannan
Poti, Schultz, Erskine
Orlov

txpd 03-01-2011 03:42 PM

in a word. no.

why dont you watch wideman play a game or two in the playoffs first?

i am glad mcphee got wideman, but this is a player ripped as hard for his defensive zone play as green while playing next to chara while green plays next to another whipping boy, schultz.

lets see the games after the first 82 and watch them all play.

repeat. in a word. no. in two words. no way. in a three words. come on, dude.

Foy 03-01-2011 03:45 PM

Dear god no. The man is a one-man breakout.

QuadrupleDeke 03-01-2011 03:46 PM

I love how the solution to the Caps not being able to score is to trade away their offensive weapons.

Provide a concrete trade that we can judge, and this would be a worthwhile endeavor. To pretend that just the act of trading him would make the Caps better is asinine.

strungout 03-01-2011 03:51 PM

Here we go.

Capitlols 03-01-2011 03:52 PM

OP I hope your not suggesting this after the addition of Wideman. Wideman is much worse than Green defensively(and that's saying something) and not close offensively.

However, I do think it should be questioned whether to move Green or not. Depending on a few variables.

Millhaus 03-01-2011 03:53 PM

Wideman and Orlov are ready to replace Green? Sweet. Does your crystal ball tell us anything else?

Jump the gun much...?

Vladiator16* 03-01-2011 03:54 PM

Wtf?!

brs03 03-01-2011 03:58 PM

You can make the case that the organization should honestly consider offers for him maybe as early as this summer ("maybe" because his value might be the lowest it's ever been). But not without adding someone new to replace him (same deal, separate deal, who knows), probably someone expensive. In the end it could easily prove not to be worth it.

NeilYoung 03-01-2011 04:01 PM

Hell no, Third most untouchable player on the team in my books (Ovi, Backie) He's taken huge strides this year and is only getting better

I already get headachs watching our transition game without him lately

usiel 03-01-2011 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strungout (Post 31341876)
Here we go.

My thoughts exactly when Orlov's Hershey debut went well, lol

Answer=no

Hivemind 03-01-2011 04:25 PM

But, didn't you guys hear that Orlov is the best defenseman ever and is ready to play in the NHL at an all-star level right now? He could totally be on the Canadian Olympic team in Sochi while Green will be outside looking in again. Duh!

BrooklynCapsFan 03-01-2011 04:35 PM

I got called nasty names for guessing that Seabrook's extension puts Green in the 7.5 million range, but I don't think that's all that crazy. Any other guesses/retorts?

I Am The Mole 03-01-2011 04:37 PM

Green is the backbone of our transition game. To trade him is laughable. If he starts to seem "fragile" or "beat up" that's what Strength and Conditioning Coaches (and Team Medical Staff) are for.

Look at it this way. If Crosby had been treated the same way we are treating Green, do you think the Penguins situation would still be equally as dire as it is now? Green deserves a second chance from a lot of fans as well as the media for the defensive turn around he's made this season.

artilector 03-01-2011 04:37 PM

My opinion of Green's future with the Caps really depends on his performance thru 2012 and contract demands:

a) if Caps go back to playing wide open and Green puts up huge numbers in the reg. season while continuing to be disappointing in playoffs, hell no I would not want the Caps to pay him 6-7m.

b) if Caps continue to play defensive, Green's offensive numbers stay at more or less the current pace, and his contract demands come down to say 4-5m, ok, maybe ~5m, I think that's reasonable, the potential is worth it.

c) if it plays out as in b), except Green's camp continues to want Norris candidate money (or somebody is ready to throw it his way).. then I think the Caps should let him go for max return.

Of course, Carlson's development (and to a lesser extent, Orlov's) has a huge effect on all of this. If Carlson becomes the top dog, then even if Green plays well, it does not generally make sense to me to keep a 6m guy on the second pairing. It might not make sense even if Green is slightly better but Carlson is significantly cheaper.

Myself, I'm skeptical about Green putting it all together to an extent that will justify his contract demands. There's no hurry to make a decision on his future with the Caps, but my intuition is that the Caps will eventually be better off without him. People have recently compared Green with Leetch... man, he's no Leetch. Living near NYC since 93', I had watched Leetch a ton. That guy could consistently strap a team to his back and make things happen. Green is much more dependent on various circumstances. As for him being a one man breakout.. let's see it in playoff first. And that's in any case more a reflection of a team-wide problem rather than having a true need for a guy to try to do it all himself while the others are standing around doing god knows what. I'd much prefer some balance among defensemen in this critical ability of skating/passing the puck out. Otherwise what happens -- teams key on Green, who is not exactly Mr.Indestructible, and by the time the Caps advance a round or two, Green's effectiveness is significantly reduced..

edit: this is regardless of Wideman, obviously. Let's see the guy play first.

Jules Winnfield 03-01-2011 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artilector (Post 31342491)

b) if Caps continue to play defensive, Green's offensive numbers stay at more or less the current pace, and his contract demands come down to say 4-5m, ok, maybe ~5m, I think that's reasonable, the potential is worth it.

Why would Green's contract demands be $5m? He's already making $5.25m. If anything, he's going to expect a raise.

Green is the best offensive defenseman in the game. If guys like Martin, Gonchar, and Seabrook are getting $5m, $5.5m, and $5.9m, Green is going to get some major Green. I could see him making $6.5m to $6.7m. I don't think his salary will exceed Backstrom's though (that is unless some team like Edmonton throws the bank at him).

Efactor 03-01-2011 04:52 PM

Yes!

Two concussions in consecutive games after a break in between. Head injuries are additive. He is cooked.

Jules Winnfield 03-01-2011 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan (Post 31342466)
I got called nasty names for guessing that Seabrook's extension puts Green in the 7.5 million range, but I don't think that's all that crazy. Any other guesses/retorts?

I think it all depends on whether or not Green signs a deal before others can make him an offer.

I mean look, Green is 100x better than Brian Campbell and look what he got. You could always have some team really covet a player like him and break the bank on him...especially teams with cap space, i.e. Florida, NYI, Edmonton, etc.

NeilYoung 03-01-2011 04:54 PM

Threads like these make it pretty easy to know which Caps fans actually played hockey or know a thing about hockey thats for sure.

Vabeachblue 03-01-2011 05:15 PM

hahaha no

EroCaps 03-01-2011 05:23 PM

If Green has another terrible playoffs why wouldn't they?

artilector 03-01-2011 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield (Post 31342659)
Why would Green's contract demands be $5m? He's already making $5.25m. If anything, he's going to expect a raise.

Green is the best offensive defenseman in the game. If guys like Martin, Gonchar, and Seabrook are getting $5m, $5.5m, and $5.9m, Green is going to get some major Green. I could see him making $6.5m to $6.7m. I don't think his salary will exceed Backstrom's though (that is unless some team like Edmonton throws the bank at him).

Well, ok. Right now the "best offensive defenseman in the game" is #40 in pts/game among defensemen. He has a long way to go to prove that he can still put up big numbers in a more conventional system that the Caps now seem to prefer. Plus he has a lot to prove in playoffs, where so far he's delivered pretty far from a 5-6m performance.

Most people here are fine with paying Green whatever money based essentially on the belief that he can become solid defensively, physically durable, and still maintain offensive numbers from the run-and-gun days. I don't share that belief, so I wouldn't pay Green the kind of money appropriate for a player who fits that description.

Brad Tolliver 03-01-2011 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artilector (Post 31342491)
My opinion of Green's future with the Caps really depends on his performance thru 2012 and contract demands:

a) if Caps go back to playing wide open and Green puts up huge numbers in the reg. season while continuing to be disappointing in playoffs, hell no I would not want the Caps to pay him 6-7m.

b) if Caps continue to play defensive, Green's offensive numbers stay at more or less the current pace, and his contract demands come down to say 4-5m, ok, maybe ~5m, I think that's reasonable, the potential is worth it.

c) if it plays out as in b), except Green's camp continues to want Norris candidate money (or somebody is ready to throw it his way).. then I think the Caps should let him go for max return.

Of course, Carlson's development (and to a lesser extent, Orlov's) has a huge effect on all of this. If Carlson becomes the top dog, then even if Green plays well, it does not generally make sense to me to keep a 6m guy on the second pairing. It might not make sense even if Green is slightly better but Carlson is significantly cheaper.

Myself, I'm skeptical about Green putting it all together to an extent that will justify his contract demands. There's no hurry to make a decision on his future with the Caps, but my intuition is that the Caps will eventually be better off without him. People have recently compared Green with Leetch... man, he's no Leetch. Living near NYC since 93', I had watched Leetch a ton. That guy could consistently strap a team to his back and make things happen. Green is much more dependent on various circumstances. As for him being a one man breakout.. let's see it in playoff first. And that's in any case more a reflection of a team-wide problem rather than having a true need for a guy to try to do it all himself while the others are standing around doing god knows what. I'd much prefer some balance among defensemen in this critical ability of skating/passing the puck out. Otherwise what happens -- teams key on Green, who is not exactly Mr.Indestructible, and by the time the Caps advance a round or two, Green's effectiveness is significantly reduced..

edit: this is regardless of Wideman, obviously. Let's see the guy play first.

That almost sums up my thoughts exactly. The transition game is more about good structured team play. Throwing too much money at one talented player isn't going to automatically fix the transition game in the long run if it's fundamentally broken.

artilector 03-01-2011 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapsGreat08AO (Post 31342689)
Threads like these make it pretty easy to know which Caps fans actually played hockey or know a thing about hockey thats for sure.

I'll take incomplete knowledge over shallow arrogance any day.

CapsWolverinesUSA 03-01-2011 05:33 PM

It makes no sense to make any decisions on the issue right now. If Wideman suddenly reverts to 2008-2009 form (50 points +32) and looks like a world class offensive defensemen/PP stud, and then continues that roll in the playoffs and helps us go deep while Green recuperates or continues to struggle, then sure, I can see having the discussion about trading Green in the offseason.

But that's a really, really big if.


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