HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Philadelphia Flyers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   Looking back at the Gagne trade. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=888827)

1865 03-10-2011 08:23 AM

Looking back at the Gagne trade.
 
I know this was discussed a lot at the time and considerably since but we're now at a point where we can legitimately look back at the trade with a critical eye.

For me, it was a gamble that's paid off for Holmgren. Gagne was a fan favourite for sure but he's had a pretty dreadful year for an offensively talented team in Tampa. His injuries have continued and he's managed a paltry 22 points. There's no guarantee that this form would have been replicated if he'd stayed here but for the sake of the argument we have to presume it would.

Walker was a scrub in the trade and he's been as dire as expected but it's the cost that worked for me. He's basically given us the opportunity to get Zherdev (almost matched his production for $3m less) and most of Meszaros.

Was a good move for me, well done Holmgren.

Cartsiephan* 03-10-2011 08:36 AM

Still would have preferred to keep Gagne on the expiring contract, but Homer's moves on the cap space were needed and Meszaros has been a nice depth acquisition.

BobbyClarkeFan16 03-10-2011 08:39 AM

I thought Holmgren could have received more for Gagne, but it was clear at the time that moving Gagne was nothing more than a salary dump. I will say this though - it would not surprise me in the off season if the Flyers did go after and sign Gagne. No, he won't get a 5 million dollar a year contract, but it's very possible he could get 2.5 to 3 million a year to come back and if he does, I could see putting him on a line with Richards and Versteeg.......

phillyfanatic 03-10-2011 08:54 AM

Loved it then, Love it know. Gagne was an injury prone 20 goal scorer at 5 million a year. Would I love to have Gagne on this team? Yes - at 2 million. He needed to be moved to allow us to improve our D, as simple as that.

RJ8812 03-10-2011 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 (Post 31559619)
I thought Holmgren could have received more for Gagne, but it was clear at the time that moving Gagne was nothing more than a salary dump. I will say this though - it would not surprise me in the off season if the Flyers did go after and sign Gagne. No, he won't get a 5 million dollar a year contract, but it's very possible he could get 2.5 to 3 million a year to come back and if he does, I could see putting him on a line with Richards and Versteeg.......

I would take Gagne back, but at no more than $3m

However, I don't think it's possible cap wise unless we move Carle or Coburn and I don't see Holmgren doing that

LEIFey 03-10-2011 09:19 AM

Moving Gagne sucks, but being able to fit Meszaros has been amazing, so it worked out. I really wish we could have gotten more for Simon, but with his NTC and his pricey contract, that's about as much as anyone could have hoped for.

JLHockeyKnight 03-10-2011 09:22 AM

Looking at the team now, they're way stronger than last year because they moved Gagne. No regrets with this move. If he can finds a way back next year for cheap to end his career as a Flyer I'd gladly welcome him back.

Jester 03-10-2011 09:23 AM

We could have fit Gagne and Meszaros and not lost any of the important parts to this team... we then would have had an expiring contract gone from the books going into next year. As opposed to the **** sandwich that is Walker's contract.

Shelley and Zherdev alone gets you more than half Gagne's salary... and there's no doubt in my mind come May, you'd much rather have Gagne on this team.

Cartsiephan* 03-10-2011 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 (Post 31559619)
I thought Holmgren could have received more for Gagne, but it was clear at the time that moving Gagne was nothing more than a salary dump. I will say this though - it would not surprise me in the off season if the Flyers did go after and sign Gagne. No, he won't get a 5 million dollar a year contract, but it's very possible he could get 2.5 to 3 million a year to come back and if he does, I could see putting him on a line with Richards and Versteeg.......

That is the thing right now, on defense they look very solid but the one area where they lack the depth is on the LW which is a key piece to Laviolette's gameplan.


Imagine going into the playoffs with this lineup of fwds?

HBL
JvR-Giroux-Carter
Gagne-Richards-Versteeg
Any combination of, Carcillo-Powe-Betts-Shelley-Nodl

JLHockeyKnight 03-10-2011 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEIFey (Post 31560099)
Moving Gagne sucks, but being able to fit Meszaros has been amazing, so it worked out. I really wish we could have gotten more for Simon, but with his NTC and his pricey contract, that's about as much as anyone could have hoped for.

In the end, since they waived Walker, we got exactly what we needed: Cap relief.

Cartsiephan* 03-10-2011 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 31560134)
We could have fit Gagne and Meszaros and not lost any of the important parts to this team... we then would have had an expiring contract gone from the books going into next year. As opposed to the **** sandwich that is Walker's contract.

And a bum in Zherdev.

Jester 03-10-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight (Post 31560143)
In the end, since they waived Walker, we got exactly what we needed: Cap relief.

He'll be back next year.

JLHockeyKnight 03-10-2011 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 31560168)
He'll be back next year.

Just depends on the numbers.

Z is gone, barring the cap goes up $2 million, that's $5.9 million to work with. Carcillo, Nodl, and Powe are RFA's, I'd keep Nodl and Powe. Leino will want at least $2.5 million. Unless they want to run with Bartulis, O'Donnell or Boynton will need to be signed.

Not saying it's doable, I think it is, just I don't think Gagne will be getting $5 million again, especially if the Flyers go deep in the playoffs (plus I don't know how bonuses are but if some roll over to next year, that'll effect it too).

I think they'll get it done.

Jester 03-10-2011 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight (Post 31560311)
Just depends on the numbers.

Z is gone, barring the cap goes up $2 million, that's $5.9 million to work with. Carcillo, Nodl, and Powe are RFA's, I'd keep Nodl and Powe. Leino will want at least $2.5 million. Unless they want to run with Bartulis, O'Donnell or Boynton will need to be signed.

Not saying it's doable, I think it is, just I don't think Gagne will be getting $5 million again, especially if the Flyers go deep in the playoffs (plus I don't know how bonuses are but if some roll over to next year, that'll effect it too).

I think they'll get it done.

I was talking about Walker and his idiotic contract.

I'll be shocked if Gagne is back next year.

JagerPuck 03-10-2011 09:40 AM

When they traded him my first thought was that it wouldnt be long until they resign him once his contract is up.
Then I tried to think of any player the FLyers have brought back in, and couldnt.

JLHockeyKnight 03-10-2011 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 31560344)
I was talking about Walker and his idiotic contract.

I'll be shocked if Gagne is back next year.

Oh. Well I sure as hell hope not. Although I can see it happening unless, like I said, they want to run with Bartulis.

Cartsiephan* 03-10-2011 09:47 AM

I know I have done this previously but here is another way to look at the moves Homer has made:

Steve Eminger & 2008 3rd Rounder (Jacob Deserres) Washington Capitals 2008 1st Rounder(John Carlson)

Matt Carle & San Jose Sharks’ 2009 3rd rounder (Simon Bertilsson) Tampa Bay Lightning Steve Eminger, Steve Downie and Tampa Bay’s 2009 4th rounder (previously acquired)

Andrej Meszaros Tampa Bay Lightning 2011 2nd Rounder


Reverse these deal and this is what they would have in the lineup today prior to the Versteeg deal and of course a lot of hypotheticals, but....:

Hartnell(4.2)-Briere(6.5)-Leino(.800)
Gagne(5.25)-Giroux(.822)-Carter(5.0)
JvR(1.654)-Richards(5.75)-Downie(1.85)
Carcillo(1.075)-Betts(.700)-Shelley(1.1)

= $34.701 for starting 9


Carlson(.846)-Pronger(4.921)
Timonen(6.333)-Coburn(3.2)
Meszaros(4.0)-O'Donnell(1.3)

= $20.6 for top 6 D

Boucher(.925)-Bobrovsky(1.75)

= $2.675


Total salary = 57.976, space for 13th fwd and 7th d is $1.424(Bartulis and Powe = $1.325)

Jester 03-10-2011 09:49 AM

The Eminger trade turned bad quickly... an then was exacerbated by the follow-up deals that were made to "fix" it.

What's really frustrating? Meszaros was available that summer...

BobbyClarkeFan16 03-10-2011 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 31560538)
The Eminger trade turned bad quickly... an then was exacerbated by the follow-up deals that were made to "fix" it.

What's really frustrating? Meszaros was available that summer...

I'll never understand the Eminger trade. I honestly thought the Flyers gave up on him too early because he was really starting to turn it around. As for Meszaros, not quite true that he was available. He was a restricted free agent that caught wind of what Tampa Bay was going to offer and he wanted the same contract from Ottawa, something Bryan Murray wasn't going to give.

GKJ 03-10-2011 10:13 AM

I had no problem with Gagne leaving, just what we got for him.

DUHockey9 03-10-2011 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight (Post 31560386)
Oh. Well I sure as hell hope not. Although I can see it happening unless, like I said, they want to run with Bartulis.

He's saying he will be back, like guaranteed. No one is going to trade for that contract. So we will have to waive him again, and I don't believe we can waive him until a certain point, so it will inhibit us to some degree. (As well as just merely counting as 1 of our 50 contracts.)

RJ8812 03-10-2011 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cartsiephan (Post 31560144)
And a bum in Zherdev.

who has scored more goals than Gagne with limited ice-time and worse line-mates

Cartsiephan* 03-10-2011 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 31560538)
The Eminger trade turned bad quickly... an then was exacerbated by the follow-up deals that were made to "fix" it.

What's really frustrating? Meszaros was available that summer...

The most frustrating part of the Eminger deal was that the rumor was Eminger was going to be available after the 7/1 date, something about a buyout or release, some loophole where he would have been a UFA I think??

Homer made the move because during the Caps series Eminger actually had a decent series, but he could have had him for nothing.

Cartsiephan* 03-10-2011 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ8812 (Post 31561054)
who has scored more goals than Gagne with limited ice-time and worse line-mates

Gagne had a slow start, injured, etc. I would still take Gagne over Zherdev even at the difference of $3.25mill. The hole is on the LW, Gagne is a perfect fit for Laviolette's game.

Jester 03-10-2011 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 (Post 31560843)
I'll never understand the Eminger trade. I honestly thought the Flyers gave up on him too early because he was really starting to turn it around. As for Meszaros, not quite true that he was available. He was a restricted free agent that caught wind of what Tampa Bay was going to offer and he wanted the same contract from Ottawa, something Bryan Murray wasn't going to give.

Ah, go back and read the paper reports. It was WIDELY reported that Meszaros was going to get dealt. Everyone knew he was available. I know this because I remember the discussion on this site concerning whether we should deal for him.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.