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-   -   How long can they stay down?? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=891302)

Kingjordan 03-15-2011 05:14 PM

How long can they stay down??
 
Was wondering how long can you keep players like Voynov, Hickey...and so on down for?

We have to UFA on D after this season. so they really wouldn't get a shot till 2013.

Can we keep them down for that long? ( Didn't Voynov say he would go back to Russia if he was not playing in LA? )

Do you see any changes to our D next season? (Trades)

Are they ready next season?

What do you see happening?

(P.S. I know this is a great problem to have....)

RonSwanson* 03-15-2011 05:17 PM

The team does carry more than 6 d-men. Of course, Drewiske and Harrold are holding down those extra spots for the moment. Harrold is UFA after this season.

The answer is that they *can* stay in the minors until they retire (assuming they keep re-signing). More likely, they would ask for a trade, bolt for Russia, or simply not re-sign with L.A./Manchester.

Kingjordan 03-15-2011 05:22 PM

yea but if you carry 7 one will be scratched and not playing whats the point.. keep them down to play.

But is there anything else they can gain by staying down?

DAkings20 03-15-2011 05:24 PM

Atleast if Voynov goes back home we own his rights.

RonSwanson* 03-15-2011 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingjordan (Post 31684019)
yea but if you carry 7 one will be scratched and not playing whats the point.. keep them down to play.

But is there anything else they can gain by staying down?

An appreciation for bus rides?

At least they get to play every day.

Whiskeypete 03-15-2011 05:44 PM

DL and Hex can keep them down as long as they are under contract.

a team will usually carry an extra D man and two forwards during the season.

over the summer i expect to see at minimum one trade among the D. i think it will center entirely around DL's assessment of VV and where he will land next season. i think this also revolves around if VV's ultimatum to LA about returning to RUS is real or not.

he is highly coveted by other teams and LA has been patiently awaiting his development.
-if VV is ready to make the line up then DL has 1 to 2 players he can move
-if VV is questionable (say 50/50) then he will either bounce back and forth from LA/MAN and the #6 spot will be a revolving door. this would result in only 1 D being moved.
-if VV isn't ready for LA, if he isn't seen as a 'higher upside' than AMart he gets shopped

Hickey and Muzzin are in the picture, but there has been so much discussion on VV's upside i think the others get left in the dust. like most top tier teams in the league my speculation is that Murray and DL want to have 3 solid PMD in the line up. AMart has brought us closer to this, but if they feel VV is close to Alex and ready for the NHL they may make this move.

DL imo at this point has the option of moving Wiskie and AMart, both NHL proven D men. will Dean move one or both of them, if he feels Voynov is ready for the jump. the concern with moving both is the loss of NHL experience in the #6 spot. is he and the team ready to take this leap of faith? AMart settled this spot down for the club this past season and as the expectations for the team rise they need stability here.

the kids....the logjam in MAN is a terrific problem to have. LA has Muzzin, VV, DesLauriers and Hickey at the top of the heap. all four are playing for one POSSIBLE spot in LA. the combo of DL, Hex, TMu, and Emerson have some decisions to make. do any of these four have the current ability to unseat AMart and Wiskie? is the upside of these guys make someone else a tradeable asset, or will they them self be seen as tradeable? don't forget that Forbort is still likely 2 seasons to go at ND if not 3 (3 will take him through his senior season).

i find it interesting the logjam that is building in net for LA isn't being discussed much. if Jones and Zatkoff's development continue it's going to bring the same in the net. JB seems to have settled into the NHL game and hopefully starts to push JQ. Jones has pushed past Z already in MAN and how soon will he start to push on JB?

no name 03-15-2011 05:47 PM

Hickey can stay down perminantly as far as I care. He's done absolutely nothing to seperate himself from undrafted and low round guys. I have not seen too many games of his this season but I just don't think he's applied his trade. He's felt he's earned a free ride in the past and now he's just not improving.

Muzzinga 03-15-2011 05:55 PM

im happy to keep Hickey down until the Scuds contract runs out, hopefully by then he will have been groomed into a stud

johnjm22 03-15-2011 06:10 PM

When Hickey initially came to the AHL he was very productive. He averaged a point per game, then got injured.

I still have full confidence in his abilities, but it looks like he needs a change of scenery.

KINGS17 03-15-2011 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no name (Post 31684535)
Hickey can stay down perminantly as far as I care. He's done absolutely nothing to seperate himself from undrafted and low round guys. I have not seen too many games of his this season but I just don't think he's applied his trade. He's felt he's earned a free ride in the past and now he's just not improving.

Really? People in the Kings' organization that watched the Hershey playoff series last season said he was the best player on the ice.

I don't get the Hickey hate. The guy could very well be a Rafalski-type player. BTW, check and see how long it took Rafalski to get to the NHL. Hickey doesn't suck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnjm22 (Post 31685069)
When Hickey initially came to the AHL he was very productive. He averaged a point per game, then got injured.

I still have full confidence in his abilities, but it looks like he needs a change of scenery.

Nah, he needs us to be patient and realize that he isn't the 2nd coming so he gets a chance to find his pro game. If he is traded we better get something we really need in return. For example I would not be opposed to trading him for a LW prospect of equal value.

TKFAN 03-15-2011 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 31685221)
Really? People in the Kings' organization that watched the Hershey playoff series last season said he was the best player on the ice.

I don't get the Hickey hate. The guy could very well be a Rafalski-type player. BTW, check and see how long it took Rafalski to get to the NHL. Hickey doesn't suck.



Nah, he needs us to be patient and realize that he isn't the 2nd coming so he gets a chance to find his pro game. If he is traded we better get something we really need in return. For example I would not be opposed to trading him for a LW prospect of equal value.

Unfortunately, the Hickey from the Hershey playoff series last season, is not the Hickey that has played this season.

fyrescorp 03-15-2011 06:43 PM

I don't think it is just the goalie or defenseman development that is overlooked, I think it's the fact that the Kings minor leagues system IS developing players. The logjam is a good problem to have and it is due to the fact the Kings system is developing their players.

Sydor25 03-15-2011 06:49 PM

I'm just happy that the Kings don't have to rush their prospects into the NHL right now. Most of the important players are signed long term at nice cap hits.

Defensemen just take time to develop.

Skebo 03-15-2011 07:05 PM

I see Muzzin as the next 7th defenseman for the Kings. He just seems like that sort of tweener guy. Just like Drewiske.
Both can play the game at the NHL level, but nothing about their game screams at the coach to get them much playing time.
I also liked the move to trade Tuebert, since he was just adding to the logjam.

Most Hickey hate, is really DL hate. DL took a stretch on that pick at #4 overall. A #4 overall pick from four years ago should have at least played a game in the NHL by now. Look at the list of guys drafted after Hickey and you will know where the Hickey hate comes from. It's not really Hickey's fault that DL took him at #4, but that's just how it worked out.

no name 03-15-2011 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 31685221)
Really? People in the Kings' organization that watched the Hershey playoff series last season said he was the best player on the ice.

I don't get the Hickey hate. The guy could very well be a Rafalski-type player. BTW, check and see how long it took Rafalski to get to the NHL. Hickey doesn't suck.



Nah, he needs us to be patient and realize that he isn't the 2nd coming so he gets a chance to find his pro game. If he is traded we better get something we really need in return. For example I would not be opposed to trading him for a LW prospect of equal value.

No Hickey hate here. Hickey has just regressed. Whether that has to do with injuries, logjam, or poor attitude , fact is he is not as effective on the ice and others have done more with less.

A lot of his issues have been caused by himself. His attitude about his lack of promotion followed by what fans and even his coach has called a lack of effort have caused him to have a sour image.

KINGS17 03-15-2011 07:49 PM

I haven't heard about the Hickey attitude problem. If it exists, the Kings have plenty of time for him to work it out down in Manchester.

Regarding taking Hickey at #4 overall, who are these great players that were drafted after Hickey? Remember Dean was looking for defensemen at the time.

johnjm22 03-15-2011 08:07 PM

Hextall once said that Hickey was "Trying too hard." That's the only criticism I've heard of TH by the organization. Hickey has a great attitude.

Holden Caulfield 03-15-2011 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnjm22 (Post 31690831)
Hextall once said that Hickey was "Trying too hard." That's the only criticism I've heard of TH by the organization. Hickey has a great attitude.

Heard lots of that from people that know Hickey. Players have told me he is a natural leader and has a great attitude. And he seems to be doing solidly on paper down in Manchester but I have not seen many games.

Whiskeypete 03-15-2011 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 31689927)
Regarding taking Hickey at #4 overall, who are these great players that were drafted after Hickey? Remember Dean was looking for defensemen at the time.

the only guys that stand out to me are Shattenkirk in R1, Alzner in R1 and Subban in R2 that have shown a good return at D. the remaining D men drafted don't stand out.

the fact he went after a D here as he stated and what has happened in terms of his development adds fuel to the fire of the 'always draft the BPA' theory. guys he could have had rather than Hickey....

Couture, Gagner, Pacioretty, Perron, Voracek.....all of them with over 50 GP in the NHL. ranging from 49 to 173 career NHL pts. all of them would have been a better return than what Hickey has provided.

Jungle Boy 03-15-2011 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 31685221)
Really? People in the Kings' organization that watched the Hershey playoff series last season said he was the best player on the ice.

I don't get the Hickey hate. The guy could very well be a Rafalski-type player. BTW, check and see how long it took Rafalski to get to the NHL. Hickey doesn't suck.



Nah, he needs us to be patient and realize that he isn't the 2nd coming so he gets a chance to find his pro game. If he is traded we better get something we really need in return. For example I would not be opposed to trading him for a LW prospect of equal value.

:handclap::handclap::handclap:

Jungle Boy 03-15-2011 11:25 PM

I would trade VV for a late 1st round pick and draft a LW or a tough, mean defensive dman.

reading the ISS top 30 today I liked 3 names:

Sven Bartschi LW (1st rd)
Justin Sefton D (2nd rd pick)
Frank Musil (1st round pick)

Imagine our d in the future:

Doughty - Forbot
JJ - Sefton

better than it already is.

Defgarden 03-16-2011 10:14 AM

Remember when we had nobody?

Jungle Boy 03-16-2011 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defgarden (Post 31702798)
Remember when we had nobody?

not too long ago

etherialone 03-16-2011 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskeypete (Post 31696619)
the only guys that stand out to me are Shattenkirk in R1, Alzner in R1 and Subban in R2 that have shown a good return at D. the remaining D men drafted don't stand out.

the fact he went after a D here as he stated and what has happened in terms of his development adds fuel to the fire of the 'always draft the BPA' theory. guys he could have had rather than Hickey....

Couture, Gagner, Pacioretty, Perron, Voracek.....all of them with over 50 GP in the NHL. ranging from 49 to 173 career NHL pts. all of them would have been a better return than what Hickey has provided.

Then what Hickey has provided to date.

Hickey is 22 yo.

The average age that dmen typically start breaking into the NHL is 24 and establishing themselves as everyday players is 25.

JJ and DD are really rare exceptions in so many ways, not that there aren't other examples but how many of them play at the same level as those two? I can't think of one really.

That said Hickey's injury troubles are what kept him from getting his shot earlier and now he is going to have to work harder then ever before to make the Kings. I see him becoming a solid NHLer and haven't heard any pro's saying anything different.

Its an issue of when as opposed to if from what I understand.

The thing with prospects is we won't know until they get their legitimate shot.

wabwat 03-16-2011 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnjm22 (Post 31690831)
Hextall once said that Hickey was "Trying too hard." That's the only criticism I've heard of TH by the organization. Hickey has a great attitude.


and for the most part, that was reiterated at the breakfast. it was basically said that Hickey has been trying too hard to live up to his draft position.


...and i STILL think Hickey would have cracked Washington's defense before Alzner did.


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