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-   -   Prospect Info: Five Kings in the top 55 of THN's Prospect Rankings; Schenn #1 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=885753)

Josh Deitell 03-03-2011 05:10 PM

Five Kings in the top 55 of THN's Prospect Rankings; Schenn #1
 
Schenn (1)
Loktionov (39)
Forbort (49)
Toffoli (51)
Voynov (54)

"In preparing our top 50, we consult with each team's top talent evaluator. We ask them to provide a rough sketch of the top 10 prospects in their system, regardless of age, nationality or contract status. Each NHL executive is then sent a master catalogue of the 30 top 10 lists and asked to formulate a top 50 ranking. The spreadsheet does the rest."

High honors!

Muzzinga 03-03-2011 05:16 PM

i pray that Schenn is every bit the player we hope he will be. I also hope he isn't thrown into the #2c spot next year and expected to produce at ppg pace or something ludicrous

Live in the Now 03-03-2011 05:20 PM

I don't expect him to be a PPG guy instantly, but he could have a very huge impact in 2011-12. This also answers why everyone demands Schenn in trades (if anyone was hiding under a rock or something), because he's pretty damn good and really highly regarded.

JDM 03-03-2011 05:22 PM

Damn.

What's the NHLs cut-off for considering someone a prospect. I know HF has their games played stuff, but is it simply rookie year or less?

For Schenn to be number 1 is pretty huge. But I have to assume people like Hall and Eberle have moved beyond that, even if they are in their rookie years... but I get thrown because Loktionov is on there but also has played some NHL games... so is this just up to each team to decide who is a prospect and who is not within their system?

Live in the Now 03-03-2011 05:23 PM

THN's standard is, if you aren't an NHL regular, you're eligible for the list. Loktionov bounces back and forth so he can be on it. Hall will not bounce to the AHL or anywhere out of the league. And so it goes.

Josh Deitell 03-03-2011 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDM (Post 31391590)
Damn.

What's the NHLs cut-off for considering someone a prospect. I know HF has their games played stuff, but is it simply rookie year or less?

For Schenn to be number 1 is pretty huge. But I have to assume people like Hall and Eberle have moved beyond that, even if they are in their rookie years... but I get thrown because Loktionov is on there but also has played some NHL games... so is this just up to each team to decide who is a prospect and who is not within their system?

Boedker from Phoenix is ranked as well and he's played 111 NHL games.

I think that they look at things less statistically (games played) and more objectively (if they're considered full-time NHLers or not). There are pros and cons to each system, for sure.

etherialone 03-03-2011 05:32 PM

As much as I hate to say it when it comes to TSN I take most of what they say/write with a grain of salt. Even though in this situation they are asking each team for their opinion, in the end there is a part where someone has to put it all together and I have found them to be a very biased org at times.

Its still neat and I like the fact that we are so highly mentioned but in the end I would call it a nice opinion fluffy kind of piece.

We already know who and were the talent lies in our system and time will tell whether TSN is wrong or right.

JDM 03-03-2011 05:34 PM

Alrighty. Thanks for the explanations.

Boedker being on there is a bit peculiar. Seems random to me, with a dash of common sense that is not independent of team circumstance.

DAkings20 03-03-2011 05:39 PM

Schenn is overrated

Sarcasm

Telos 03-03-2011 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonellisghost (Post 31391749)
As much as I hate to say it when it comes to TSN I take most of what they say/write with a grain of salt. Even though in this situation they are asking each team for their opinion, in the end there is a part where someone has to put it all together and I have found them to be a very biased org at times.

Its still neat and I like the fact that we are so highly mentioned but in the end I would call it a nice opinion fluffy kind of piece.

We already know who and were the talent lies in our system and time will tell whether TSN is wrong or right.

It's not TSN, it is THN (The Hockey News). They get the data from NHL scouts from every team in the NHL:

Quote:

"In preparing our top 50, we consult with each team's top talent evaluator. We ask them to provide a rough sketch of the top 10 prospects in their system, regardless of age, nationality or contract status. Each NHL executive is then sent a master catalogue of the 30 top 10 lists and asked to formulate a top 50 ranking. The spreadsheet does the rest."

etherialone 03-03-2011 05:43 PM

Voynov is under rated.

Puck U 03-03-2011 05:45 PM

Impressive ... and if you figure in HF's guidelines, you could still add Bernier into the list also, and despite what JT and the other QUICK HATERS out there want to say ;) we ALL (that includes ME) in fact DO want Bernier to be successful for our franchise and he would have to be ranked above Loktionov, so another Kings prospect in the top 40

Schenn (1)
+ Bernier
Loktionov (39)
Forbort (49)
Toffoli (51)
Voynov (54)

Plus we still have Thomas Hickey, Martin Jones, Oscar Mollar, Jeff Zatkoff, Nicolas Deslauries, Jack Muzzin, Maxim Kitsyn, the midget Kozun ... and a long list of others .... damn we just might reach RedWing status if we can retain and develop all these kids in addition to our current NHL line-up ... I know we've had some highly touted prospect before and some failed to pan out and others were mishandled and/or let go for little in return *cough*Cammalleri*cough*Frolov*cough* but still a mighty bright future ahead it would appear for our Team. :)

etherialone 03-03-2011 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telos (Post 31391909)
It's not TSN, it is THN (The Hockey News). They get the data from NHL scouts from every team in the NHL:

Oh, well then

Nevermind(ish)



Not that the hockey news is to be held in much higher regard some of the time but they are a better source.

And to the point of them getting the information from scouts from every team in the NHL yes, they they said that they had gone to every team and asked one scout for their opinion regarding who is the most talented prospect on their team and then according to them they asked for each scouts opinion as to who is the most talented and in what order from the list that each of them had provided.

At any rate the problem sits with what happens next. A more interesting piece would have been for them to show all of the returned information (withholding any personal information) and the specific details of how they put together their lists.

THN/TSN, either way I have my doubts though I do value the information in one over the other.

I want to be clear though that this is just my opinion and as such I wouldn't want to insinuate that I have any knowledge that either of these two media sources have ever actually knowingly or otherwise made any attempt intentional or otherwise to mislead or misinform any person or persons for any reason at any time.

I am only stating my opinion and while it is mirrored by other posters it is only meant to be a reflection based on my own personal experiences in observing both of these MS's over my years as a hockey fan and since it is an opinion it is meant to be taken for entertainment value only and not to be taken as fact.

Josh Deitell 03-03-2011 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonellisghost (Post 31391912)
Voynov is under rated.

I don't think anyone doubts his offensive skills but he's a liability from time to time at the AHL level and I think he'd be even more exposed in the bigs.

etherialone 03-03-2011 06:02 PM

I suppose that's one way of looking at it.

I see him as constantly improving his game and especially his skating skills but that is just an opinion as well.

I would like a chance to see him exposed to the NHL level of play so that I could get a clearer picture of what you are saying but it is going to have to wait until next season if it all.

R0CKET 03-03-2011 06:23 PM

All Schenn needs to do at this point is to really continue to build his body to compete with men.

When he mature more physically, he will be a very good player IMO.

Sydor25 03-03-2011 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sw1tch (Post 31391491)
i pray that Schenn is every bit the player we hope he will be. I also hope he isn't thrown into the #2c spot next year and expected to produce at ppg pace or something ludicrous

Schenn is slotted to replace Handzus on the roster. Handzus has 9 goals and 25 points through 63 games. I fully expect Schenn to produce better than that, even while playing 3rd line minutes with some PP time.

Herby 03-04-2011 01:21 AM

Schenn has a lot of pressure on him, more than any prospect the Kings have ever had. He isn't going to be joining a bad team like Kopitar, Doughty, Johnson, Brown, Simmonds and Quick all did. He is going to be joining a contending team next season and expected to fill the one major hole the team has. That is another reason I would have preferred him up here this season as opposed to putting up video game stats against 17 year olds.

I think with someone like Williams on his line and decent PP time he will be a 50+ point player next season, which already is an improvement over what we got there now.

Can't wait to see him back next season.

Brad Doty 03-04-2011 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herby (Post 31407308)
Schenn has a lot of pressure on him, more than any prospect the Kings have ever had. He isn't going to be joining a bad team like Kopitar, Doughty, Johnson, Brown, Simmonds and Quick all did. He is going to be joining a contending team next season and expected to fill the one major hole the team has. That is another reason I would have preferred him up here this season as opposed to putting up video game stats against 17 year olds.

I think with someone like Williams on his line and decent PP time he will be a 50+ point player next season, which already is an improvement over what we got there now.

Can't wait to see him back next season.

Good post.

While we could probably count on Schenn to outproduce Handzus, the veteran acumen and hockey sense will be lacking, not to mention moving from a rugged 6'5" veteran in a largely shutdown role to a smaller (though oozing with potential) rookie will likely be anything but a seamless transition.

Sydor25 03-04-2011 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MN14 (Post 31408024)
Good post.

While we could probably count on Schenn to outproduce Handzus, the veteran acumen and hockey sense will be lacking, not to mention moving from a rugged 6'5" veteran in a largely shutdown role to a smaller (though oozing with potential) rookie will likely be anything but a seamless transition.

If Loktionov comes to camp healthy and stronger, I could see Murray using Stoll as the shutdown center and start Schenn as the 4th line center.

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Loktionov-Brown
Clifford-Stoll-Simmonds
Richardson/Parse-Schenn-Lewis

Herby 03-04-2011 11:25 AM

I don't think the Kings have Schenn replacing Handzus, maybe as far as roster spot goes. But Schenn is not going to be thrown into a shutdown role. I assume Stoll will move down to the 3rd line where his game is better suited and one of Schenn and Loktionov will center the 2nd line.

I think they will both be on the roster next year, with one centering the 2nd line and the other one centering a more talented 4th line.

Maybe move Lewis up to the wing on the 3rd line.

Penner - Kopitar - Williams
Smyth - Loktionov/Schenn - Brown
Lewis - Stoll - Simmonds
Clifford - Loktionov/Schenn - Parse

I really love that lineup. You have Schenn or Loktionov with two veteran players. You have Stoll where he should be on the 3rd line between two speedy, defensively responsible players to form a shutdown line.

Then on the fourth line you give Loktionov or Schenn a chance to play with a guy with pretty good hands in Parse and give him a tougher guy to open up space for them in Clifford, but a tough guy who can actually play hockey.

Duc620 03-04-2011 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MN14 (Post 31408024)
Good post.

While we could probably count on Schenn to outproduce Handzus, the veteran acumen and hockey sense will be lacking, not to mention moving from a rugged 6'5" veteran in a largely shutdown role to a smaller (though oozing with potential) rookie will likely be anything but a seamless transition.

Yeah, it's probably a little early to expect Schenn to play at that level for an entire NHL season. He has lots to learn and he should get the time and space to learn it. Maybe 12-18 minutes a game on the third and fourth lines early in the season and then drops down somewhat as the season grinds on. He should get some special teams play though where his talent will have more space and he won't get bodied as much.

Capn Brown 03-04-2011 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Deitell (Post 31391395)
Schenn (1)
Loktionov (39)
Forbort (49)
Toffoli (51)
Voynov (54)

"In preparing our top 50, we consult with each team's top talent evaluator. We ask them to provide a rough sketch of the top 10 prospects in their system, regardless of age, nationality or contract status. Each NHL executive is then sent a master catalogue of the 30 top 10 lists and asked to formulate a top 50 ranking. The spreadsheet does the rest."

High honors!


Not to be annoying, but do you have the link for this? I'm looking at the THN site and am seeing nothing. There's some prospect story wherein Vey is mentioned but, other than that, I see nothing.....

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...he-family.html
Quote:

Linden Vey, RW Ė Medicine Hat Tigers (WHL)

Give it up for Vey, the first junior player in the country to hit triple digits in scoring this season. The competitive center now sits at 105 points, also reaching the 40-goal mark in the process. And lest you think the kidís all offense, he also boasts a plus-33 rating. Drafted 96th overall by Los Angeles in 2009.

AKAY47 03-04-2011 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herby (Post 31412535)
I don't think the Kings have Schenn replacing Handzus, maybe as far as roster spot goes. But Schenn is not going to be thrown into a shutdown role. I assume Stoll will move down to the 3rd line where his game is better suited and one of Schenn and Loktionov will center the 2nd line.

I think they will both be on the roster next year, with one centering the 2nd line and the other one centering a more talented 4th line.

Maybe move Lewis up to the wing on the 3rd line.

Penner - Kopitar - Williams
Smyth - Loktionov/Schenn - Brown
Lewis - Stoll - Simmonds
Clifford - Loktionov/Schenn - Parse

I really love that lineup. You have Schenn or Loktionov with two veteran players. You have Stoll where he should be on the 3rd line between two speedy, defensively responsible players to form a shutdown line.

Then on the fourth line you give Loktionov or Schenn a chance to play with a guy with pretty good hands in Parse and give him a tougher guy to open up space for them in Clifford, but a tough guy who can actually play hockey.

I would much rather go with this

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Clifford-Schenn-Simmonds
Richardson-Loktionov/Lewis-Lewis/Westgarth

Josh Deitell 03-04-2011 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capn Brown (Post 31414749)
Not to be annoying, but do you have the link for this? I'm looking at the THN site and am seeing nothing. There's some prospect story wherein Vey is mentioned but, other than that, I see nothing.....

They don't put the rankings online but they're in the Future Watch issue which was just printed.


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